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Tithing email and replies
HI RAY
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFO. I WONDERED IF I ONLY BELIEVED THAT TITHING IS
NOT FOR US NOW, AND [IF TITHING IS] NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.
IN GALATIANS, IT SAYS WE ARE NOT UNDER THE "OLD LAW." IS THE "OLD LAW"
[REFERRING TO] ANY LAWS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT? AND DOES [THIS] NOT [ALSO] REFER
TO TITHING IN THE OLD TESTAMENT?
I WONDERED WHY CHURCH AND PASTORS DAWN SO MUCH ON MONEY, YOU KNOW JESUS
NEVER MENTIONED TITHES WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH AS FAR AS WE KNOW FROM THE BIBLE
AND ALSO THE PROPHETS DIDN'T ALSO.
MY MOM IS DISABLED AND LIVES OFF DISABILITY. I TELL HER NOT TO WORRY IF SHE
DOESN'T HAVE HER FULL TITHE. BUT SHE STILL DOES [TITHE] AND WILL GO
WITHOUT FOR HER AND MY BROTHER.
SHE IS VERY DISTURBED NOW AFTER READING ALL YOUR INFO. WHERE SHE IS
ATTENDING CHURCH NOW YOU MUST TITHE IF YOU [WANT TO] DO ANYTHING IN THE
CHURCH.
SHE IS SCARED THAT SHE WILL BE CURSED IF SHE DOESN'T TITHE OR RECEIVE
BLESSINGS. WHEREAS THAT IS WHAT SHE HAS BEEN TAUGHT. PLEASE SEND ME
FEEDBACK ON THAT SITUATION.
ALSO SHE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW DO YOU GIVE TO GET A BLESSING, AND HOW
MUCH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH,
ELIZABETH
[Ray Replies]
Dear Elizabeth:
Thank you for your email and comments.
Let me tell you something straight out, as God as my Judge and source of
knowledge and inspiration. If Jesus Christ were to enter a convening of pastors
who teach that people on DISABILITY are to TITHE (10%) of their disability
checks to these pastors, you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them! If
you think Jesus berated the hypocritical Pharisees in Matthew 23, I don't think
you would have seen anything yet!
Listen to Jesus' own words:
"WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! For you
tithe of mint and anise and cummin [little herbs of the garden]
, and have OMITTED the weightier matters of the law, JUDGMENT, MERCY,
AND FAITH..." (Mat. 23:23).
WOW! There it is, Elizabeth. Tithing was NOTHING to Jesus compared to
properly judging [taking care of], MERCY [where is the mercy in taking WIDOW'S
MITES?], and FAITH [these hypocrites don't HAVE ANY FAITH, or they would trust
God for their ministries and NOT WIDOWS WHO ARE DISABLED]..."
Read Verse 14:
"WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! For you
DEVOUR WIDOWS' HOUSES..."!!!
It is UNSCRIPTURAL EVIL to place these burdens on the shoulders of fragile
widows!! Verse 4:
"For they bind HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be born, and lay them on
men's [AND WIDOW'S]
shoulders; but THEY themselves will NOT move them with one of their
fingers."
Have you mother ask her pastor if God demands ten percent of her welfare
check? As him if she will LOOSE HER BLESSINGS FROM GOD if she does not
give ten percent of her disability checks to him? It is because of people
just like you and your mother, Elizabeth, that I write these papers on God's
truths, condemning these evil practices of many charlatans in the church today.
There is a minister on TBN that I have seen off and on over the weeks,
months and years (I seldom ever listen an entire plea-for-money sermon), but I
have NEVER ONCE heard this man speak on ANYTHING except becoming blessed and
prospering by sending HIM your money. He has a huge ministry that goes around
the world. I can't tell you how ill it makes me to watch him pronounce his
blessings and cursings on his listeners for either giving or not giving him
their money. And yet, I have NEVER heard him or any other prosperity preacher
say that if one is in poverty or debt, to not feel obligated to send them
money. In fact, they will tell you that if you are in debt, can't pay all your
bills, don't have enough to buy food and live on, that THIS IS THE TIME TO SEND
THEM YOUR MONEY FOR SURE!!! God have mercy on their wretched souls. They
need to repent and start obeying and trusting GOD!
In the book of Acts when there were widows who's needs were not being
met, ALL TWELVE APOSTLES called for the elders of the church to appoint those
who were filled with the spirit and wisdom to TAKE CARE OF THESE WIDOWS
IMMEDIATELY!
Paul told Timothy to HONOR the widows who were widows indeed.
Elizabeth, even in ancient Israel if a man had but NINE cows or sheep
(many poverty-stricken people around the world would have been thankful for but
ONE milking cow to feed their children), God did not consider such a one
prosperous enough to TITHE AT ALL!! A man with only nine cows did NOT
tithe his cattle to God. God IS merciful.
Here's what you mother can do to receiving BLESSINGS from God: Be
kind! Show love to everyone! Be thankful! Pray for others! She can do all
theses things from a wheelchair or bed and GOD WILL BLESS HER, I GUARANTEE IT!
May God give your mother the courage to trust God directly for all her
needs and not to worry about the needs of greedy pastors. They don't NEED your
mother's disability checks! Trust me, THEY DON'T NEED IT! Let them trust God
for a change and not the mammon extracted and extorted from the welfare checks,
disability checks, and Social Security checks of WIDOWS!!
God bless you and your mother, Elizabeth! If your mother has needs
that aren't being met by her meager income, take her needs to the church. If
they turn you away--CALL ME.
Grace and peace to you and your family.
Sincerely in the service of our Lord,
Ray
Hello,
My name is Sam, I am a deacon and adult Sunday school teacher in the
Assemblies of God. Although probably not for long after the 40 plus page
article on '' tithing'' that I gave to my pastor.
I found your other web-site, or more accurately your ''main site''. First, I
read your article on the tithe, told my wife that I wished I had found it
earlier.
I believe one should never be afraid to ask the question ''why'' ? The faith
God has instilled in me over the years can take the test. My beliefs are strong
enough to be tested and if not then they change.
After years of listening to so many confusing teaches, I prayed this simple
prayer, God I don't know what I should believe, this man teaches this and that
man teaches that (something different) WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE? Not what
I wanted to believe but what God wants me to believe. Ever since my life has
changed.
For years I've been studying the Jewish roots of the Christian faith, the
word-of-faith heresy and many other areas. I've started to read some of your
other articles. The only thing I've told my wife so far is, ''If what this man
is teaching is true the implications are staggering.''
All I can honestly say for now is you got my intention and my interest. Plus
I enjoy your humor.
Well my son wants me to play with him {10} so I gotta go.
Your brother in Christ,
Sam
When I was 12, my father had left us ....our house had been destroyed in a
horrible storm, he paid no child support.
My mother worked 3 jobs and me and my brother picked up grocery bags of
pine cones out of peoples' yards. We got paid a dime for each grocery bag we
filled. I guess people didn't want them there when they mowed the grass. Long
story short (maybe), we gave our dimes to our mother to help out.
We attended a lovely little church with many nice people. There seems to
be 1 or 2 who attempt to spoil the bunch! Momma gave me and my brother 5 cents
each to put in the offering and she would give a quarter.
One morning when she put her quarter in, the person taking up the
offering just stopped. In front of everybody he started making fun and
criticizing my mother's faith in God because she only gave a quarter and my
brother and I only gave our ten cents. My mother left crying. I wonder
sometimes if that man ever thinks of that. But I KNOW that God knew our hearts
and circumstances and used that little bit for something great. Thanks for
indulging me! Tara
Just read your paper. It makes sense. One question, how is a church to pay
the bills (elec. water,gas, rent,teaching books etc.) I have a bible study
group in one of my rentals. And there are bills to be met. We are not a church
so to speak, with a tax exempt status and all, but we do study the Word of God
every Sunday morning and Wednesday night.
There are 23 of us. We did not like the way things were going in the church
we were attending, so we started our own church so to speak. We have been
tithing, and holding on to the money, but don't really know what to do with it.
We pay the utilities and buy teaching books etc. No one gets a salary. I'm not
a preacher, but do lead the study group. Looking forward to hearing from
you.
I just got a computer, so I'm learning how to use it.
Sincerely Chas
[Ray replies]
Dear Mr. [omitted]:
Thank you for your e-mail. You are brave souls!
You can all contribute money for meeting expenses of your group, that is
no problem. Just DON'T TEACH TITHING AS A BINDING LAW. Everyone is free to give
according as God has prospered him. Keep your expenses low and there show
be no problems with people wondering where the money is going. Besides,
tithing had to do with agricultural products, and it is hard to run a modern
organization on radishes and tomatoes. Keep a budget, let the expenses be
known to all, let everyone contribute. God bless your study group!
