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[bambam]

Hello, my name is Beth.  I have been gone for a while, but I used to come here.  I believe the truth is here.  I do not understand it all, nor can I yet explain it freely and openly to others.  But I know in my spirit, that God really does love everyone, and He is not going to burn them alive forever.  That is what brings me back.  

It's hard to leave that belief, simply because of the number of people who subscribe to it.  I know I will be labeled if anyone finds out what I REALLY think.  The hard thing is, I love the people who will be worried and concerned that I have begun to follow false teaching.  HOw do you do it?  Really?  It's so hard-I feel so pressed right now.  My dear husband is entrenched as an assistant pastor at our church, and I am in a position of "leadership" along side him, though I do not want to be.  Not because I do not love him, but because of my heart, and what I have learned.  He is a good man, and he loves me.  I am submitted to him, but I so badly feel broken by all this.  I do not want to be bitter, or angry, but patient.  

This has been a slow and emotional process for me.  It all started about two years ago and I have been learning and studying and reading ever since.  I have to be honest and say that if my husband knew I was on here he would be very hurt.  He told me not to come to this site anymore last year and we even got rid of the internet.  Now that I have it back, I have tried to stay away for him but I have found it difficult.  I really want and need to be completely honest with him. I do not want to hide anything from him.  

Pray for me as I really seek the right way and time to tell him my heart.  It will most certainly NOT be easy.  I dread it!!  I do not want our family to be divided.  But I also cannot justify going behind his back to come here.  Thank you all.

It's SO good to be back!!

Beth

[Marlene]

Beth, I will pray for you. Just, a couple weeks ago I took my Mother to see my Brother. He asked me if I was going to church. I told him no and he got so mad he threw me out of his house. My Mother is 88 . She was so upset. But, she has never believe in Hell or the Trinity or Rapture. My Father was ill and disabled at age 48. She always had to work to help take care of us. She was such a moral woman. So, busy and never had much time for herself.

I use to be a Lutheran when I was a young girl. After, marriage God drew me right in my apartment. That was some 30 years ago. My Husband, who is such a sweet heart believed from our home also. We did begin to attend church and went to the same one most of our married life. Until about 3 years ago. I became ill had some time away. Again, I became close to God one on one. Its a long story what all took place in my life. But, my Mother and Husband are ok with not going to church. My husband family all go. I am pretty sure they think I have lost my mind.

I feel bad since my Mother is getting old that my Brother acted like that. He himself is not well. But, he blamed me and said, I started stuff with him. Which, was not true. He was preaching and bragging about all he knows. Then he asked me if we were going to church. All I said is no. He told me to get out so we all left without a word.

Matt. Chapter  10
Verse 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to se nd peace, but a sword.
Verse 35 For I am come to set a man at v ariance against his father, and the daughter against her mother,  and the daughter-in law against her mother in law
verse 36 And a man's foes  shall be they of his own houselhold.

I don't know about you, but I was never presecuted for my believe while in Babylon's churches. But, since I have left I get it from some well meaning freinds family and church people.

Only, you can decide what to do. It is a hard thing. I will keep you in my prayers cause it is a hard thing to do. God gave me a good cause to make me leave. Yes, we love those people cause they are like we once were. Blind
Glad you are back.  I feel for you. 

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Hi Beth,

Good to see GOD Has brought you back, kicking and screaming, as we all have done in the past. There are a lot of Scripture to address your actions with an unbelieving or blinded spouse. The Scriptures below are to lay the basis on which GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ will have you in this age.

There are other Scriptures to show just how you can do this and still be a Loving and Loyal Spouse. But these are The Words Of Jesus Christ Himself, to lay the Foundation on which we all must build.

Please read and understand this first, i would be happy to pass my own experiences to you, and it is not easy at all. My Wife thinks i am totally deceived, Ray is a cult Leader, Hagee is a Good Man and one to emulate. It is a vicious war every minute of every day, but one that i will gladly fight so that by any means GOD May still use me to help Her to see and Believe.

I do not normally write long missives, but go to The Scriptures to make the case for why i have this Love for my fellow humans, every one of you.

