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This is an email Ray received from Rev. K.] Dear Mr. L. Ray Smith, [ Ray replies] Thank you for your e-mail, comments, and sarcasm. Usually those who fault my writings just say something like this: "You are deceived," "You are of the antichrist," "You are hopelessly lost," "You are spiritually INSANE," or "What do you mean there is no eternal burning hell?" after which they then quote three verses from the KJV that use the world hell. So wow! What a breath of fresh air it is to finally have someone criticize my writings by getting specific and using accurate quotations. Thank you for making my day! I will now go through your criticisms point by point and reproduce them in bold print followed by my comments: "If you intend to fool anyone. . ." Answer: I have no intentions of fooling or deceiving anyone. To suggest that it is my "intention" to purposely "fool" anyone, is highly judgmental, Reverend B. Later in your comments you get even stronger by stating that unless I am of "sub-par intellect" then, "...you were TRYING TO DECEIVE PEOPLE..." (Emphasis mine). Reverent B, your statement is slanderous. I wrote 158 pages exposing the false teachings of Dr. Kennedy and Pastor Hagee. This included such outlandish teachings as to consign billions and billions from heathen nations to eternity in hell fire who have never even heard of the Name of Jesus Christ! And yet, I NEVER suggested that either of these two men purposely and willfully tried to fool and deceive people. But you don’t even comment on these grand themes with enormous consequences, but rather choose something as trivial as how many times heaven and hell are mentioned in the Scriptures! This was not a major point in my paper. And I firmly believe that all thinking people can plainly see that what I said regarding the contradiction between these two men as to whether hell is mentioned more often than heaven, is plain and obvious from any Scriptural perspective. After quoting Mr. Hagee’s statement, "The soul will die and spend eternity without God" you quote my response and then state: ". . .did it ever occur to you that he might have been explaining his use of the word ‘die’ with ‘. . .and spend eternity without God.’" Answer: No. No, it never did occur to me that he might have meant such a thing. The subject of the sentence is "soul." "Die" is part of the predicate. In fact not one person that I have shown your statement to, regarding Mr. Hagee’s quotation, thought that he could even possibly have meant such a thing. Do really believe that just maybe Mr. Hagee was trying to say something like this: "The soul will die and [the die] will spend eternity without God." Or is not this the obvious grammatical sense of this sentence: "The soul will die and [the soul] will spend eternity without God." Check with you boy’s English teacher, but I believe the latter sentence is the only possible meaning. "Third, what kind of hallucinogenic drugs do you need to be on to come to the conclusion that Psa. 49:15 (But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself. Selah NIV) says that a soul can be redeemed from Hell or Hades?" Answer: First, let me state that I have never used hallucinogenic drugs or drugs of any kind. Second, it is quite Scriptural and quite simple to show from Psa. 49:15 that "souls can be redeemed from Hell or Hades? Hell is NOT a proper or even acceptable translation of the Greek word "hades" or the Hebrew word "sheol," however, for this particular argument it won’t matter, because we are really zeroing in on whether souls can be redeemed from the Greek "hades" regardless of how one translates it into English. Certainly not all modern language translations translate hades as "hell." Here is the simple answer: In Psalm 49 and verse 15 the word translated "grave" is the Hebrew word "sheol." It is the same Hebrew word translated "hell" in Psa. 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, 55:15, 86:13, 116:3, and 139:8. Then why didn’t they translate it "hell" in Psa. 49:15? Simple, because this particular verse says that a soul can be "REDEEMED FROM THE POWER OF SHEOL," and if they would have been consistent and translated it "hell," then all Christians and readers of God’s Word could easily see (and rightly so) that souls could be "redeemed from the power of HELL!" So in order for the translators to support and promulgate their ancient pagan traditions of the immortality of the soul, eternal torment, etc., etc., they translated this word "sheol" in Psa. 49:15 as "grave." How convenient! HOW DECEITFUL!! Next: And what does all this have to do with the word "hades" or having one’s "soul redeemed from hades?" EVERYTHING! When we come to the Greek New Testament, we find a wonderful teaching tool. We find many quotations from the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures translated into the New Testament Greek manuscripts. And, I must add, these quotations are translated NOT by bias translators but by the HOLY SPIRIT of God! THY WORD IS TRUTH! (John 17:17). Not ever word of every translation is truth, but the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts of GOD ARE TRUTH! Let us notice just such a quotation found in Acts 2:27:
