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[NoviceBeliever]

As I am studying Ray's teachings, I have been amazed by how much we are taught in our lives, that is unfounded. But as I shed some of my prior misnomers that have been drilled into my head all these years, I am also faced with a sadness, that the love I have felt for God may also be based on falsehoods.

So my question is; Is it possible to have to find a new way to love God after you strip away your old beliefs? 

I don't know whether I can do justice to the question I am asking in the few sentences I have written, but I could sure use the input.
NB

[mharrell08]

As I am studying Ray's teachings, I have been amazed by how much we are taught in our lives, that is unfounded. But as I shed some of my prior misnomers that have been drilled into my head all these years, I am also faced with a sadness, that the love I have felt for God may also be based on falsehoods.

So my question is; Is it possible to have to find a new way to love God after you strip away your old beliefs? 

I don't know whether I can do justice to the question I am asking in the few sentences I have written, but I could sure use the input.
NB

Excerpt from Lake of Fire #14 'The Beast Within' (http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html):

EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST

What an astonishing truth it is, that God CAUSES all those destined from the foundation of the world, to be chosen in Christ, that they should "fall away" from the Truth and "leave their first love" before they can be truly spiritually converted. Yet this is the plain declaration of Scripture.

Peter fell away:

"Jesus said unto him [Peter], Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, you shall deny me thrice [three times]" (Matt. 26:34).

All the apostles fell away:

"Then said Jesus unto them, ALL YE shall be offended because of Me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad" (Matt. 26:31).

"And they ALL forsook Him, and fled." (Mark 14:50).

Paul fell away:

"As for Saul [renamed Paul], he made havock of the church…" (Acts 8:3) [while at the very same time he was "blameless" in keeping the Law of Moses] (Phil. 3:6).

ALL the Churches in Asia fell away after being in full support of Paul’s ministry. First:

"The churches of Asia salute [greet] you…" (I Cor. 16:19).

Later near the end of Paul’s ministry:

"This you know, that ALL they which are in Asia be TURNED AWAY FROM ME…" (II Tim. 2:15).

Paul warned the Ephesian Elders about the "flock—church" falling away:

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock [the whole flock]." (Acts 20:29).

Jesus prophesied that all who will become overcomers will have first fallen away temporarily by leaving their first love:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against you, because you [the seven-in-one golden candlestick church of God that is, was, and will be] have LEFT YOUR FIRST LOVE" (Rev. 2:4).

Jesus Himself calls this leaving of our first love, a falling away:

"Remember therefore from whence you ARE FALLEN, and REPENT…" (Rev. 2:5).

Whenever we "fall," we leave our "first love." For spiritual falling IS, LEAVING LOVE. Jesus said that when we leave our first love we are to ‘remember from whence we are FALLEN…’ Love itself has not failed us, but we have failed love, for true love is not capable of failure or falling:

"Charity [Old English for ‘love’] never fails…" (I Cor. 13:8 ).

Jesus reprimands us for "falling" from love in Rev. 2:5. Interestingly, the word translated "fails" in I Cor. 13:8 is the very same word translated "fallen" in Rev. 2:5. And so, "love never FALLS," but before we are saved, we will fall.

Why is it that this Scriptural truth is not taught in the Church? Simple: Most in the church have not as yet experienced "leaving their first love." Therefore, they are still deceived, and CANNOT see the beast within. They are still in the process of constructing their spiritual house upon the sand. Most will never see the beast in this lifetime.


Matt 3:1-2  In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt 4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:14-15  Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 5:31-32  And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

2 Cor 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Acts 3:19-20  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Rev 2:4-5  Nevertheless I [Jesus] have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Ninny]

Marques, thanks for posting that! You know when you begin to learn that everything you THOUGHT you knew is bunk...it kind of throws you for a loop! I felt that way when I left the Seventh Day Adventist church years ago! For 8 years some friends and I had home church because we didn't know what else to do! I THOUGHT the Sabbath-keeping was right, but when I began to see the other things were wrong I was just lost! We kept worshiping God, but something was not right. WE became just a group of Adventist bashers after a while! Then we happened onto a Bible study and joined the group which led us to the Vineyard Church, which was a breath of fresh air after the SDA church (those initials could also mean: Stuffy Dead Alliance)  BUT after 8 MORE years I left there!  Can we say maybe I am a slow learner?? (Left my long-time friends behind).

My friends thought it was awful and I still talk to them, but our time of sharing is over unless God intervenes! I realize after feeling that God was just shoving me around that He was doing it for a reason! I didn't belong anywhere! I had been reading Ray's stuff for awhile but then I went back and started printing everything out. I have almost everything on BT in print! I even joined the forum back in 2007, but never could get signed on for some reason! So I thought that God didn't want me here! 