Mat 10: 32-42 (MKJV)
32  Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven.
33  But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.
34  Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword.
35  For I have come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36  And a man's foes shall be those of his own household.
37  He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38  And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.
39  He who finds his life shall lose it. And he who loses his life for My sake shall find it.
40  He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
41  He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward. And he who receives a just one in the name of a just one will receive a just one's reward.
42  And whoever shall give to one of these little ones a cup of cold water to drink, only in the name of a disciple, truly I say to you, He shall in no way lose his reward.

george .

[bambam]

Thank you for the scripture.  I noticed something missing in this passage-spouses.  It addresses siblings and parents-are spouses just an understood here.  I am just trying to understand how to fulfill my role as wife.  Am I doing wrong if I go against my husband.  I want to do the right thing.  But I also know that I have not been honest with him because I know how much trouble it will cause!  He is so set in his beliefs as I was once upon a time.  Oh this is so hard.  Anyways, thanks for the scripture. 

Beth    

[Marlene]

I would say it would include Spouses. It can come from your own household. Thats, the hard part. I can see how hard for you it is. Being, your husband is an assistant pastor. My Husband, is not invovled with that as his work. He was never like I use to be about church. In my opinion he lived more like Christ then I ever was able. Now, I am able because I know only Christ can do it in me. I got sick of trying it on my own. Plus, we were pretty presecuted from our church of many years. We got a new preacher that we had for about 6 years of our last years spent in church. Watching some of his actions and lies and things pretty much done it up for us.

We turned the other cheek with him alot, until we could take no more of his lies and how he treated old and new people. We lost alot of members who had been there for years.

I will keep you in my prayers.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Ninny]

Beth,
I will pray for you to find the wisdom for what you have to do. Over the years I have done many things against my husbands wishes. Some I am not so proud of having done! I have always believed I had to follow what I believed God was leading me to. I have taken some pretty wild journeys in my life!! My husband has ALWAYS stood by and let me do what I want to do even if he objected! SO I know this isn't any help to you, but I just want you to know I will be praying that God will guide you in the way you are to go. I will pray that God will give you peace with all of your decisions. (my husband wasn't committed to any church and that really is easier than the problem you have.)
Praying...
Kathy

[Dave in Tenn]

Praying also.  I've sat here a long time trying, but I don't have any wisdom to share.  It's sad that you have to kida act or feel like a criminal to have some bit of fellowship with we few like-minded.  I pray God gives you wisdom and faith to know and believe and to do. 

At the very worst, you are not likely to 'lose' the sight you've gained if you continue to seek the Lord.  I feel confident that if I were to lose all contact with B-T--even if my bible was taken away--that I could not be forced or persuaded to believe again the major lies of Babylon.   

[aqrinc]

Here are some Scriptures that speak to each individual person, which is how GOD Deals with us (individually). Look at who built great babylon, and why each individual, needs to heed the strong voice crying mightily.

Dan 4:30 (MKJV)
The king spoke and said, Is this not great Babylon that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power and for the honor of my majesty?

Rev 18: 2-5 (MKJV)
2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen! And it has become the dwelling-place of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a cage of every unclean bird which has been hated,
3  because of the wine of the anger of her fornication which all the nations have drunk. And the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her. And the merchants of the earth became rich from the power of her luxury.
4  And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues.
5  For her sins joined together, even up to Heaven, and God has remembered her unjust deeds.

george.

[bambam]

[At the very worst, you are not likely to 'lose' the sight you've gained if you continue to seek the Lord.  I feel confident that if I were to lose all contact with B-T--even if my bible was taken away--that I could not be forced or persuaded to believe again the major lies of Babylon.]  


That's just it.  I'm not going back.  I think I actually tried to forget about it and give this fight up, and resign myself to the fact that I was wrong and they were right.  I told myself that I was twisted and turned in my mind, and did not know what the truth really was.  That did not work.  I know the truth, and I CAN"T go back, even if I want to!!  The truth is so much more glorious and liberating than any ideas that have come out of babylon.  I have real joy-it's really real.   The truth brings that joy so easily to me.  I'm in awe of who God really is.  Knowing who He is changes everything.  I could go on and on probably, but I won't- .  I am just so glad to be here!  Thank you for praying for me.  God is working it all out-I just have to trust Him.  