Sincerely,
Ray
[Another email from Chas]
L. Ray,
Hello, I am writing again to ask you about 1 Corinth. 16:2. What is Paul
saying here? You have got me thinking!!!
I talked to some of the men in our Bible Study group, and this is one of the
questions that came up. Is he not talking about tithing?
Thanks for your time.
Chas
[Ray replies]
Dear Chas:
Thank you for your question.
NO! - I Cor. 16 is not speaking about tithing!
There was a famine in Judea and so Paul out of loving concern for the
saints in Jerusalem took up a collection of food and necessities to be taken up
to Jerusalem when He came to them.
"Now concerning the COLLECTION..."
Tithing was never called a "collection" it was called a "tithe."
"...for the SAINTS..."
God did not institute a law of tithing for "the saints." Levites received
the tithe, not "the saints."
"...even as I prescribe..."
This is PAUL'S prescription, NOT THE LAW OF MOSES!
"...to the churches of GALATIA..."
This was not a law of tithing that would have been in force on ALL THE
CHURCHES EVERYWHERE, but only Galatia and the Corinthians.
"On ONE of the sabbaths..."
This was not a regular collection of tithes, but a SPECIAL collection for
the destitute saints in Jerusalem. They didn't do this every week, but rather
on "ONE of the sabbaths..."
"...let each of you lay aside by himself in store that in which he
should be prospered..."
Notice that it was NOT a tithe, it was not fulfilling a law, and only those
who were prospered were to give.
"...that NO COLLECTIONS MAY BE OCCURRING THEN, WHENEVER I MAY
COME."
Paul didn't want to wait around when he came for people to start gathering
things up for the saints in Jerusalem. He wanted everything collected and ready
to go as soon as Paul got there. This obviously was not a collection of
MONEY!!!
It is just amazing to me how people will grasp at straws to try and
sustain their heretical teaching. I have already received a half-dozen e-mails
quoting Paul saying not the muzzle the threshing floor ox, etc., as supposed
proofs of tithing. TOTAL NONSENSE! These poor people are fighting the word of
God. They do not have a LOVE OF THE TRUTH. It is so sad. The Scriptures are
just not that complicated. Paul never taught tithing to the Gentiles.
Paul never collected tithes from the Gentiles.
See if this answer will help your group understand.
Sincerely in Christ's service,
Ray
My wife and I just read your fine article. After doing some research
ourselves we were concerned about tithing. I've recently lost my job and
money has been tight, yet we were still tithing. I was a bit angry to see
our preacher and his wife living very, very, well when the church, according to
him and others, is hurting financially.
Your article is one of the most well thought out and documented I have ever
read. It has opened our eyes. We thank you. I would enjoy reading
any other articles you have written.
Jason
Dear Minister Smith,
First of all I want to thank you for standing for the truth about
tithing.
I use to be a titheaholic. I gave up my home thinking I was going to be
blessed. I ended up tithing my way to a shelter, and The church I was in
dropped me off At Salvation Army. After that I quit tithing and now I give to
the poor.
Months ago I downloaded your article and I was impressed that some one knows
the truth and is honest.
Tithing is food not money but certain ministers twist scriptures out of
context. The wealthiest men give out of their hearts so they can get a tax
relief, however, Proverbs 22 verse 22 says rob not the poor for he is poor.
Tithing ministers usually target poor people like welfare moms etc.
Thank you again for telling the truth.
Dr. Ed
Ray,
I will e-mail you thoroughly later if you want to respond to me.what did the
people do in Acts when they sold their money and laid it at the apostles
feet?
How did the people tithe to God when they gave money to the Levitical
priests after all they are priests? not God.
Why did Abraham tithe to Melchisedek ( Hebrews 7) when it says clearly that
he is not a Levite but yet in doing so Abraham gave to God?
Why does the Word say ministers should live of the gospel?
Why do you think Jesus taught on giving so much?
The person who was poor and didn't give was held accountable in one parable
and another person a rich young ruler did not give and was held
accountable?
Do you think the example of Jacob means that we are not called to tithe or
do you think it means we are called to tithe of our increase which is what
Jacob did? Most of us have paychecks every week or every two weeks?
That is increase.
I am not coming down hard on you but I think you need to read the scriptures
again and asks the Lord to open your heart to the truth. You may have
been burnt by ministers giving false teaching but that does not meaning tithing
is unbiblical.
Jesus also tells us that if we refuse to give unto his servants than we have
done it unto him. There is a concept in the Bible that everything we do for
each other or against each other that we have done it unto the Lord. I
understand your anger with false teaching but you should really think about
examining the Word again. Be honest with yourself about the attitude of your
heart. Remember, Jesus died on the cross for you and he loves you very much.
God says if you seek the truth you will find it but you must seek it without
hating others. Everyone will be judged.
Perhaps tithing is not just about money but about all things we possess
including our money. They laid money at the apostles feet. Look again at all
things before you jump at a few scriptures. It is okay to be wrong and it is
okay to be right. But if God wants us to tithe and I believe he wants more than
that, he will hold us accountable for that. If he does not than we will
still be blessed by giving. We cannot lose when we give to the Lord. This is a
spiritual truth.
N
[Ray replies]
Dear Nameless:
Thank you for you e-mail and comments. I have prayerfully considered what
you have suggested for THOUSANDS OF HOURS and still conclude that that it is
UNSCRIPTURAL TO TITHE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT!
First of all you TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY are in error when you lump
"tithing" with "giving." They are NOT one and the same! They do no LUMP!
"Tithing" was a mandatory LAW of the Old Covenant. There was nothing voluntary
about it. Paul plainly tells us that "giving" should be voluntary, from the
heart, according as God has prospered us. There is NO TITHING IN PAUL's
TEACHINGS TO THE NATIONS! That's for sure.
You suggest that I should not just "jump on a few verses." Excuse me, but
I gave EVERY SCRIPTURE ON TITHING IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE BIBLE!
Absolutely nothing you have said in your email has anything to do with
New Testament believers being under a legal obligation to tithe ten percent of
their salaries in the form of money! Money is a non-tithable commodity! Anyone
who gave money to support any effort of the New Testament ministry, was NOT
tithing!!! And furthermore, I believe you know that. If you had even ONE
scripture in the New Testament to support tithing today, I believe you would
have given it to me.
Say did you ever notice that when Paul justified his ministry and anyone
else's ministry under the New Covenant, he did NOT use the an example of
TITHING, but rather the "MUZZLING OF THRESHING FLOOR OX?" Did you notice
that? Ox's get FOOD AND SHELTER, not MONEY AND YACHTS! (Sorry, that was
an exaggeration [only slightly] and certainly should not be applied to most
modern tithe collectors). FOOD AND SHELTER--NOT $$$$$$MONEY!
Don't get me wrong, I believe that Ministers of the Gospel SHOULD GET
MONEY. But not in the form of "tithing." Tithing is NOT a New Covenant command,
nor was money tithable in the Old Covenant. I think giving money to meet the
needs of the church is a fine thing to do. However, I don't see that anyone
needs to LIMIT his contributions to only 10%!
You state, "Perhaps tithing is not just about money..." No, it's NOT
ABOUT MONEY AT A-L-L!! Tithing is about produce and farm products. Fisherman
were not obligated to tithe FISH. Basket weavers were not obligated to tithe
BASKETS. Miners were not obligated to tithe GOLD.
You suggest that I need to examine myself and my attitude, etc. That I am
ANGRY. That I should seek God's truth and stop HATING others, etc. You assume
quite a lot to yourself, Nameless! You do quite a lot of judging about
things you are totally ignorant of! You assumed that I have NOT SCRIPTURALLY
STUDIED TITHING whereas those who ILLEGALLY AND FRAUDULENTLY EXTORT TITHES FROM
THE PEOPLE APPARENTLY HAVE STUDIED THE SCRIPTURES ON TITHING? I am NOT
angry about the subject of tithing. It is of very little interest to me. I only
wrote the article because so many had requested it.
What really does make me angry, Nameless, is when men like Dr. Kennedy
and John Hagee get on international television and tell MILLIONS of people that
our Loving Heavenly Father is going to TORTURE BY FIRE, LITTLE BOYS AND LITTLE
GIRLS AND PREGNANT WOMEN AND MOST OF THE HUMAN RACE THAT HAS EVER LIVED, IN A
HELLHOLE OF DEMONIC INSANITY, WITHOUT WATER AND WITHOUT HOPE, FOR ALL ETERNITY!
And Mr. Hagee says, "It's justice." And Dr. Kennedy says, "Hell is FAIR."
