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Author Topic: I'm sick...  (Read 18061 times)

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24 Grams

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I'm sick...
« on: May 27, 2009, 11:23:03 PM »

 I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!!  Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?

Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.

Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so?  Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?

I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept.... 
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 12:07:17 AM »

Well the term used to refer to "MAN" as in the "son of MAN" is actualy the same word used for Humanity. If i'm not mistaken.

I'm also sure, from what i remember, that their is a verse that mentions "DAUGHTERS" of God. So it's not only just SONS of God.

Also their was a female character of great importance in the bible, Perhaps even greater than the prophets, her name is Ester i believe. I could be mistaken though.

Can you link the verse also that refers to this "half naked man" that apparently appears in the text for no purpose or reason while Jesus being lead away.

I'd greatly appreciate that.


Theirs alot in your post to go through.. and im a bit lazy atm... oh who am i kiding, im always lazy but um.. ill try and see what i can dig up to respond to some of your posts.

I too hope this isn't removed because its a good time to search ourselves and to help others who have similar feelings.

God bless,

Alex
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 12:08:49 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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pinko

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 12:24:04 AM »

Alex,  he's talking about this passage in Mark, describing the taking of Jesus in the garden on the night of his passion...

Mar 14:46      And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
 Mar 14:47    And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
Mar 14:48    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and [with] staves to take me?
Mar 14:49    I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Mar 14:50    And they all forsook him, and fled.
 Mar 14:51    And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about [his] naked [body]; and the young men laid hold on him:
 Mar 14:52    And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

I guess I can understand the poster's frustration, but his notion of Jesus' 'gayness' is just a childish tantrum on his part.  Anyway, I'm sure that's the passage to which he refers...obviously he's been misled to its implications.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 12:38:19 AM »

Alex,  he's talking about this passage in Mark, describing the taking of Jesus in the garden on the night of his passion...

Mar 14:46      And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
 Mar 14:47    And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
Mar 14:48    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and [with] staves to take me?
Mar 14:49    I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled. Mar 14:50    And they all forsook him, and fled.
 Mar 14:51    And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about [his] naked [body]; and the young men laid hold on him:
 Mar 14:52    And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

I guess I can understand the poster's frustration, but his notion of Jesus' 'gayness' is just a childish tantrum on his part.  Anyway, I'm sure that's the passage to which he refers...obviously he's been misled to its implications.

Yea, when looking at this from a spiritual perspective. I can definatly see it has nothing to do with being gay.

For example, i can see it refering to;

This naked man, being the gentiles for example, actualy it could be anyone! Like you and me. Remember in revelations we are told we are naked and wretched? JUST LIKE THIS MAN! Jesus said that we would ALL forsake him. This just shows that even US, the GENTILES, or ANYONE this NAKED MAN [US] forsook Jesus.

Perhapst his leaving of the linen cloth symbolizes or represents our forsaking God. As ray said, we all have to leave our first love. Maybe it represents that in us?

The other young men laying hold on Him could represent the WORLD laying hold on us, because we are not of the world, everything that is carnal, aka the world, will try and grab us and pull us away from Christ!

I don't know.. im just brain storming :P

From a physical perspective though... this guy might have just been wondering in the garden eating some fruit, having a midnight stroll, maybe he was poor and couldn't afford good clothing and so was practicly naked. I Mean.. i know i like taking midnight strolls, not naked though :P But yea.. who knows.

I highly doubt this somehow reflects Jesus being gay... I for one don't see it being that at all!

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 12:41:15 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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Robin

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 01:36:29 AM »

These are verses that God used to rebuke me when I was grumbling in the desert and when every thought in my mind was screaming out in accusations against God. I learned that I was listening to the wrong voices and learned that any voice that accuses God is not of God. I also learned that all evil thoughts come from an evil heart.

Matthew 15:18-20
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

God taught me not to listen the accusations against him through an experience I had. I was the problem and I needed to repent. I wrestled in front of God with the sin that was within me and did not wrestle with God with accusations against his character. This was evil within me that I gave to God to deal with. I learned through suffering and hardship to submit to God's will in my life. I am still learning to submit. I am stubborn and willful.