I kept trying different churches, but nothing! Finally I just couldn't wait for all the parts of the LOF series to be out!! I read and read and THEN I understood what was happening to me! I realized that God was CALLING me not PUSHING me around He was DRAGGING me here! To this forum where everyone has a very similar story!

SO last June I decided to try the forum again and this time it worked!! I got signed on and have been here ever since! So many of the things Ray has taught absolutely sparked a fire within me! I knew that this is truth, when you are a seeker of truth you are a finder of truth! So NB, you will find that way to love God again! You will know that He has been right with you the whole time and now is bringing you to this new place. The reason we fall away is to find our way! God is in it all! Until we have our moorings completely stripped away and we are adrift in an ocean of uncertainty we will not be able to hear God calling to us! God is the one who does it in us and through us, we HAVE to know that!

The teachings we grew up with were tainted with falsehoods for sure, but God is true! God is real, and His love Never Ever falls away from us!
Kathy

[firefly77]

So my question is; Is it possible to have to find a new way to love God after you strip away your old beliefs? 

For me it has been very hard. I was "churched" for 18+ years, yet somehow never felt like I belonged. The hardest part for me is to trust again and not to be too cautious and skeptical. God has to basically confirm it to me by real life application and examples, if this makes any sense. Yet somehow I know that I am safe here and this is where the truth is. I don't contribute much in writing but am coming almost every day to read the new posts and to read Ray's study material.
I don't have the desire to go back to "Churchianity" and all it stands for. I shudder to think I was part of one of most intolerant and unloving group of people who would not think twice about sending someone to hell for eternity, since it was "their choice" to go there. If this is love, I don't want any of it. The drama, the lies, the unscriptural rehearsed displays of "godliness" and selling the gospel are nauseating at best.
Angie

[Marlene]

Hello, When, I came in here I did not know that I really did not love God or others right. Being, in churches can make you feel self-righteous even when you are doing the same things as the others in the world. Coming in here has taught me what true love really is about.

When, you look at a God as someone who will send you to Hell to be tortured it is looking at God as a simple man. I had to repent that I did not know him. He hates our sin and I hate my sin. He Loves us all and he intends to change us all. How can we be changed when we do not see the God of Love and mercy for all men.

I believe, with all my heart that God has given Ray his truths. I am blessed that God led me here. It makes it easier to forgive others that hurt you. It also, has shown me how when I dont obey God it hurts him. He is my first concern. I do not want to hurt him. His love has taken me to a depth of God I never dreamed of. He is a pure Love. One, that I can trust in. One , that I know will stand by me even when I have walked away.

Yes, I do believe we are learning how to Love God all over. We, are learning to Love like him. Truth has set us free. I see scriptures now with open eyes and I hear God now. There is no doubt that I am home with God now. I see him as he is. I am seeing more and more about him everyday.

How can you obey a God you did not truly know. We are all sinners. We are all wanting to be changed to be like him. We don't want to worship in our own way , but in his way.  I have been forever changed by his truths and his amazing Love that never ceases to amaze me.

Well, I thank God every day for leading me to the  Truths that God has so kindly showed Ray and is now showing all of us.

I pray each day God give me Love like yours.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Ninny]

Angie,
 I was "Churched" my whole life from the time I was born until I found BT!! That was a LONG LONG journey!! I remember growing up my dad and mom worked around the clock with few days off so they didn't attend church regularly, but the preacher of the local Nazarene church came by our house all the time! My brothers and I attended that church all of our lives until we were teenagers! The pastor never seemed to really be looking for anything or trying real hard to get my parents to go to church...BUT every time he came my dad would open our freezer and send him home with his arms loaded down with food! Whatever we had my dad freely shared! 

I remember one day the pastor's wife, she was my Sunday School teacher, was talking about the Catholic church down the road. She said, "Well we don't really consider them to be Christians." I remember thinking to myself, "Well, what are they then, they're not Buddhists!" That was one of my first encounters with the real "Christian" spirit! That is one of my earliest realizations that there was something "rotten in Denmark" as the saying goes! It took my whole life long to really hear God's call on my life. I was certain for many years that I was called to be a teacher and I'm a darned good one, too! I taught Bible to children from the time I was 16 years old until just the last few years. BUT in that time of thinking that I knew my direction in life CLEARLY...there were undercurrents of unbelief and doubt starting to settle in and that was what God was doing in me! I really miss the kids and the way it used to feel when I was teaching, but guess what? After I had read a few of Ray's papers, and began to understand the depth of the deception, I no longer wanted to teach the kids! I did NOT want to teach what I no longer believed!!
So I was left with the question, "What am I supposed to do now?" It is almost like the question I would ask or the way I would feel if after over 37 years of marriage my husband suddenly decided to divorce me!