THAT makes me angry, but not tithing. Just one person being tortured by fire
for all eternity is a greater sin than ALL THE EVILS AND SATANIC, VILE,
DEMENTED, PERVERTED SINS OF THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD
COMBINED! That makes me angry.
Again, thanks for your comments. Without hundreds of emails such as
yours, I would consider my web site less than successful. The truths of
God really "get to" people who are hostile to His plan of Salvation for all
mankind. I hope that you will reconsider your attitude toward me and
God's truths.
Sincerely, in Christ's service,
Ray
Hello Mr. Smith,
I enjoyed your article on tithing and have often wondered and gone back
and forth about this subject. I really want this settled once and for all.
Please pray for me.
There was one scripture in the old testament that you left out and was
wondering if you could comment on it.
It is Proverbs 3:9 -10
I know it deals again with "increase" but does state "firstfruits." What
exactly is firstfruits and can you give a practical, contemporary example of
increase?
Thank you.
Grace and peace,
Dan
[Ray replies]
Dear Dan:
Thank you for your e-mail and questions.
I don't think anyone could give you an exact answer as to what
constituted an "increase." I do know it is wrong to teach as TBN does, for
example, that poor people who can hardly afford food and utilities, must pay
TBN ten percent of their welfare or social security checks. Social security
checks and welfare checks are NOT 'INCREASES.'
One scripture that gives me a clue to this "increase" business is the way
God taught tithing on cattle. If a farmer had but nine sheep, let's say, he did
NOT tithe on his sheep. He had to have at least TEN before he would be expected
to give ONE to the Levites. I believe the same principle applied to ALL FARM
PRODUCE, however, the Scriptures do not delineate each commodity.
The "firstfruits" were the Spring harvest. The very very first of the
firstfruits was the "waveshief offering." Jesus Christ is represented by the
symbol of the wavesheif -- He was the FIRST to be resurrected to immortality.
Then the Spring "firstfruits" was representative of Pentecost where a larger
number are represented, name the CHURCH. And the last festival in the Holy
Calendar was The Feast of Tabernacles which represented the Fall Harvest
followed by the Last Great Day of the Feast, showing that ALL MANKIND WILL BE
BOUGHT INTO THE FOLD.
Paul teaches us (Gentile Christians) that "as you are prospered" is the
guide to giving. Not tithing, not percentages, but from the heart, according to
how much God has prospered us.
Hope that helps a little.
Sincerely,
Ray
Dear Ray:
I am friends with Elizabeth who wrote you about her disabled mother. I
applaud your answer to her. We have another question though because we also
have been taught sow your seed (money) and expect the 30, 60, 100 fold return
on your harvest and to name your seed. How do you see this teaching that
is spreading across America? (Example: We can give a vacuum cleaner to someone
and call it a new car.)
As we were discussing this afternoon I thought the only way I can justify
that teaching is like this:
- We get a 30 fold return on money we sow when we are forced under
compulsion or demand by a pastor that is forcing us to give HIM money.
We gave it as if we were giving it God not man in our own mind so God gave us
a return in spite of ourselves.
- We get a 60 fold return when we are doing it out of obligation because it
is what we have been taught and think it is what the law (OT law) requires.
God honors our ignorance and gives us a return because he likes to bless us
and he feels sorry for us because of our stupidity.
- We get a 100 fold return when we give exactly what God tells us to give,
to the person that God tells us to give it to at the time God tells us to
give it. With a cheerful heart.
Needless to say that is stretching it a great deal to make it fit. But ... I
wondered what your thoughts were on that teaching because I have been a
Christian 22 years and never heard this theory of naming seed and getting 100
fold return until about 3 years ago.
Plus I have never met a farmer in my life that did not believe when he
planted the crop that he would have a good harvest if he took care of his
crop. But, sometimes he does sometimes he does not depends on a lot of
other factors besides his belief system.
I think it is just as easy to believe that if I have something that
someone else needs and I give it to them then when I need something God
will see that my need is met by someone else or see that I have the money to
buy what I need for myself.
Thank you for your teaching on tithing I have always believed that the
only way to give anything is when you see a need and are moved with compassion
to meet that need and do. But I am not a scholar just a wife and mom.
Be blessed,
Cindy
[Ray replies]
Dear Cindy:
Thank you for your questions and comments.
ALL of the hocus pocus of modern religion designed to trick what they
consider to be,the dumb sheep into believing they will get rich if only they
give all their money to some charlatan preacher are a spirit of ANTICHRIST!
Nowhere in the Bible is there a formula specifically designed for poor
people to become wealthy people -- materialistically speaking. It is all
nonsense! Don't be fooled.
Notice Matt. 13:3-9 where 30, 60 , and 100 fold is mentioned. First, it
is a PARABLE. This is NOT literal. It has NOTHING to do with actual planting of
seed or farming. It is an analogy showing a SPIRITUAL truth based on a physical
analogy of sewing literal seed. We have absolute Scriptural proof of this
beginning in Verse 18 where Jesus explains the meaning of this "sowing of
seed."
"At everyone hearing the word of the kingdom and not understanding,
coming is the wicked one and snatching what has been SOWN IN HIS
HEART [not in a field of dirt]
."
He then speaks of God's Word reaching people with different levels of
understanding and acceptance of God's Word. Hence, "beside the road," "the
rocky places," "in the thorns," etc. Verse 23,
"Now he who is being sown on the IDEAL EARTH [a humble and
open HEART]
this is he who is hearing the WORD and UNDERSTANDING, who by all
means is bearing fruit [SPIRITUAL FRUIT, not money, cars, or sugar
cane]
, and is producing; these indeed, a hundred, yet these sixty, yet
these thirtyfold."
There it is. It's all about SPIRITUAL growth and understanding, not PHYSICAL
wealth and materialism!
Hope that helps you. When you give, give from the heart with NO
THOUGHT of gaining back a huge reward or fortune. You said pretty much the same
thing in you concluding remark. It's ALL SPIRIT. It's ALL ABOUT THE HEART--not
money.
God be with you.
Sincerely,
Ray
Glad I found your website, these are some of the same things I've been
studying for quite sometimes, but you have made it a lot easy for me to
understand. This is really deep for some people to accept, even my wife. I been
telling her this for awhile, but she sometimes she can't seem to grasp it all,
in which I understand, because it took a lot of studying for myself.
I wish we had teachers like you on television, to debunk some of the
junk that's on these so-call Christian television. Why, are those who speak the
truth are seldom heard?
Well God bless you brother and keep this site, because I'm still
studying.
Thank You.
[Ray replies]
Thank you for your comments.
Why isn't there anyone on TV teaching the truth? MONEY!
Those who know and teach the truth have no money. And they will NOT
FRAUDULENTLY extort it from the public.
Those who learn that tithing is not a required law under the New Covenant,
usually stop giving as well as tithing. They will tithe (ten percent) of their
salaries to a charlatan, but when they learn the truth, they usually give
nothing in support of those teaching the truth.
However, the REAL reason is that God does not want His truths published
worldwide on TV. At least, not yet.
May God continue to guide you into His perfect will for your life.
Sincerely,
Ray
I do not know who you are but I do know that those that teach against God's
word will be judged accordingly.
I am a minister and yes tithing is scriptural. You sir are in grave error
and are trying to circumvent the work of God through His church.
New Testament tithing is superior to Old Testament tithing, because now
that man has been set free of sin he gives through his heart and gives more as
witnessed here in the book of Acts.
ACT 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one
claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything
they had.
33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of
the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.
34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who
owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales
35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he
had need.
36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas
(which means Son of Encouragement),
37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the
apostles' feet.
People were so filled with the presence of the Holy Spirit that they sold
lands and property and brought it all and gave it all to the New Testament
church.
Jesus taught about the human heart and what causes it to respond to
giving to God in: MAR 12:41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the
offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple
treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.
42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth
only a fraction of a penny.
43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth,
this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.
44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put
in everything - all she had to live on."
It is a standard church practice to give offerings, as was recorded here
as Jesus was sitting right down by the place where the offerings were being
taken.
He taught about the fact that some people give freely out of the wealth
and others have learned to give freely out of the sacrifice of their last few
pennies.
Tithing is from your gross income as it is the first fruits, EXO
23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the
house of the LORD thy God.
In the old Testament man was required to bring in the whole first harvest
quit frankly that was one third of the yearly harvest, it was beyond 10%.
In the book of EXO 22:29 God said: "Do not hold back offerings from
your granaries or your vats. "You must give me the firstborn of your sons.
God was teaching man to be willing to give everything to Him and that
even included the most valuable possession of all a mans own son.