Beth

[Marlene]

This is so true Beth. We have a joy and peace that we never had while in Babylon. I always questioned where I stood with God. There, was Calvin, Luther, Wesley , Catholic and many more. Nothing but confusion. If, people would only believe what peace would fill there life. I am like you I could not go back. I am too happy now. I really feel bad for the blind, but God even has that taken care of.

Yes, God will work it all out.

In His Love,
Marlene

[gmik]

Hi Beth..just wanted to welcome you back and tell you I remember you.  I will keep you in prayer...God Knows your predicament...Trust Him and put Him first.  Love ya, gena

[Kat]

Hi Beth,

I am so glad to see your back 

Of course you do not want to have problems in your marriage, your situation calls for a lot of tact.  But you do have the spirit for guidance.   

Paul does have something to say about this.

1Co 7:10  Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband.
v. 11  But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.
v. 12  But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.
v. 13  And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.
v. 14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
v. 15  But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.
v. 16  For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

You know maybe you are so bogged down in your plight that you can't see how to get out.  Also consider beyond your immediate circumstances and try and look at the big picture.  Sometimes if you look ahead it will help you put things into perspective.  Don't forget we all will have to stand before Christ and give account.  Your husband will not be there and you will have to answer for your own actions.  I recognize that your situation is indeed a difficult one, but your husband is deceived and in bondage.  You have seen the light and are no longer in darkness, you need to embrace the light.  I believe Jesus Christ's spirit in you will guide you in what to do, you just have to listen to that little voice whispering to you.

I will pray for you and I hope that you will feel the strength of Christ in you and know He will get you through whatever is ahead 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

Hi Kat,

Thanks for bringing up Those Scriptures in 1st Cor 10: 7-16. In trying to discuss this with my wife and not using e-sword i just could not bring it to mind.

And Beth, yes i agree with Kat in all her words to you, as they are also speaking to me.

george.

[Ninny]

I just want to say AMEN to all of that! Kat, that is some great advice. George I am praying that you can say the right things to your sweet wife. Peace to you, and Beth I am praying for your peace of mind and that God will show you what you are to do!
Love you guys!
Kathy

[meee]

[At the very worst, you are not likely to 'lose' the sight you've gained if you continue to seek the Lord.  I feel confident that if I were to lose all contact with B-T--even if my bible was taken away--that I could not be forced or persuaded to believe again the major lies of Babylon.]  


That's just it.  I'm not going back.  I think I actually tried to forget about it and give this fight up, and resign myself to the fact that I was wrong and they were right.  I told myself that I was twisted and turned in my mind, and did not know what the truth really was.  That did not work.  I know the truth, and I CAN"T go back, even if I want to!!  The truth is so much more glorious and liberating than any ideas that have come out of babylon.  I have real joy-it's really real.   The truth brings that joy so easily to me.  I'm in awe of who God really is.  Knowing who He is changes everything.  I could go on and on probably, but I won't- .  I am just so glad to be here!  Thank you for praying for me.  God is working it all out-I just have to trust Him.  

Beth

        Welcome home Beth, it is hard when you think you aren't honoring your husband. We must Trust though and obey God's calling. I finally had to do this myself with my hubby. He remains in church and still ask me if I'm going with him today? I have to say No and I do. He loves me uncondionally and is kind and doesn't say anything to make me feel like he thinks I'm nuts. 
          George,Kat,Marlene, Kathy, Dave gave all the advice anyone could give ,so just hang in there and we'll be praying for you. We all need these prayer's and so I pray for each one that replied to your post and I am ecouraged,knowing they pray for me.
         with love your sister, meee

[brok54]