So no one is alone in this journey here at Bible-Truths I assure you! Angie, and NB don't forget that it has happened to all of us! We are together in this until God says differently! We are in some ways like a rag tag army trudging up a hill not knowing what we will find when we get to the top! We do know though that God is with us all the way! And we know the victory is ours!!! And Amen,  Marlene!!
Kathy

[lilitalienboi16]

Hey... i thought i knew God 5 years ago.. than i met ray and this site and truly thought i knew God. I've come to realize as of recent that i am still very carnel and yet still a beast, never truly loving God... So here i am, i'm learning, for the third time now, to love God.

Good to see i'm not alone

Guess it's a life long journey and for some of us, we're only just beginning. I can only hope and pray that God has something grand for me, more than just an ordinary carnal selfish life. I want Christ, i want to live like He would, i want Him to live in me everyday and always.

I wanna sit on those thrones with you guys one day

Much love in our Savior,

Alex

[firefly77]

Ninny,
I really liked your analogy with your husband divorcing you after 37 years. It is like having been married to someone who has deceived you for so many years while you were absolutely clueless because you trusted him.
It has been a painful journey since I left Babylon although what we have here is so much better. Everything that needed to be shaken was shaken; there is only one foundation left and that is Christ.
It is sorta strange, I would much rather hang out now with a bunch of unbelievers than have a relationship with a so called "Christian".
I don't want to hijack this topic, so I will leave it at that.
Yes, Alex, it is nice to know you are not alone. However, I am no material for sitting on one of the thrones some day unless God does a major overhaul in me. I can see the "beast", I live with her day in and day out... it is not a pretty sight.

May Christ fill our hearts with His Love.

[Marlene]

Well, I believe we are all in the same boat. We have to die daily.
Philippians Chapter 3  verse 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus
verse 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
verse 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus

We have to grow and endure to the end. Not, one of us can make the claim we are the elect. We, are in a race for the prize. We will find that out after we awake from death.

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

We must endure to the end, to gain the prize of Election, and GOD Knows All who will endure. Thus here we go again:

Php 2: 9-16 (CLV)
9 Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name,
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean,
11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father."
12 So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect,
13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.
14 All be doing without murmurings and reasonings,
15 that you may become blameless and artless, children of God, flawless, in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse among whom you are appearing as luminaries in the world,
16 having on the word of life, for my glorying in the day of Christ, that I did not run for naught, neither that I toil for naught."

george .

[lilitalienboi16]

Ninny,
I really liked your analogy with your husband divorcing you after 37 years. It is like having been married to someone who has deceived you for so many years while you were absolutely clueless because you trusted him.
It has been a painful journey since I left Babylon although what we have here is so much better. Everything that needed to be shaken was shaken; there is only one foundation left and that is Christ.
It is sorta strange, I would much rather hang out now with a bunch of unbelievers than have a relationship with a so called "Christian".
I don't want to hijack this topic, so I will leave it at that.
Yes, Alex, it is nice to know you are not alone. However, I am no material for sitting on one of the thrones some day unless God does a major overhaul in me. I can see the "beast", I live with her day in and day out... it is not a pretty sight.

May Christ fill our hearts with His Love.

Firefly77,

I am right with you on that. God needs to work a miracle in me to make me anywhere near able to sit on one of those thrones. But what do we have in this life other than to trust Him? We are nothing but grass :/ Here today and gone tomorrow. We can only trust in Him. So i trust... it's all i have. Nothing in of ourselves is worth trusting, is worth building up.. we just... are beasts. Life is tough when you know that.. i remember when i first had my eyes opened up to all this, i felt like such a burden to God, like i just wasn't worth to speak to Him. I still feel that way... alot of the times. That i'm waisting God's time, that i'm a traitor. I know i can' t decieve God but sometimes i feel like im trying to decieve Him because im so carnal. I say ill do this, or i wont do that, and i find myself doing what i didn't want to do... Just like paul. Than i see myself saying "O wretched man that i am.. who will save me from this body of death?"

The 21 years that i have lived, all i see is this;

Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him [THE BEAST] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That's all thats going on here.. war with the saint.. and this saint is overcome everytime... though i be no saint

[aqrinc]

We are not worthy because of anything from ourselves, But:

2Th 1:5 (GW)
Your suffering proves that God's judgment is right and that you are considered worthy of his kingdom.

2Th 1:11 (GW)
With this in mind, we always pray that our God will make you worthy of his call. We also pray that through his power he will help you accomplish every good desire and help you do everything your faith produces.

Rev 12:11 (KJV)
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

george.