GEN 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and
wine. He was priest of God Most High,
19 and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most
High, Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into
your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
From this point on in biblical history it was established for God's
people to give 10% as Abram who became Abraham gave.
You seem to work very hard at trying to undo what God has established, in
His Holy Word. I feel very sorry for you, because you will stand before the God
of the universe and He will judge you for you sin.
Repent of this grave error in your life and find your salvation in a
grace that is still there for you if you will take off the blinders that the
devil has put over your heart.
Sincerely Pastor Mike S.
[Ray replies]
Pastor Mike S:
Maybe you need to repent of your "grave error" Pastor S!
If you did not actually READ my paper on tithing, how are you qualified
to ridicule it? If you did read it how is it that you totally MISSED the
whole section of "GIVING FROM THE HEART?" Did you not read where I said
that "God LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER?"
In the early church when then sold possessions to give to the poor and
share among other members, this was NOT TITHING! How pray tell do you get
"tithing" out of "free will OFFERINGS?" It is YOU, Pastor S, who are in
error. And no, you are wrong, ancient Israel was NOT commanded to give ONE
THIRD of their yearly harvest!
You say that New Testament believers are "free to give from their
hearts." THAT'S not tithing, Pastor S, tithing was a MANDATORY LAW!
There was NO 'free will' about it.
Do you have any possessions that you claim to be your own, Pastor
S? A house? A Car? A watch? Furniture? A checking account? Clothing? Do
you? Because if you ever slip up and claim anything to belong to YOU, then you
are a hypocrite as you stated they had NO POSSESSIONS that they claimed to be
their own!
People email me daily asking how the local congregations should be
financed. And I tell them. If there is a salary to be paid, a utility bill to
be paid, or any other legitimate expense -- PAY IT! Contribute money to PAY IT!
One doesn't need to "tithe" to "pay a bill."
Me thinks that you, Pastor S, are too quick to condemn others [namely me]
over matters that you know virtually nothing about.
May God grant you a spirit of humility and discernment over matters that
are at present too high for you.
Sincerely,
Ray
Dear Sir:
My husband and I have given thousands of dollars to our local church. They
teach that the tithe should be given to the local church and ONLY the local
church. We have given offerings above and beyond the tithe to missionaries from
our church and others, and to various ministries World-Wide on a regular basis.
We are generous people and give lovingly -- but lately it has been bothering me
to give so much to the church.
I have felt so guilty about it. My husband doesn't agree with me. He thinks
that because I am the main income source in our family, that I am becoming
selfish with my salary.
We survived many years on less than $25,000.00 (his salary as a skilled
tradesman in the South) when our oldest son was critically ill. I did not work.
God has always blessed us with joy and contentment. He gave our son back to us
healthy and whole after a long and serious illness. We have been married 10
years and I went back to work last year full time. I make much more than what
my husband can make here. I am well educated and skilled in technology--also
gifts from God over the years.
My point is that we are just now buying our first home. It is over 30 years
old and in need of much repair. We are doing everything ourselves to try to
save, while continuing to give the tithe plus to our local home church. Once we
thought that God wanted us to give $4,000.00 to help missionaries build a
church in Romania. We approached our pastor to seek counsel about it, and he
assured us that we were wrong, that God wanted us to give that amount to our
local church to help with the new ($1.7 million building). We did it because we
trusted our pastor, we were afraid to NOT give after we had asked him about it
and received his counsel. We were OK with cheerfully giving that money, but I
always thought that we were supposed to give it to the missionaries in
Romania.
Almost all of our pastors have large families, and they all homeschool all
of their children with the latest greatest home curriculums on the market. (The
senior pastor has eight children and his wife has never had to work outside the
home). We send our children to the public school and are looked down on because
of it -- but we can't afford a private school, even with the dual income. If I
stay home to homeschool, we'll be back to $26,500.00 salary for a family of
four with a mortgage. ;-(
The pastors all have large new homes, a couple of them have built-in
swimming pools in their yards, they have nice cars and minivans, their children
dress in the best of clothes and have music and dance lessons galore.
It has been bothering me for a while now, that we couldn't even afford cable
TV until this year (2002). We only have two children, and have been
accustomed to buying our clothes in thrift shops over the years. Our kids have
never had the opportunity for music or dance or even extracurricular sports.
There was just never any extra money for those things.
There are many families in our local church that hardly have enough to even
get by on monthly. I don't know if they tithe or not -- if they don't, then
they are swallowing a whole lot of guilt every week! Again, God is ever
faithful. He has blessed us with this home of our own and me with a good paying
job etc...
I am terrified that my resentment will lead to bitterness and cause problems
in my own household/marriage. I don't want to "buck the system" but this
is an issue I can no longer conform to accepting peacefully. I am troubled by
the seeming unfairness/unequal standards of living for God's children here. My
husband has been in this church over 20 years. This is where he grew up in the
Lord and has been taught that the Lord wants us to "test" Him in the tithe, so
He can pour out His blessings on us. We have always tithed, so it appears that
we are indeed blessed because of the tithe. A result of our "testing God."
Please clarify the tithe issue, when it comes to the local "home"
church. We do not give to televangelists and rarely to direct mail
ministry campaigns. This is the teaching of the modern Protestant, evangelical
church as far as I can tell. It has been the same teaching in most of the
churches I have visited around here. Please write to me about this.
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.
Sincerely,
K.
[Ray replies]
Dear K.:
I can certainly appreciate your situation. There is no doubt but that God
has blessed you for desiring to give so that others will hear of God. That is a
noble gesture.
However, there is NOTHING Scriptural that demands you pay TEN PER CENT of
you salaries to a local church or any other church. Tithing is part of
the Old Covenant dispensation of CONDEMNATION and DEATH! (II Cor. 3:7-8).
Modern ministers love this old law of the flesh even if they hate God's
spiritual laws of the New Covenant. The "Love of Money" is a hall mark in
identifying the pastors of Babylon the Great. God says "Come out of her my
people and be not partkers of her sins, that you be not partakers of her
plagues." I have found that when a minister will teach one false doctrine, he
is apt to teach more false doctrines.
But it's up to you, I can't decide for you or your husband. It appears to
me, however, that you tithe partly because you fear God if you don't. You
should "GIVE" and not "TITHE." If you your giving equals ten percent or
not is not the issue. Paul taught to give as God has prospered you.
Ten percent of $25K when one has a large family, brings one pretty close to the
poverty level. Be sure you take care of your children and family first.
It appears that your pastor is doing okay. He probably won't go hungry anytime
soon.
What ever you do, GET RID OF THE GUILT! I prefer to give money to
the homeless and hungry on the streets.
Sincerely,
Ray
I just wanted to thank you for enlightening me on the topic of tithing.
We recently moved from Texas to Georgia. Our preacher in Texas
preached that tithing was unscriptural and giving should be from the
heart. However, when we moved to Georgia, the preacher at the church we
attend preached a sermon on how you must tithe in order to be blessed by
God.
I have thought about this all week and prayed that God would somehow show me
the truth about tithing. When I went to my computer and put in the word
tithe and clicked on "search", yours was the first website that popped up.
I read every word and now feel that I know the Truth.
Again, thank you, and may God bless your ministry.
Carrie
Hi,
I just read your article on tithes and offerings. I don't have a
question but want to encourage you in your work. What you said is true
and I have had some first hand experiences with some of these
'preachers'. I thought you may like to add this to your section of these
'preacher's tactics'.
About seven or so years ago my dad was diagnosed with two terminal bone
diseases. Our entire family was devastated. One late night I was
watching television and a 'preacher' came on (Peter Popoff). He gave a
phone # and said that if anyone had a prayer request for healing to call.
Well, I called and a prayer operator prayed with me etc. Then, a few days
later I received something in the mail from them. It was an 'anointed
cloth' with instructions. I don't remember how much money they were
asking for but they said if I sent money by a certain date, lit a candle at
midnight, and put the prayer cloth under my dad's pillow he would be healed as
this 'preacher' prayed for healing.
When I got this in the mail I was completely astonished. I couldn't
believe my eyes when they said I had to follow these instructions and send a
certain sum of money. It made me quite sick.
I didn't do it but instead wrote a letter to this man telling him what I
thought about his charging people for prayer and/or healing. I didn't get
a response back....LOL As you can imagine it was very disheartening to
see a supposed man of God insist on being paid for his prayer. This also
happened to my mom with another popular female minister.
I just wanted to let you know about this other tactic so you could warn
other's who are feeling desperate.
God Bless You!
Anne
I absolutely loved your article on tithing. I had been swayed by those
hucksters for so many years and was even encouraged to write my tithes off on
my tax returns.
