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Author Topic: Thy Will be done  (Read 4807 times)

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cjwood

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2009, 05:14:18 PM »

Ray has cancer and is suffering.  God disciplines his sons whom he loves.  But what about Manuela?  Is this for her too?  What if Manuela was not a believer?  Would Rays suffering still be for her discipline or is this solely for Ray?  This, of course, is just an example of my main question in regard to cancer, who is God disciplining if anyone at all?

Eileen

hi eileen,
since ray is responding back to emails to some extent now, i believe that your question would be best answered by ray himself. why don't you forward your specific question to him and let him respond. he is the one who is going through this suffering and he is available to answer you best from his very own personal and spiritual perspective

claudia
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Kat

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2009, 09:37:21 PM »


Hi Eileen,

I believe that everyone that is touched by suffering is shaped by it to some degree.  As a person that is only a casual friend of someone that is suffering from an illness would not be nearly effected as someone close to them was, but effected to some degree. 

I think that God is working all these experiences that we are having now for believers and nonbelievers to their ultimate salvation.  For the Elect it is for their preparation to be in the first resurrection.  But even those that will go into the Lake of Fire, these prior life experiences have developed character that for good or bad will be used to bring their ultimate salvation. 

So everything that we or involved with (illness ourself or illness of a loved one), whatever we think, say or do is ultimately tested and judged by God's fire, now or later.

1Co 3:12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

Ninny

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2009, 01:46:09 AM »

Wow, guys! I never even thought of these things before! Ray is teaching us even from his bed of affliction! I do feel so bad for his family, they are suffering, too. Nothing worse than standing by helplessly watching as a loved one suffers. Believing that God is holding it all, God is all and in all, even though we know these things life is hard at best when you live through this situation. It brings it right back down to those verses in 1Cor.3:12-15! Thanks Kat.
Kathy
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Roy Martin

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2009, 10:32:04 AM »

I cant compare my sufferings to what Jesus went through, beat and cut until almost all of His blood had drained from His body, and then carried His cross of which He would be nailed to. His suffering was short lived but while going through it, it must have seemed like much longer. I don't know how long Jesus knew these things were going to happen to Him, but that had to be some mental suffering as well.
 His suffering was for us. What makes our suffering any different? I don't have cancer but some day I might and I will suffer, but it doesn't matter to me, it just gets me closer to a good sleep and departure from all suffering, and then Gods promise of purification and heaven.
  We like for our children to come to us and talk to us, to tell us whats going on in their life. It draws us close to them and them to us and gives us the chance to develop trust with each other. We want them to know they can and should trust us. Its all about communication and relationship. If they dont talk to us and we them, then the relationship becomes unstable.
  God knows exactly how to get us to talk to Him, and it doesn't matter what we talk to Him about because He lays it on our hearts what to say. The point is relationship and fellowship with our heavenly Father.
  Children most of the time cant understand the things we teach them until their grown with their own children.
  They ask but why this and that, and it goes on and on. We as parents know the story.
Suffering, praying, understanding, not understanding, wanting to do things our way. We are still children being raised by our Father.

Peace
Roy
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EKnight

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2009, 11:00:50 AM »

Thanks for your replies everyone.  Each post has something I can use to better my understanding.

You are all so great. 

Eileen
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indianabob

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2009, 08:57:31 AM »

Thanks for your replies everyone.  Each post has something I can use to better my understanding.

You are all so great. 

Eileen

Eileen,

I appreciated Roy's comments above along with all the others and of course we learn continuously so this will come up again.  One thought came to mind for me and I would like to share it.

I have had cancer and been "cured" enough to continue to function fairly well for about twenty years now.  I also have a degree of Prostate cancer that has not been treated thus far as I am 74 years old and "may" die of something else before the "cancer" overwhelms my body to the extent that I can't stand the pain.  In January 2009 I had my left knee replaced and dealt with that trauma for a few weeks of therapy.  The knee is pretty good now although this week my left hip is becoming tender resulting in pain and a limp.

So, what did I do that was wrong?  What lesson is God teaching me and my wife and to a lesser extent my four children who suffer along with me?

Well, for one thing God is teaching me and all of us that we are mortal; we wear out eventually so we need to make the best of every day that we are given AND we need to look toward the future since this "mortal" life is temporary and fleeting.  As the poet says, we are like the grass, here today and gone tomorrow.   So we need to do the best we can with what we have been given no matter how much or how little.  In other words don't worry about it for you can't change one thing that is ordained to come into your life by worrying about it.  In fact the worry will probably just make it worse.  So how should we think about this?