This verse, Acts 2:27, in the Greek New Testament, is a QUOTATION FROM THE HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT found in Psalm 16:10. Here then is this same verse in the Hebrew Scriptures:
The Hebrew says "My soul in SHEOL" and the Greek says "My soul in HADES." The HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD inspired the Hebrew word sheol to be translated into the Greek word hades! There it is! The spirit of God uses the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades INTERCHANGEABLY--THEY ARE THE SAME! Of course if you would have read a little longer than "1 minute" in my paper you would have had all this explained to you there. So we plainly see that when the translators who wanted to perpetuate their own traditions that are counter to the Scriptures, they changed their method by translating sheol into "grave" rather than "hell" because they didn’t want anyone to know that "souls can be redeemed from sheol which they translate "hell" in many other places. Ironically, they did the very same thing in the New Testament Greek. Here it is: In I Cor. 15:55 Paul is again quoting from the Old Testament Hebrew:
Wow! What have we here? In the Old Testament when the translators came across a verse that showed a positive side of sheol, namely that one could be "redeemed from sheol," they then translated the word sheol into the English word "grave," whereas in other places they translated this word as "hell" instead of "grave." AND THEY DID THE SAME THING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT! Ever time the Greek word hades appears in the KJV New Testament, the translators translate this word into the English word "hell"--EVERY TIME. But the one time we come to a verse were "VICTORY" can come out of hades, they then translate hades into the English word "grave." How convenient! HOW DECEPTIVE! The holy spirit inspired the Hebrew word, sheol to be translated into the Greek word, hades. So when God says that souls can be redeemed from the power of sheol, then they also can be redeemed from hades, because they are the same realm! Hades is sheol in Hebrew, and sheol is hades in Greek! And no one needs to take "hallucinogenic drugs" to clearly understand this simple truth of God’s Word. But then again I guess they didn’t teach you this in teleological cemetery, did they? I’m sorry, I meant theological seminary--a theological cemetery is an institution where they BURY THE TRUTH! (Hey, if you can insinuate that I am purposely deceiving people, using hallucinogenic drugs, or have a sub-par intellect, I don’t think I am out of line by cracking a joke, okay? By the way, how "sub" are you suggesting that my intellect goes , Reverend B, moron, idiot, or imbecile? Maybe you're right. I don’t know. I won’t debate you on that point. Back to your e-mail. A final thought you had on the above argument. You said the following: "This is clearly a passage [Ps. 49:15] referring to a soul who had faith in God and was saved from having to go to hell and instead went to Heaven." Answer: Reverend B, the way you throw words around as though they made the least Biblical sense, is bewildering. First of all "a soul" as you say, is Biblically identified--It is King David. God did NOT save him from having to go to hell, read it:
One CANNOT be redeemed from the power of hell or the grave unless one is actually there. And furthermore, Reverend B, David is STILL in the grave. And he did NOT go to "heaven." Let’s once more let God’s Word speak and rid ourselves of all this nonsense and traditions of men once and for all with regards to immortal souls [nowhere found in the Bible] dying and going immediately to heaven and other immortal souls dying and immediately going to hell to be supernaturally tortured by fire for all eternity! Properly translate the two little Greek words, hades [the unseen or imperceptible] and aions [the ages] and most of the pagan traditions and heresies of Christendom fall like a stack of cards in a tornado. David never did go to heaven, and is still in his grave awaiting final redemption. Acts 2:29-35:
Years and years after Christ’s resurrection, David was STILL in his sepulchre and HAD NOT ascended into heaven! But true to God’s Word he WILL one day be "redeemed from the power of the grave." Don’t be fooled, the grave is powerful. It eventually claims all. But after death comes judgment where God sets things RIGHT, and creates ALL THINGS NEW, and ABOLISHES DEATH ITSELF, and ever soul in heaven and earth will be brought to the cross of Christ, and EVERY KNEE WILL BOW and acclaim that Jesus is Lord, and that acclamation is a heartfelt acclamation (only by the HOLY SPIRIT can anyone say that "Jesus is LORD" I Cor. 12:3) to the GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER, and that acclamation and heartfelt faith and love for Jesus will save ever bowed knee (Phil 2:9-11), and so ALL MANKIND WILL BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4) and God