Recently I came across a man named Zola Levitt and read his opinion of how
unbiblical tithing is. I grudgingly stopped bringing my tithe "to the
storehouse" and started giving it to those in need.
I finally received the "cheer" Paul spoke of until this [happened]:
I paid my tithe with as much cheer as if I were paying the phone bill.
Things had been nice until the devil instilled in me a fear of a curse (that I
had heard about from so many "men of God")
I started to wonder if this new practice of giving to poor and needy was
right! I nearly became consumed with this fear of doing the wrong thing
until this evening.
I prayed to the Almighty and asked for clarification on tithing. Once
up from my knees I went to the internet and poked in the search term
"tithing". Yours was the first I saw. Once into your article, I
felt that same since of joy I had months ago after reading Zola Levitt's
writings on the topic.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write down the truth and being used
by God to help me and many others like me.
I hope God blesses you as you've blessed me,
Larry
Hello.
I have a dumb question. I was raised a Catholic. At offering
time, they passed out envelopes, and passed the baskets. It was no big
deal. I never even heard of a TITHE until I started going to a
Pentecostal church.
I am having a very hard time even thinking about giving 10% of my GROSS
earnings. I am struggling with this. Does God really require 10%, and if
you don't give it, are you really "cursed with a curse"? Does that mean
that no Catholic will go to heaven?? Why is tithing such a big deal in
minority churches?
I simply can't afford to go to church. That is the truth. We
have the Building Fund, the Preacher's offering, and the Speaker's
offering. And then the choir needs robes, and there is a banquet, and because
you sit at the ORANGE table, you must wear ORANGE, so you must purchase an
ORANGE dress with all the ORANGE accessories. And the ladies auxiliary is
selling tickets. And we need money to do this and that. And it goes on
and on....
Is begging godly???
I can't take it anymore. Part of me says I am going to give what I can
and that is it. Another part of me is ready to make a mad dash for the
Catholic church. Part of me is sad because I can't believe that the
church has come to this. I am very confused. All I know is that I believe
that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God, and that Jesus died on the
cross for my sins. That is all I am sure of.
What can I do??
Please help...
[Ray Replies]
Dear Confused:
(This is beginning to sound like a "Dear Abby" column). Sorry, but I
don't know your name.
Don't let the charlatan preachers of prosperity give you an inferiority
complex over your spiritual standing with God based on how much money you give
to these men with insatiable appetites for worldly possessions and all that
filthy lucre can lavish on their carnal flesh.
That's not to say that there are not legitimate expenses in operating a
church congregation. However, these expenses need to be met with FREE WILL
OFFERINGS. That is how ALL the expenses of the early New Testament Church were
met. Tithing was NEVER taught by the Apostle Paul to the nations.
I have a whole paper on my site entitled: "Tithing is Unscriptural Under
the New Covenant." Subtitled: "The Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock"
I personally do not belong to or attend any institutionalized church. I
am, however, a member of the Body of Christ which is The Church of The Living
GOD. There are no monetary obligations to belong to God's Family of Believers,
however, one must be willing to sacrifice his all in service and obedience to
his Lord.
Your true fellowship and communion is with God the Father and your Lord
Jesus Christ. If anyone wants to put a monetary price tag on that fellowship,
RUN! You do not have to buy an orange dress to feast at God's Table.
Sincerely,
Ray
Mr. Smith,
I am sorry that you are still not clear on what the New Testament says
about tithing. Everything written in the Old and New Testament was given
as an example for us to live by. Tithing in the Old Testament was the
beginning of a mindset. As I previously stated, Jesus came to this world
not abolish the Old Testament Law, but to carry it even further.
A tithe and giving are the same. When Jesus came he reinforced the
fact that it all begins in the heart and the mind. Jesus took the law a
step further by saying if a man thinks about lusting or murder he has already
committed the sin even though he did not carry out the action. In the
same way giving is the New Testament tithe. It starts in the heart, hence
the scripture that states God Loves a Cheerful Giver. There is no set
amount to be given, but just as Jesus did, we should try to go above and beyond
what the Old Testament examples showed us. There were many times where
the New Testament disciples collected a tithe or gift from the people in the
church. The scriptures I previously quoted below from Acts show that the
church sold many of their belongings to give back to the church. That is
a tithe-they had a blessing from God and chose to return what they could to His
work. They distributed those funds to the people in need. And just
as they did in the first century church, we should do today.
As for the comment about money. Yes, certain SMALL groups of people
had money. For the other 95% of the population in the first century
church, they used what they had to trade and to tithe. If a basket maker
had baskets, he traded those to someone for a titheable item. He did not
pull money out of his pocket to buy those titheable items.
Lastly, I did read your last few paragraphs concerning giving. And
yes God wants us, but one way that we show that faith and dedication is by
giving things that we have here on earth-time, money, love, and many other
intangibles. As the scripture states, what good is your faith without
deeds and what good are your deeds without faith.
I believe in giving/tithing/offering my money to anyone who is TRUSTWORTHY
and in pursuit of God's work. I do not personally give to any
televangelists, but would not stereo type all televangelists. Just as I
previously stated in my email below, God calls on us to be good stewards and
being a good steward means researching and understanding who or what you are
giving your gifts to.
The most important item hear is not what you or I feel, but what Jesus said
and did-Matthew 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the
Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Trevor
[Ray Replies]
Dear Trevor:
It is most ironic that you should state: "I am sorry that you [that's me]
are still not clear on what the New Testament says about tithing." Don't be
sorry. If you understanding is "clear" then I prefer "muddy."
Trevor, listen a second. When one devises UNscriptural terminology to
describe and explain perfectly good Scriptural terms, one will ALWAYS stray
from the truth. You do this constantly. And the result is confusion. I will now
quote your statements using caps to emphasize certain key words:
QUOTE: "EVERYTHING written in the Old and New Testament was given
as an example for us TO LIVE BY."
Comment: Not true. There are several purposes for the written
Scriptures. That "everything" was given as an "example" for us to "live by,"
however, is not one of them.
"ALL SCRIPTURES is INSPIRED by God, and is beneficial for TEACHING ,
for EXPOSURE [make the facts known]
, for CORRECTION, for DISCIPLINE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS..." (II
Tim. 3:16-17).
There are HUNDREDS of things written in Scripture that are NOT examples for
us to live by. God instructed Noah to build an ark, He is not instructing US to
build a ark. Israel sacrificed animals by the hundreds of thousands, yet
these are NOT examples for us to live by.
QUOTE: "Tithing in the Old Testament was the beginning of a
MINDSET."
Comment: Not true. Abraham tithed ONCE, and then not on his own personal
possessions. Jacob tithed ONCE, but only AFTER God would make him wealthy.
Moses made it a LAW (not a mindset) that tithing on certain products was to be
done in Israel.
QUOTE: "...Jesus came to this world not to abolish the Old
Testament Law, but to CARRY IT EVEN FURTHER."
Comment: Not true. Jesus Christ came to "FULFILL" the law,
not to "CARRY IT EVEN FURTHER" (Mat. 5:17). The NEW covenant is not an
extension or a modification or a "furtherance" of the OLD covenant! The
Old Covenant WAS the ten commandments (Deut. 4:13). The New Covenant is not
even "patterned" after the Old Covenant Ten Commandments. Who are you going to
believe, Trevor? or Jesus Christ?
"Lo! the days are coming, the Lord is saying, And I shall be
concluding with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah A NEW
COVENANT [with NEW commandments],
NOT IN ACCORD WITH THE COVENANT [of ten commandments, Deut.
4:13]
which I make with their fathers."
God's NEW LAWS (Ver 10) are SPIRITUAL. The Law of Christ, The Law of Faith,
The Law of Righteousness, The Law of the SPIRIT, The Law of Liberty, The Law
of LIFE, THESE ARE THE NEW LAWS OF THE NEW COVENANT!!!
QUOTE: "A tithe and giving ARE THE SAME."
Comment: Not true. A "tithe" means a "tenth." Giving DOES NOT MEAN
A TENTH! This is elementary, Trevor. The law demanded a TENTH, not a gift of
ANY amount.
QUOTE: "Jesus took THE LAW a step further..."
Comment: Not true. He gave us a NEW LAW!!! Have you not read ALL
what Jesus taught regarding the laws of the Old Covenant in Matt. 5? Is
"turning the other cheek" a "furtherance" of "an eye for an eye"? IT IS TOTALLY
DIFFERENT!
"You hear that it was declared [IN THE OLD COVENANT],
'You shall be loving your associate and you SHALL BE HATING YOUR
ENEMY.' Yet, I am saying to you, 'LOVE YOUR ENEMIES..." (Matt.