[lilitalienboi16]

We are not worthy because of anything from ourselves, But:

2Th 1:5 (GW)
Your suffering proves that God's judgment is right and that you are considered worthy of his kingdom.

2Th 1:11 (GW)
With this in mind, we always pray that our God will make you worthy of his call. We also pray that through his power he will help you accomplish every good desire and help you do everything your faith produces.

Rev 12:11 (KJV)
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

george.

Wow ty goerge. Absolutely beautiful post. Thanks for reminding me of these verses. Truly beautiful.

God bless,

Alex

[firefly77]

lilitalienboi16

i felt like such a burden to God, like i just wasn't worth to speak to Him. I still feel that way... alot of the times. That i'm waisting God's time, that i'm a traitor. I know i can' t decieve God but sometimes i feel like im trying to decieve Him because im so carnal. I say ill do this, or i wont do that, and i find myself doing what i didn't want to do... Just like paul. Than i see myself saying "O wretched man that i am.. who will save me from this body of death?"

That's me too. I get so fed up with myself that I somehow project my feelings about my shortcomings and sin onto our loving God, thinking surely, He must be fed up with me as well. At least, and that's the good news in all this, I see the sin, am aware, and desire to be changed.
Pressing on...
Angie

[Marlene]

Angie and Alex, You are so right. But, I do believe he has given me victory over some of my sins. The difference now is we can't stand any sin in us. God is still doing his work in us. Remember, he is trying to teach us to become like him.He is patient. He wants us to be patient. Maybe this is how he teaches us patience.

After, coming in here and learning the truth it seemed he grew me rapidly all at once. Yes, I still sin . I hate it. But , learning to wait on God is teaching me patience. He has been  patient with us. We need to be the same with him.

Our trials will make us better. We will become more like him. Just, wanted to uplift you all who feels burdened with there sin. God is working in us even when we may not see it.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Ninny]

Hey guys!
One thing we can count on is this: when He comes we will be like Him! We will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye!

 My sweet little Alex. God has a mighty big love for you! Just look what he has done in you so far!! All of us older folks have lived so long on this journey going round and round the lot of us are just waiting for that day when we will be like Him!! God is molding all of us into what He wants us to be, but look at you! You are a pretty fresh lump!!  so God's got you! You are starting out ahead of the game you don't have a lot to unlearn, but so much to learn! Look at you standing for truth in an age when most guys your age are standing for whatever just makes them feel good! Standing for what they think is good not what God says is good! I'm proud of you, buddy! Even if you don't think you're perfect yet, don't worry, you will be one day and so will all of us!!
Hugs!
Kathy

[bunnylife]

The teachings we grew up with were tainted with falsehoods for sure, but God is true! God is real, and His love Never Ever falls away from us!
Kathy

God is true and Love never fails. I love that and Him for loving me and the world. I never felt like I belonged either. Not in the world.. not going from church to church. I just didn't fit in. But now, Wow! I know that I belong here with my brothers and sisters. The Truth knocked me for a loop just like everyone else but it also set me free. Joy floods my soul because of the goodness of God dragging me here. Each one of us are on individual journey that Daddy God has specially designed (fiery trials and tribulations) but the end is the same.. to be transformed into His glorious image...LOVE.

Philippians 1:3-6 (NKJV)
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

In His Joy,
Bunni

[Linny]

I'm with you Kathy! I see Alex and others on this forum who are being molded and changed and learning truths so young, and I admit I am a bit jealous.
Of course I know that God's hand has been on me my whole life leading up to this and can see why He took so long to show me but I think it is natural (carnal  ) to think, "Oh if I knew then what I know today..."

Alex, you are SO blessed!

I am loving the journey to finding my first love again!

Firefly, I am like you, my husband and I seem to enjoy hanging out with non-Christians more than our Christian friends oftentimes. One, we don't have to listen to the silliness that we close our mouths to, and two, we can actually talk to them about truth without offending them!

[firefly77]

Linny,
I have made the same discovery. There are some "unbelievers" I count as my "best" friends; they will get me out of a ditch in the middle of winter, 4 feet of snow on the ground and 10 below, or shovel the snow off my roof because I can't. I have lots of examples where the "unbeliever" became the Good Samaritan in my life. The Church could only bring themselves to pray for me in an unknown tongue. That, of course, was extremely helpful  . Sorry if I sounded cynical...
Angie

[Linny]

No Angie, not cynical, just honest. When we were at our lowest point, our pastor would only offer prayer for us (after two times of going to him for help). We have two little girls and the IRS took 80% of our monthly check. But two ladies where we paid a bill that we barely knew, knew our situation and they bought us groceries. I know exactly where you are coming from.