will be "All in ALL" (I Cor. 15:28). Amen! Unfortunately most Bible colleges don’t teach this portion of the "good news" Gospel. With reference to Mr. Hagee’s statement that, "Jesus said twice as much about hell as He did heaven" and my answer to it, you make your following observation: ". . .if you limit your search to the words of Christ and not the whole of the Gospels (as he said Jesus referred to it twice as much) and then include all references or allusions to Hell (not just the word Hell itself) I believe you will get a very different result." Answer: Oh really? Let’s check it out and see. Mr. Hagee’s statement is that "Jesus said twice as much about hell as He did heaven." He did not say that , "Jesus referred to twice as much..." Why are you changing Mr. Hagee’s words? Do you really believe that if we change from what Jesus actually "said" to anything He might have even "referred to" regarding hell that the numbers will significantly change? You are grasping at straws, Reverent B, in your futile attempt to make me a into a lying deceiver. I don’t care how many word changes you try to slip in, you will never significantly change how many times Jesus spoke of hell OR heaven. This is not a subjective argument, Reverend B. This argument is totally objective in its solution. Strong’s Concordance shows that the word "hell" is used fourteen times in the four gospels--all by Jesus. If we include Acts 2:27, and Rev. 1:18 we have Jesus using the word "hell" a total of sixteen times. If we include EVERY time the word "hell" is used in the KJV New Testament, we will add six more for a total of only twenty-two. Twenty-two times that’s all. But you say that if we would count all of the times that Jesus not only "said" twice as much about hell as heaven but include all the times that He "referred" to hell, then we would ". . .get a VERY DIFFERENT RESULT" (Emphasis mine). Let’s see if there is a lick of truth in your statement. The word "hell" is used by Jesus in the whole of the Gospels 14 times. The word "heaven" is used in the whole of the Gospels some 150 times. Mr. Hagee says Jesus said "twice" as much about hell as He did heaven. So, 150 mentions for heaven, times twice that much for hell (150 X 2 = 300 times that we must find Jesus talking about "hell," according to Mr. Hagee). If we take this fictitious 300 mentions of hell that are supposedly found somewhere in the Gospels, and subtract the 14 times that we can prove from a concordance that hell is actually mentioned, we then only have to find 286 additional "hell references" by Jesus. The four Gospels in my Nelson addition of the KJV comprise 78 pages. So this means that you will have to fine an average of more than three references to hell on every single page of all four gospels.. Now if you can produce TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY-SIX additional references to hell by Jesus (or anything close to it) in the Gospels, Reverent B, Ill be happy to donate two hundred and eighty-six dollars to your church. Now to your argument that supposedly makes me either a lying deceiver or an intellectual babbling moron (or is it idiot?): You quote me where I say, "Tell me, do you men ever listen to each other on TBN? Dr. Kennedy says the Scriptures speak of eternity in Heaven some 300 times and eternity in Hell only 60 times. Both of your figures are in gross error and they grossly contradict each other." Your challenge is this: "Whether these two statements are accurate or not they are NOT contradictory to each other! One is making a claim about the words of Jesus and the other to the whole of the scriptures. This is obvious and is a mistake you would not have made unless you were trying to deceive people or were of sub-par intellect (I’ll let you pick)." You then add: "...you are going to have to stop comparing Apples to Oranges." Answer: Apples to Oranges? Please consider the following Scriptures:
Apples to Oranges, Reverend B? The WORD of God is "apples," and JESUS CHRIST is "oranges"? The whole of Scripture (God’s WORD) and Jesus (God’s WORD) are "apples and oranges?" Let me borrow a line from Steve Martin: "Excusssssssssse Meeeeeeee!" Get ready for a revelation, Reverend B: JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! It matters not whether Christ actually spoke of heaven and hell or inspired others (I Tim. 3:16) to speak of heaven and hell, all of these references are now canonized as "God’s Word" and Jesus Christ IS "The Word of God." The "WORD OF GOD" and "GOD’S WORD" are not "apples and oranges"! But far be it from me to let mere semantics get in the way of a cleverly devised argument. So you say you want more for your money? Tell you what I’m gonna do. I’ll slice them apples and oranges any way you want to, Reverent B! First: Are Dr. Kennedy’s and Mr. Hagee’s statements in gross error regarding the number of times hell is used versus the number of times heaven is used? YES. First, Mr. Hagee: Jesus mentioned "hell" only 16 times in the Greek Scriptures, while heaven is used 150 some times. By stating that "Jesus said TWICE as much about hell as heaven", he