5:38-44).
Is "LOVING YOUR ENEMIES" a "furtherance" or "extension" or "modification" of
"
HATING YOUR ENEMIES?" Give me break!
QUOTE: "In the same way [but Trevor, YOUR ways as presented in this
email are not GOD'S WAYS] GIVING is the New Testament tithe."
Comment: Not true. This hardly needs comment. Trevor, "giving" is
VOLUNTARY, "tithing" is a LAW THAT DEMANDS TEN PERCENT! In what way are these
two opposed terms the same?
QUOTE: "It starts in the heart, hence the scripture that states God
loves a Cheerful giver."
Comment: Not true. Tithing does NOT "start in the heart." One did NOT
have to be a "cheerful giver" in the Old Testament in order to fulfill his
obligation to tithe. One could HATE God and not get stoned, as long as he paid
his tithe. Moses did NOT judge the heart of man by two or more witnesses and
then stone them to death for not being motivated "from the heart." This is the
very reason the New Covenant Laws ARE SPIRITUAL LAWS!!!
QUOTE: "There is NO SET AMOUNT to be given, but just as Jesus did,
we should try to go above and beyond what the Old Testament examples showed
us."
Comment: Trevor, you throw together one unscriptural phrase after
the other and conclude that you know the truths of God. You say that "a
tithe and giving ARE THE SAME." You then say that "there is NO SET AMOUNT to be
given." If "giving" IS THE SAME as "tithing," then there most definitely is a
"set amount"--
TEN PERSENT! That my friend is the LAW OF TITHING! Ten percent was
not an "example" of what to give as you suggest, IT WAS A "LAW!"
QUOTE: "There were MANY TIMES where the New Testament disciples
collected A TITHE or gift from the people in the church."
Comment: Not true. Trevor, show me ONE TIME that the disciples
collected a "TITHE" from the people in the church. Show me ONE! You say
"many"--I say, "show me ONE." Do you really think that by adding "or
gift" to your statement that you are at liberty to pervert the Word of God?
QUOTE: "...the church sold many of their belongings to give back to
the church. THAT IS A TITHE..."
Comment: Not true. Trevor that is NOT A TITHE! If
selling a possession with the intent to give TEN PERCENT OF THE REDEEMED value
back to the church, then God Almighty would NOT have struck Ananias and
Sapphira DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS for "keeping back PART of the price." According
to you, Trevor, they could have sold their possession, kept NINETY PERCENT of
the sale for THEMSELVES, given A TITHE to the church and all would be well and
God would be well-pleased with their TITHE! Let's read it together,
Trevor:
"But a certain man name Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a
possession, And kept back PART OF THE PRICE [as much as NINETY
PERCENT, what is left after a tithe]
, his wife also being privy to it, and brought A CERTAIN
PART [at least ten percent, for that is what a tithe is]
, and laid it at the apostles feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath
Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to KEEP BACK PART OF
THE PRICE of the land? While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it
was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing
in thne heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing
these words FELL DOWN, AND GAVE UP THE GHOST..." (Acts 5:1-5).
It doesn't say, Trevor, but quote possibly Ananias and Sapphira gave NINETY
percent of the sale to the church and only kept back TEN percent. Was God happy
with Ananias' TITHE? It was not a "tithe" at all. They did NOT practice
tithing!
QUOTE: "Yes, certain SMALL [emphasis YOURS] groups of people had
money. For the OTHER 95% OF THE POPULATION...."
Comment: Not true. Where are you getting these statistics
that 95% of the people in Jerusalem in the first century HAD NO MONEY? Do
you have a Scripture on that? Do you have an historical statement to that
effect? Even the POOREST people in Jerusalem had money. "And one woman, A
POOR WIDOW, coming, casts in two mites, which is a quadrans." (Mark
12:42).
QUOTE: "If a basket maker had baskets, he TRADED those to someone
FOR A TITHABLE ITEM."
Comment: Not true. Do you have a Scriptural example of what you
purpose? Just how far will you go to push your unscriptural teaching of tithing
under the New Covenant? Your statements are not only unscriptural, but
they are silly. You are stretching, you are grasping for straws, but there are
none. You start with the false premise that the New Covenant church MUST
HAVE TITHED. But since that premise is not true and you cannot find a single
Scripture to substantiate your absurd claims and statements, you just MAKE
THINGS UP. Basket weavers traded baskets for corn and then TITHED the corn? Oh
really?
QUOTE: "I believe in giving/TITHING/offering MY money to ANYONE who
is TRUTHWORTHY..."
Comment: I am sure that you do. However, if it is truly a "tithe" you are
talking about, then it is NOT "MY [YOUR] MONEY." The tithe belonged to GOD, not
the person giving it! And just where did God authorize that people should give
a tithe to only "TRUSTWORTHY" people? Where do you find that? Read
Malachi! The book of Malachi is a statement against the wicked priests of Levi.
These priests were CORRUPT! They certainly were NOT "trustworthy." And
yet...and YET, God Almighty accused the WHOLE NATION of Israel of "ROBBING GOD"
because they did NOT bring the tithe of wheat, corn, oil, etc., into the
storehouse to these UNTRUSTWORTHY PRIESTS OF LEVI (Malachi 3:8-9)!
Your final statement:
QUOTE: "The most important item hear is not what you or I FEEL, but
what Jesus said and did."
Comment: Now that IS an admiral statement, however, what seems to
be important TO YOU at least is a plethora of statements to me that are totally
unscriptural and have nothing to do with what Jesus Christ actually "said or
did."
I am not trying to be hard on YOU, Trevor, but on you unscriptural
statements at are deceptive and divisive. I will post this email and my
reply with the hopes that thousands of others who read my paper on tithing and
have similar views such as you, will see the folly of such thinking and turn to
God in faith and truth. Faith must be according to the Scriptures. "If they
speak not according to THIS WORD, it is because there is NO TRUTH in them."
"Whatsoever is not of faith, IS SIN."
I trust that I believe in "cheerful giving" as much as the next person.
And we are certainly to limited to ten percent. However, teaching that tithing
is a LAW OF THE NEW COVENANT is unscriptural. All too many use this law for
their own personal power and gain. I heard one minister on TBN from
Georgia at least ten times or more [just for fleeting moments--I could stand to
listen to a whole sermon], before he had a topic other than giving, planting
seed, tithing, and a host of other topics dealing with getting rich. What a
total SHAM!
May God be with you, Trevor, and grant you a spirit of wisdom and
understanding.
Sincerely,
Ray
Ray,
In regards to tithing:
I fully understand your objections to tithing on the basis of the OT
verses you quote.
Just a few comments -
Jesus said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew
5:17-20), and that in all things our righteousness must surpass that of the
Pharisees & teachers of the law. Do you interpret that to mean that
Christians are free to provide less support for their preachers and teachers
than the law provided for the Levites?
I understand and concur with your assessment of televangelists who are
not true ministers of the Gospel, but charlatans who cheat thousands of
people.
However, I have been an active member of small congregations of believers
all my life & have seen the results of anti-tithing, freewill offering
theology such as yours. Tens of thousands of churches call
"bi-vocational" pastors (such as you note Paul was) in order to avoid putting
any burden on the lifestyles of their members. Threadbare pastors working
seventy and eighty hours a week, working themselves into the ground, sometimes
ruining their health in the process, cope with expectations that not only they,
but their spouses and children will present themselves every time the door of
the church is opened, and provide full-time pastoral ministry at usually less
than the pastor would make at McDonalds.
I recently had an outraged church member say to me that if we were going to
meet our budget, every adult would have to pay $16.50 a week!! He is a
retiree on fixed income, but I somehow doubt he & his wife live in their
suburban home, support their large Great Lakes fishing boat, etc. on $330 a
week! What he fails to realize is that people like me who do tithe - not
out of guilt, but, as you point out Jacob did, out of understanding that God
has blessed me mightily - enable him to live in his self-serving delusion that
he has a $16.50 a week obligation to the ministry of his church. I guess
my Spiritual gift must just be giving - and doing so liberally?
You say in your article that Paul never took money from the people he
served. I must point out that in his letter to the Philippians 4:14-19 he
thanks and praises that church for their financial support of his ministry.
Further, in 1 Corinthians 9:14 he states plainly, "In the same way the Lord has
commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the
gospel.' This would almost seem to prohibit the bi-vocational pastor
practice.