Exodus 16
1 The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they had come out of Egypt. 2 In the desert the whole community grumbled against Moses and Aaron. 3 The Israelites said to them, "If only we had died by the LORD's hand in Egypt! There we sat around pots of meat and ate all the food we wanted, but you have brought us out into this desert to starve this entire assembly to death."

Numbers 14
 1 That night all the people of the community raised their voices and wept aloud. 2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this desert! 3 Why is the LORD bringing us to this land only to let us fall by the sword? Our wives and children will be taken as plunder. Wouldn't it be better for us to go back to Egypt?" 4 And they said to each other, "We should choose a leader and go back to Egypt."

Hebrews 3
Jesus Greater Than Moses
 1Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

Warning Against Unbelief
 7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
  "Today, if you hear his voice,
    8do not harden your hearts
   as you did in the rebellion,
      during the time of testing in the desert,

 9where your fathers tested and tried me
      and for forty years saw what I did.
 10That is why I was angry with that generation,
      and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
      and they have not known my ways.'
 11So I declared on oath in my anger,
      'They shall never enter my rest.' "
 12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
   "Today, if you hear his voice,
      do not harden your hearts
   as you did in the rebellion."


 16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.



Luke 9:61-62

 61 Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family."

 62Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

Luke 9
23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 01:39:23 AM by M.G. »
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aqrinc

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 01:51:00 AM »

Whose timetable is GOD supposed to work on, ours o' man?. If you think you know then you are fully in the control of your carnal nature.

Rom 8: 6-8 (KJV)
6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Act 17: 30-31 (KJV)
30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31  Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.


1Ti 4: 1-11 (GNB)
1  The Spirit says clearly that some people will abandon the faith in later times; they will obey lying spirits and follow the teachings of demons.
2  Such teachings are spread by deceitful liars, whose consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron.
3  Such people teach that it is wrong to marry and to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten, after a prayer of thanks, by those who are believers and have come to know the truth.
4  Everything that God has created is good; nothing is to be rejected, but everything is to be received with a prayer of thanks,
5  because the word of God and the prayer make it acceptable to God.
6  If you give these instructions to the believers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, as you feed yourself spiritually on the words of faith and of the true teaching which you have followed.
7  But keep away from those godless legends, which are not worth telling. Keep yourself in training for a godly life.
8  Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future.
9  This is a true saying, to be completely accepted and believed.
10  We struggle and work hard, because we have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all and especially of those who believe.
11  Give them these instructions and these teachings.

george. :)

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 10:35:23 PM by aqr »
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bunnylife

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 04:12:55 AM »

<<Whose timetable is GOD supposed to work on, ours o' man?. If you think you know then you are fully in the control of your carnal nature.>>

I know that we can not make God change His timetable for our lives. However, I think that we can hinder Father, Daddy God by our choices in giving into the carnal nature instead of being led by the spirit of God. We can't make it go any faster but it can make it slower (in our perspective not God's). God knows of our all decisions not that He makes us choose the carnal nature. It is not pointless. God is truly Love. You say you know the Truth but have you applied the Truth to your life?

Of course, people are not going to listen.. they are blind.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 "and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness".

However, perchance there is one that is called to be the elect then your postings are not in vain. You are not there to win or debate (what is your motivation? Love?) the Truth on forums. Christ Jesus told us we would be persecuted for His name. (Mat 5:11-12)"Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you".

God will direct your steps.. they are ordered by God. Psalm 37:23 and 24, "The steps of a good person are ordered by the Lord, And He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the Lord upholds him with His hand."

You do have a part to play, it is not just only up to God to zap you.. you are not a robot or puppet.. you are a child of the Most High God being made into His image. You do have choices.. follow carnal nature or be led by the spirit of God.

Romans 8:14-15

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,(sons of God) whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2009, 09:15:39 AM »

Hi 24 Grams (interesting name) and Everyone,

A few thoughts came to mind as I read through this topic and I thought I would respond to a couple points (maybe more later).

In regard to Paul being "converted" in a few seconds after being struck blind, I guess this has something to do with how you define or perceive the word converted, or actually what really transpired. Saul was convicted of his beast nature, his carnal self righteous self and was newly conceived as Paul.

No one in this body of flesh is truly 100% converted, we are a new creature yes, but incomplete until "the change" when we receive our full inheritence.