is therefore, off by nearly nineteen hundred percent. Second, Dr. Kennedy: In stating that "the Scriptures speak of ETERNITY in heaven some 300 times and ETERNITY in hell only 60 time," Dr. Kennedy is off by a million percent. Actually, the Scriptures do not even ONCE speak of either "eternity in heaven" OR "eternity in hell." "Eternity" has no equivalent in the Hebrew or Greek Scriptures. There is NO WORD in either the Hebrew manuscripts or the Greek manuscripts that can properly be translated "eternity," "for ever," "everlasting," "evermore," "for ever AND EVER[?]," or any other word denoting "endless time." The Greek word aion frequently translated "eternal" or "for ever" means an "age" or an "eon." They ALWAYS have beginnings and they always have ends, and they exist in plurality--eternity has neither beginning nor end, and there certainly cannot be a plurality or "eternities!" (See I Cor. 2:7 for "BEFORE the aions." Heb. 1:2 for "God MAKES the aions." Col. 1:26 for "PAST aions." Gal. 1:4 for this "PRESENT aion." Matt. 24:3 for the "END of this present aion." Luke 18:30 for the "NEXT aion." Eph. 2:7 for "FUTURE AIONS." EPH. 3:21 for an example of "CONTRASTING aions." And I Cor. 10:11 for proof of the "ENDS of the aions"). Anything that has a beginning and end, and also comes in multiples, cannot by any laws of language mean "eternity." Nor do the Scriptures themselves suggest such a term. Interestingly, no historian or scholar has ever found a word that meant "eternity" or "endless time" in ANY LANGUAGE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, until the after Bible was completed and canonized! Second: For arguments sake, let’s ignore Dr. Kennedy’s qualifying use of the word "eternity" and see if my statements are still true or not. Dr. Kennedy gives us a ratio of heaven over hell of five to one (300 heaven and 60 hell), while Mr. Hagee give us a ratio of hell over heaven by nearly nineteen to one (300 hell and 16 heaven). Clearly they grossly contradict. Let us now compare their figures to every conceivable section of Scripture and see if there is a nickel’s worth of difference: Hell in the four Gospels = 14 Heaven in four Gospels = 150 The actual numbers are about ten to one in favor of Dr. Kennedy, thus contradicting Mr. Hagee. Hell in the entire New Testament = 22 Heaven in the entire New Testament = 245 The actual numbers are about ten to one in favor of Dr. Kennedy, thus contradicting Mr. Hagee. Hell in the entire Old Testament = 32 Heaven in the entire Old Testament = 320 The actual numbers are about ten to one in favor of Dr. Kennedy, thus contradicting Mr. Hagee. Hell in the Old and New Testaments = 54 Heaven in the Old and New Testaments = 565 The actual numbers are about ten to one in favor of Dr. Kennedy, thus contradicting Mr. Hagee. So any way you want to slice them apples and oranges, Reverend B, Dr. Kennedy’s and Mr. Hagee’s numbers GROSSLY CONTRADICT (about ten to one)! I don’t know what one would have to do to get a "very different" result, as you suggest. If you have a way to calculate a "VERY different result," I would be interested in seeing just how you would do that. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that you have convinced anyone that my purpose in presenting these two men’s comments on the number of times heaven and hell are made reference to, was to DECEIVE my readers. It was not even presented as a point of any consequence. It was more of a parenthetical statement of human interest rather than of any scholastic merit or consequence. One more: "Now, I am not familiar with John Hagee, his teaching, or his Preaching, but I definitely came away from your letter with a better impression of him than of you and I would guess that was not your hope." Answer: I have no earthly desire to make myself look good and others look bad. If there were more people doing what I am doing, I would bow out gracefully and leave all this writing and exposing to others. But the number of people exposing the heresy of the Institutionalized Church of today are few. There are better qualified than I, for sure, but their number is small by comparison. My real hope is to glorify God and His Son, Jesus Christ, by teaching the grand and marvelous truths of His Word. Not the least of which is the neglected fact that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world, and therefore, WILL SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD! I despise the teaching that Jesus Christ will FAIL in His Father’s commission to TO SAVE ALL THE SINNERS OF THE WORLD (I John 4:14)! How many churches are teaching that God will save ALL MANKIND (I Tim. 2:4)? That’s the GOOD NEWS Gospel, not John Hagee’s "Seven Wonders of Hell" or Dr. Kennedy’s "hell is fair" philosophy! I would highly recommend that you spend more than one minute reading my material. There is obviously much that you do not comprehend regarding God’s Word based on your attitude and comments in your e-mail. May God direct you steps as you seek His will in your life. Sincerely in Christ’s service, Ray
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