The conclusion of my comments on your article is not that it is without
merit. I do understand the point you make about keeping OT laws, although
as mentioned above, I believe we are called by Christ Jesus, and enabled by the
Holy Spirit to surpass the letter of the law. However, as Paul points out
in Romans 14 & 15, those who are strong in the faith and knowledge of the
Word are not to put stumbling blocks before those who are immature. You
responded to someone who asked about how churches are to be supported very
sarcastically - "with MONEY". Then you went on to claim you never
intended for people not to give. Sir, had you concluded your article by
telling people they should support their church, I would have no
objection. But your article, rather will lead the weak, and those with
itching ears to feel justified in their selfishness and greed - a stumbling
block, indeed.
Pam
[Ray Replies]
Dear Pam:
Thank you for your email and comments. You misunderstand a number of
things in my paper on tithing:
1. You ask if Christ fulfilling the law puts less or more obligation on
Christians to support their pastors.
Answer: Christ fulfilling the law does not specifically deal with
the support of Christian ministers. Jesus told His disciples on one
occasion to take NOTHING in the form of money on their evangelistic journey.
Certainly the ones being benefited were expected to contribute to their needs.
And the same was true under Paul's teachings. He explained that one does not
muzzle an ox which treads the grain. Notice that he did not bring up the law of
"tithing" in instructing how the ministry should be supported, but rather that
of muzzling oxen. Of course oxen are given food, water, and shelter, not
a monthly salary.
Paul said that he had authority to live BY THE GOSPEL, as you mentioned,
but he did not use that privilege, and admonished that others FOLLOW HIS
EXAMPLE.
It is clear that Paul worked to support himself and his companions. I have
absolutely NOTHING against ministers receiving a wage for their profession, and
I SAID SO IN MY PAPER.
2. You state that "tens of thousands" of churches try to employ
bi-vocational pastors to avoid paying someone a full working salary.
Answer: I seriously doubt that you could find "tens of thousands" of such
churches. Or even a thousand, or a hundred, that do what you are suggesting. I
know that there are a few--very few. I know of no "threadbare pastors working
seventy and eighty hours a week." I am sure their are a few--very few. And I am
also sure that a good, honest pastor willing to work SEVENTY-EIGHT hours a
week, could find a church that would be dying for his services and would give
him a full working wage.
3. You say I said in my paper that Paul never took money from the people
he served, and then point to Phil. 4:14-19 suggesting that Paul praised them
for "their financial support."
Answer: I NEVER said that Paul never took money from the people he
served. Where? I said Paul never took "a dime of
TITHE MONEY." Paul did not teach tithing to the Gentile converts,
neither did he accept "TITHE" money from them. Also, Paul never praised the
Philippians for their "FINANCIAL support" as you state. Paul tanked them for
"the THINGS" which were sent to Him. Money would hardly be called: "the THINGS"
(Phil. 4:18). Small point, however. It would make no difference if they had
sent money, or money AND other necessities. It still wasn't "tithing," but
voluntary GIVING.
It is certainly true that those who preach the gospel have a right to
live from the gospel. But teaching the gospel does not involve teaching Old
Testament TITHING as a means of support. The ministry today is NOT the Levetic
Priesthood, and the law of Moses clearly states that none other than a Levite
could accept tithes. There is NO temple today, there is NO Levitic
Priesthood, there is NO animal sacrifice, etc. Today's ministry is NOT the
tabernacle service of the Levites.
The churches today teach that one MUST TITHE MONEY. Money was NEVER, EVER
a tithable commodity under the law of Moses. And one was to tithe "on his
INCREASE" not "on his POVERTY." No one should be expected to TITHE TEN PERCENT
MONEY ON THE GROSS OF THEIR WELFARE OR SS CHECK! Yet it is is taught! I have
MANY emails attesting to this fact! IT IS A SIN!
My statement that churches ought to pay utility bills with "MONEY" was
not a sarcastic comment, but rather a SIMPLE comment that even children should
understand. One would look pretty silly taking a baskets of corn and wheat to
the utility office in payment of a church utility bill! Yet that is what was
tithed under the tithing law--grains, wine, oil, etc., not MONEY! This point
alone ought to show the absurdity of teaching "tithing" to support ministers
today.
Here is the answer, Pam: Pay bills with MONEY, pay your pastor with
MONEY, give him all the MONEY you desire, but don't make it a LAW and use the
Old Covenant as Scriptural support for the practice.
You suggest that I should have concluded my paper by telling people to
"support their church." I would NEVER do that. I have no idea whether their
church deserves to be supported or not. I personally don't financially
support any institutionalized church of men, yet I devote my whole life to the
gospel. If one's church really DOES teach the gospel, then they should be
supported.
I do not tithe to anyone, yet I am not selfish and greedy. Not tithing
does not define "selfish" or "greedy."
Read the last pages of my tithing paper again, and explain to me where I
cast a stumbling block and lead the weak to feel justified in their selfishness
and greed? I don't think so. GIVE all you want to, Pam, but don't "TITHE." It
is completely UNSCRIPTURAL under the New Covenant.
God be with you,
Ray
If the New Testament did away with tithing, why did I start being blessed
beyond measure when I stepped out in faith and began tithing?
Jerry
[Ray Replies]
Dear Jerry:
Thank you for your comment.
I don't believe most people realize just how much they sometimes reveal
about themselves in just one sentence or a few words.
I am glad that your are "blessed beyond measure." Perhaps that is because
you have a loving, giving heart.
However, I find your statement, "...I stepped out IN FAITH and began
tithing," to be quite revealing.
When God gave Israel the "LAW of tithing," did the people obey it by
"stepping out IN FAITH?" Do we pay our property taxes to our community by
"stepping out IN FAITH?" Hardly. It is a LAW. We have no choice but to PAY OUR
TAXES. And likewise, the Children of Israel had not choice but to PAY THEIR
TITHES! A MANDATORY LAW does not require "faith" to obey!
And so, aren't even you, possibly, admitting that you are doing something
"in FAITH" that is NOT "required BY LAW?" Paul never told the Gentiles ONCE to
"step out in faith and start paying tithes." Paul never taught tithing to the
Gentiles, neither did he ever take a penny of tithe money from Gentiles.
Besides, "money" was never a tithable commodity. Neither were fish, baskets,
sailing ships, wagons, shoes, tents, jewelry, etc.
I have no problem with people who wish to tithe. I have a real problem
with people who teach widows that they will be CURSED WITH A CURSE if they do
not tithe their welfare or SS checks!!! And I have on file letters and emails
to that back up this damnable practice.
Tithing as it is taught in most churches is an unscriptural sham. And made
no mistake about it: It is because the pastors have NO FAITH to trust God for
their needs, that they enact a law that does not pertain to New Testament
Christians "God LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER." THAT is the Scriptural
admonition that we should all be living by.
God be with you,
Ray
I appreciate your expository piece on tithing in the new church.
My husband got caught up in a "fundamentalist" Baptist church that had him
so "guilty" all of the time that he was giving them money hand over fist until
it nearly bankrupted us. I was so tired of seeing 10% of our paycheck
"before taxes" being collected by this church. I kept telling my husband
that something may happen in the future and we needed to be putting money aside
for a rainy day. Well the rainy day has occurred. We now have a son
ready to go to college and we don't know how we are going to pay for it.
I keep thinking and doing the math in my head. All those years we kept
putting about $5000 a year x ten or more years in the church plate was enough
to put him through college.
Another thing that bothers me is seeing these ministers take trips to the
Holy Lands or Hawaii even, when we can't afford to go to the state fair or
Carowinds once a summer. We even knew one preacher that two boats, and
was trading cars more than I trade in my underwear!! One evangelist came
to our church and set up a money jar in the vestibule for his daughter's
education fund-begged people to put money in that jar when we don't even know
how we are going to send our own son to school.
At one church, the congregation was paying for the health care insurance for
the preacher's grown daughter who was old enough to be working and carrying her
own insurance.
There will be a reckoning day some day for these acts.
[Ray Replies]
Dear Teresa:
Thank you for sharing your story with us. We hear similar tales all the
time. Yet I am criticized and threatened continually for warning people of
these unscriptural evils in the church.
God be with you,
Ray
Hi Ray,
I have read your comments and your emails from others. I would never have
thought that I would even consider what you have said. I too -- have been
taught about the tithes thing. I feel so guilty about it. My husband and I were
very sick -- had to file bankruptcy because of medical bills. We do not have
the money to pay tithes at this time. The hospitals tell us what we are going
to pay.
We do not feel welcome in churches. You know how it is -- when you don't
give. The hard part is missing the fellowship of others. It is hard just
sitting alone. It is hard not having others to just have fun and relate to in
the body of Christ. We want to be able to pay our tithes -- to get back in
church.
Don't you miss the church part? That is the hardest for us.