In my own case I have tried to fill my mind (let God fill my mind) with other positive thoughts.  I had cancer in 1987 and God let me live through it with the help of a surgeon.  In that trial I learned to trust my wife and appreciate her and to put her cares ahead of my own stubborn attitude.  I didn't want to go to the doctor because I was trusting in healing from God.  I was fasting and lost about 25 pounds and was still alert and working full time.  Of course, as soon as the pain went away I began to forget the lesson AND to selfishly put some worry back onto my wife's mind.  Finally, I gave up my selfish ego and at my wife's pleading, let the physician help me.

Another point is that I learned that life is about coming to realize that we, apart from God, are nothing.  We are made totally self centered and we spend out lives thinking mostly about ourselves, UNLESS God intervenes in our hearts and minds to correct us in this life.  As we know, many live out their lives without ever knowing God.  The rest of us, the few who have been called out of the world have begun to receive enlightenment, we have begun to be shown the real purpose of life and to learn that we can have a personal, one on one, father to child relationship with our creator. 

However, God is still the same, God decided that we all would die someday, somehow and God does not change. We all are mortal and designed from the beginning to wear out, to run down, to get so tired of the cares of THIS life that we just want to lay down and sleep.  So, whether it is cancer or heart failure or just living a good life until we reach 100 anniversaries, what does it matter?  All suffer in some manner.  Even those who have very little pain in their lives still have to deal with disappointment, temptation, and many other daily concerns that pester us and make us ask WHY.

A point I would like to make here is that disease, dis-ease is normal.  When we are children we usually don't worry about the purpose of life or how long it will last.  When we get older we begin to learn and to understand that we will die eventually.  Wearing out is normal and to be expected and to be accepted by those whom God has given knowledge.  Why is cancer any different?  Isn't cancer just a normal result of the breaking down of our bodies immune system?

In my way of thinking, now that I have had cancer twice, it is not a sentence or correction from God.  I prefer to think of it as a normal result of how I lived my life and of what I inherited from my folks because of the way they lived their lives and the way our bodies are designed as temporary vessels for the human spirit and so forth back to Adam and Eve.  Cancer is debilitating and often painful and frightening.  With some it is more like a numbing soreness that won't go away and that keeps a person awake at night even though they seem healthy in other ways.  So how is cancer any worse than severe arthritis or a traumatic and painful pregnancy or watching your child waste away from a mental illness like depression?  There are many ways to suffer and many ways to die, but in the end the lesson is that we are mortal and all die unless there is a resurrection to a better life in the Kingdom of God. 

God in His wisdom is teaching us a HARD lesson that all must learn eventually and the purpose of the lesson is hidden until God's spirit works with our mind to make the lesson clear and to develop compassion for others who need God's love imparted through us to each of them.  Without God in our lives, all is vanity and it takes suffering along with the spirit of Christ to guide us into all knowledge and into perfect understanding.

I hope my personal story helped a little.  Bob

Bob
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Arion

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2009, 09:32:29 AM »

Excellent post Bob!!  I'm only 47 years old but some of the things you said gave me a few things to think about.

Thank you..
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meee

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2009, 10:10:42 AM »

 This is a great thread and I'm gaining much from you all.
                 luv,meee
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Roy Martin

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2009, 10:45:03 AM »

Bob I appreciated your post and your disposition considering your condition. A good example of a personal relationship with our heavenly Father. Being a light, Gods presence in our life regardless of the situation, our example to be seen by the world. They for us and us for them and all for God. It really is an extraordinary concept. 
Don't you just love it when people can see God in us? I think that its one of the many great blessings we are blessed with, but if we worry and fret and murmur and complain, or have emotions out of whack, well its kind of hard for anyone to see Gods glory in that.
 Thank you for your post Bob.

Roy  
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:58:51 AM by Roy Martin »
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dogcombat

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Re: Thy Will be done
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2009, 11:49:12 AM »

I want to throw in my 2 cents, for I had a situation happen to me last week.  I was walking out of a local restaurant when I had a coughing spell (whooping cough of sorts) and passed out.  I only remember talking to the paramedics and being taken to the local hospital.
While this was happening, I felt the usual fears.  I don't have health insurance.  So I fear the bills piling up.  However, I felt that the Lord was letting me know that this was for His purpose and my Benefit.  The cough I had was with me for some time, so I was reluctant to get it checked out.  That day I did ask that God's will be done.  His will was different than mine.  I felt He wanted me to slow down, and Trust in His ability to take care of me.  Yesterday, I asked that God's will be done over the course of the day.  I got a warning from the State Patrol about my seat belt.  It hasn't worked in a year or more and I was upset over the warning.  But I did get my prayer answered.  I did ask that His will be done.  I don't know how He has this one worked out.   But that's for me to discover in the day's ahead. 

As Ray noted in the "Praying by Gods Rules" paper.  If you truly ask God's Will be done.  Your prayer WILL be answered. 

Ches

P.S. I'm feeling better despite this nagging flu bug.
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