Hi Beth and everyone,

I too am experiencing a great deal of sadness.  My wife is still in bondage, reads her bible everyday and listens to bible studies from her church on the radio almost all day long.  She doesn't drive, so I have to take her to Wed. nite bible studies.  I sit with her because she doesn't like to sit alone and also because I love her.  But sometimes it's all I can do to not stand up in the middle of the "teaching" and scream "Blasphemy!"
For some reason, probably in accordance with God's plan, I don't have the ability to defend this wonderful faith with my wife and she has never come out on the losing end of any dispute we've ever had, so I'm in a very, deep, dark and lonely place.
A couple of times I inadvertently (really, not on purpose) left a page of Ray's teaching up on my screen when I had to leave for work or whatever.  When my wife confronted me with what she read it was something along the lines of..."that man is so filled with hate, how can you believe anything he writes?"...to which I reply .."uh, ummm, you don't understand..." or something really intelligent like that.
I was at a coffee house a couple of weeks ago and was reading one of Ray's teachings on my laptop when a girl (she was 27) walked up and asked if she could sit on the couch next to me.  I said sure and noticed she had a book with her titled "Death by Church".  I asked her what it was about and that started off a very interesting conversation that went on for at least an hour.  She listened to me and I listened to her.  It was extremely stimulating.  The words regarding what I now believe came to me easily and she was receptive.  She responded with relevant questions and I was able to answer.  I felt myself wishing I was about 20 yrs. younger and single.
But the fact is I'm neither.  I haven't been back to that coffee shop since that day, especially because she said she goes there regularly.  But as God is my witness, I really, really want to.
I added the story above just to illustrate how much I delight in being able to share this beautiful gospel and how very sad it makes me to not be able to do the same with my beautiful wife.
Beth, I'll pray for you and you can pray for me.  The Lord bless you all...

Dale Ray

[aqrinc]

Dale Ray,

Your story is so very similar to mine, and does it ever hurt. I pray that GOD Would open her eyes and ears just a bit, but then HE Will, when it is The Right time. So until that day we must go on learning Patience and Humility, which teaches us that All is up to GOD To WILL And To DO.

george.

[Samson]

Hi Beth,

           Glad your back, I don't think you know me, you were here long before I joined. When reading some
old Threads, I recall seeing your name BamBam. Interestingly, those are the initials of my full name, Bradley
Alan Mathews, Bam. I've tried to use that as password elsewhere, but it was never available. Remember,
only God can open the eyes and remove the scales of our loved ones. I guess it can probably teach us
patience, I know that hearing that is no consolation, but it's true. Remember, Love never Fails, we can
be the best Husband or Wife to our mate and leave the rest in God's hands. Sometimes the way we act
and react to our mates does more damage to whether or not they respond to these Truths or show
interest. I'm not directing this to you, because I've definitely been guilty of not being loving and
understanding enough. It would have been better if I had done less teaching and preaching and been
a better Husband, sometimes I'm a jerk.

                                            Kind Regards, Samson.

[brok54]

Samson,

I can really relate to the last part of your last sentence.

[bambam]

It thrills my heart to know that some of you remember me.  I had to leave because my husband and my pastor kind of gave me no other option.  Well, I guess I had an option.  I could have stayed, but now I understand that God took me away to strengthen me.  I studied my Bible independantly from what Ray taught because I needed to just hear the Lord and know in my heart what the truth was.  It is so hard in the beginning not to question whether or not you are being decieved, especially when you have been so steeped in the "church" and your husband and pastor tell you you are following a false prophet.  For a while I tried to leave it all behind me.  But every time I turned around, I would be refuting things said by the pastor from the pulpit in my head.  I was in church physically, but not mentally.   We got the internet back a few months ago and I tried my hardest to stay away from here to honor my hubby's wishes, but I just could not.  I hate worrying about getting caught with my hands in the proverbial "cookie jar", but I still could not stay away.  I have not told him yet, but I want to.  I am praying for the right time.  Usually though, things like that seem to happen at the most seemingly worst time for me.    Ah, but God knows.  It's not coming here that I feel bad about, but the hiding it from my husband is tearing me up inside.  I don't keep secrets from him!!  And when I tell him, you can bet that the walls are going to come crumbling down, more than likely.  He will most likely go to our pastor and seek help.  Our pastor is a good man, he seems to genuinely love and care about evryone, that is another thing that makes this so hard.   Now I wait.  Waiting is hard, but I am waiting.  Thank you for the encouragement, and to those who are in the same boat-keep your chin up.  I completely understand the loneliness.  It is hard to spend every evening with my husband wishing we could discuss these spiritual things.  God is our rock, and shelter in time of storm.  Peace, love and blessings to you all!!

In the love of Christ,
Beth