We got real hurt when we were so sick. No church came and helped us and we
had been faithful givers for over 20 years. I understand parts of what you are
saying. At the same time -- cannot the scriptures that you have quoted -- be
understood both ways. Your view point and the churches.
I listen in your comments and etc. I understand where you are coming from.
Like I said -- we feel like outcasts. It is taking having an effect on us. We
feel so guilty that it is effecting our home. You feel like you have
backslider. We miss the body of Christ so much. How can the leg say that
it has no need of the arm, etc.?
I will continue to ponder in my heart what you have said. The only thing
that I am concerned about is that you do seem angry. I understand being angry
about what is going on - I see that. At the same time -- it does make me
concerned about the fruit that comes with you because of your anger.
Take care and I will continue to ponder what you have said. My heart just
cries out to the truth. I just wish that God would come down and sit down and
speak straight to me. It is so confusing in so many ways. To be a part of the
church -- you have to do this. We have giving hearts and are willing. It is
just hard when you have to have medicine and etc. If we do it right now -- we
will lose our home and car. ( unless God gives us a miracle) We had to buy a
car for traveling back and forth to doctors. Our other car was over 20 years
old. We tried to tithe and were not able to buy groceries. We even wrote checks
for tithes and ask the pastor to hold them till we got paid. Like I said - I
hear you. At the same time -- it grieves us not to be part of a local
assembly.
I would pay anything to have that back. Take care, Linda
[Ray Replies]
Dear Linda:
I understand your situation. But can't you see the damnable damage this
doctrine of the church is having on you and your husband? Listen to me very
carefully, Linda: Even in ancient Israel, farmers and herdsmen tithed ONLY ON
THEIR
INCREASE! And ONLY farmers and herdsmen tithed in the first place. MONEY
was never a tithable commodity. The very people who earned WAGES by working in
the fields and tending the cattle, DID NOT TITHE ON THOSE WAGES OR MONEY! Now
that is an absolute Biblical fact.
The church has abandoned you in your need! Does that sound
"Christian-like?"
Did Jesus expect us to PAY for fellowship in the congregation?
The Church that Jesus Christ built is not a social club where the members
are expected to pay DUES in order to belong.
Listen, as God as my Judge, I cannot even begin to fathom the evil of a
pastor who would have the unmitigated gall to "hold your check" until you could
jeopardize enough of your other needs such as food and medicine, to cover your
tithing check! Does your pastor drive a 20-year old car??
Certainly I do miss regular fellowship with like minded believers in a
congregational setting. However, I have a computer and I have a telephone. I
have unlimited long-distance calling, and I make good use of it. I probably
counsel and fellowship over the telephone, nearly 100 hours a month! And
let me assure you, that it is far more profitable and enjoyable than
fellowshipping in a church of carnal-minded people with a carnal-minded pastor.
I have been spending 5 to 10 hours daily, just answering emails like
yours. This also is rewarding to me and is, in fact, a form of fellowshipping,
even though I may never hear your voice or see your face.
Our TRUE FELLOWSHIP is with God the Father and His Son, our Saviour,
Jesus Christ. And this is INSTANT fellowship--day and night. Trust me when I
say that spiritual fellowship is far more profitable that physical fellowship.
It is, in fact, HOW WE WORSHIP GOD!
I can't and won't tell you to stop tithing. Everyone must make his one
decisions regarding these unscriptural doctrines enforced by the Church today.
But should you decide to follow the example of New Covenant obedience, and give
CHEERFULLY according to how much God has prospered you, I do believe that God
will provide fellowship to fulfill that yearning inside of all of us.
We do hold informal Bible Conferences down here in the South a few times
a year. Numerous people travel 500 or a 1000 miles to attend. Ask any of them
if they would prefer to go back and fellowship weekly with those who persecute
them for being faithful to God's Truths.
Jesus said that when we would follow HIM, that our enemies would become
those of our own household, but most find it almost impossible to believe that
there could be even greater enemies in our own CHURCH! I can speak with some
authority on this subject, as those who know me can attest.
As for my anger. If you were to be around me very long, Linda, you would
see how much I LAUGH! I love to laugh, and I do it daily. I do not walk around
with a serious look of spiritual indignation on my face. In answering emails
and writing my papers, I follow the admonition of Proverbs which tells us to
"Answer a fool according to a fool" and "Answer NOT a fool according to a
fool." This sometimes involves humor. I don't apologize for it.
For the people who think that I am way out of line for getting angry over
the sins and evils of the Church and this world, I would only ask them to read
very carefully, the 23rd Chapter of Matthew. Then ask yourself how YOU feel
about the "harsh and angry language" that Jesus used on those pious religious
leaders who were loved dearly by their followers. I personally believe that
many who heard Jesus berate these religious hypocrites, thought that Jesus was
WAY OUT OF LINE with His language. You might also take careful not of this one
denunciation of our Lord:
"WOE unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for your DEVOUR
WINDOW'S HOUSES..." (Matt. 23:14).
"Devour"--from Greek: "katesthio, to squander , to waste, Luke 15:30, to
devour by forcible appropriation, as of widows' property, Mat. 23:14" (Strong's
#2719, Greek Dictionary, P. 135.
Paul speaks of these false apostles who demand high compensation to
fulfill their worldly lusts: "I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if
otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little...Seeing
that many glory after the flesh. I will glory also. For you suffer fools GLADLY
seeing you yourselves are wise. For you suffer, if a man bring you into
BONDAGE, if a man DEVOUR YOU, if a man TAKE OF YOU, if a man EXALT himself, if
a man [metaphorically] SMITE you on the face" (II Cor. 11:16, 18-19). And hard
as it may seem to believe, the Scriptures tell us that not only do the people
put up with such unscriptural abuse, but they do in fact, "...love to have so."
Listen to the TV religious auctioneers hawk their wares every day. They
berate and abuse the people to give more and more and more and more....
One of the most abusive of all has his very name stamped with the almighty
"dollar." They make me physically ill just listening to them. Have they no
shame at all? You be the judge....
Might I suggest that you read: "None Dare Call It Sarcasm" and "Why This
Site Exists" on this bible-truths site. God's command is to: "Cry ALOUD,
spare not, lift up your voice LIKE A TRUMPET, and show my people their
transgression, and the house of Jacob THEIR SINS" (Isa. 58:1).
You think these guys won't come after me one day for Scripturally proving
that their unlawful schemes for raising money to to fulfill their insatiable
lust for worldly materialism is a sin that is reaching into heaven itself?
The best advice that I could give to you, Linda, is the same advice that
I personally took years ago: "COME OUT OF HER, My people, that ye be not
partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Obedience always brings blessings!
God be with you,
Ray
Mr. L Ray Smith
I'm not here to put you down or your ministry, but Let me tell you what
giving has done for me... because I'm a tither and give offering the Lord
continues to bless me and give me favor with man.
The bible tells us to give...and I think God is require more of us then that
of the old covenant. Please look at these new testament scriptures .... Acts
20:35, Acts 2:45, Acts 4:34-37, Phil. 4:15-19, IICorth 9:6-13, Matt. 6:38
(Jesus said this, its in red).
I have more, but if you just look at this with a humble heart. I'm not here
to debt..receive it or reject it?
Thank you
Preston
[Ray Replies]
Dear Preston:
I am glad that you are blessed. I am sure that I have been blessed for
my giving as well, but I don't TITHE! And furthermore, neither do you.
You can SAY that you "tithe," but you don't:
1. Tithing was a LAW of Moses under the Old
Covenant. We are under the New.
2. Tithing was for ISRAEL ONLY.
Gentiles were not commanded to tithe.
3. Tithing was on FARM PRODUCTS ONLY.
Money was NEVER tithed.
4. Tithes were given to: The
Levites--we know of no Levites today.
5. Tithes where brought to the tabernacle or
temple--this IS NO tabernacle or temple today.
6. Tithes were also given to individual poor
people, not to individual ministers.
7. Tithing was on done on THE
INCREASE. The Church today demands tithes of the poor.
8. Tithing was an obligation of the
law, not a free and voluntary gift from the heart.
9. Tithes were eaten and/or turned into
money and spent on the tithe-payer HIMSELF.
10. There is no example of Jesus tithing. Jesus was
a carpenter. Carpenters DID NOT tithe.
11. There is no example of the Apostles
tithing.
12. Paul never taught the Gentiles to
tithe.
13. The Church in the first few centuries
NEVER tithed money to the church.
14. There is no ONE example of "Christian tithing"
in the entirety of the Bible.
15. The Priests and Levites ATE the tithe,
they did not buy million dollar homes with it!
Etc., etc., etc.
So you may give money to the church, Preston, but YOU DON'T TITHE!
"Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant."
Hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
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