Does Paul sound as if he believes he is a pure, holy and a completely "converted" spiritual creature?

 
 Romans 7

 14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

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arion

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 09:21:41 AM »

 
Quote
And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point?

This isn't what you want to hear right now but if you did understand everything Ray has written you wouldn't be asking the question.  I don't understand everything written on this site....as a matter of fact I feel that I'm still in Kindergarten and just barely scratching the surface.  Until you quit trying to force God's hand in things you'll probably never grow, at least thats been my experience.  Let God be God.  In time if it's his will for you he will open your spirit into deeper truths but it comes about on his time table and not ours.  There is so much I don't understand yet but I just have to be content to wait until he does, if he does.  We are the clay and he is the potter remember?
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hillsbororiver

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 11:24:04 AM »

From;
 
WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
 
Phi 2:12  “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Doesn’t that contradict this whole thing... we’re saved by grace and not of works?  Now we’re to work out our own salvation?  What is that?  How do you explain that “Of Myself I can do nothing” (John 5:30)?   And He said YOU can do nothing (John 15:5), to the apostles.  Then Paul says “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”  Well it does sound like a contradiction.  But read the next verse and He tells us why.  "For" now that word always means ‘because' or it’s another word for because.

Phi 2:13  “For (because) it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”

Some of you probably still don’t get the answer, but it is there.  "Work out your own salvation," is not the gist of that saying.  He is not saying, work out your own salvation(.)  No, He’s saying “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, that’s where the emphases is, on fear and trembling, not on work out your own salvation. 

You work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, why?  Because it all depends on God!  If God doesn’t do it, it won’t happen, IT WON’T HAPPEN!  So we live in fear and trepidation.

I cannot drive down the street, being the safest driver that I can be and know that I will avoid an accident, if God has already determined I’m going to have one.  What it doesn’t mean is you can drive down the road foolishly... or you don’t need to wear a seat belt... or close your eyes for a while... or something like that.  But you do have to act it out.  Why?  You have to, He makes you. 

He made you come out of your mother’s womb and He made you cry.  Not that He forced you, but circumstances, He brought about all the circumstances.  He made you cry, makes you grow and makes you fight with your kid brother. 

You do all these things and people reach a place where they get tired of it.  So we have plays like ‘Stop the world I want to get off.’  It's like I’ve had enough, I’m at the end of my rope and it’s the end of the line.  Well it’s only the end of the line IF God has determined it’s the end of the line. 
If say you came to that conclusion at 8:30, and He knows you won’t die until your 77 1/2, then you're not going to end it. 

That’s where the fear and trepidation come in.  It ALL depends on God, there’s nothing you can do.  But YOU have to work it out.  YOU have to get up and go to work.  YOU have to do all this stuff. 

Then you say I don’t want to anymore, well circumstances make you.
So you think, I’ll just end it all... then your child comes up and says ‘Mommie.’  Now you say, oh my gosh I have a child, I can’t kill myself I’ve got to live for my child.  You see? 

So God makes you live this life.  He makes you do all this, HE MAKES YOU DO IT.  But not against your will.  He puts you in circumstances and that’s the only way you can go.  The ONLY way!

You think, 'I shouldn’t have done this or that.'  That’s right you should think that way.  You should think that... 'I shouldn’t have done that,' because then you're learning.
 
When you learn, you will then put that into practice.  Because God doesn’t have you learn things so you can’t put them into practice.  He has you learn things so you CAN put them into practice.  But the only way you will learn them, is if you see how stupid it was, and you say if I had it to do over, I wouldn’t have done that.  So YOU HAD TO DO THEM!  Because that lead to a lot of trouble and pain and sorrow.  But did you learn your lesson?  'Well yea.'  Then don’t do it again okay, now their back on track.
 
But the whole human race does not comprehend that they do not have free-will.  They have a will based on everything that everything makes them do.  That’s their 'free' will.

When you think about this you can go crazy, because the whole thing is bizarre.
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 12:33:50 PM »

Hello 24 Grams. :)

   Take a deep breath,Take a break from your studies of the Word,Go out and about to the business that needs attention,Refresh your mind and heart,Be aware of who and what you are, and then, believe what your heart really knows,God is working in you and here's the proof. ;)

God is operating all...Because of this there is nothing to worry about...


Peace...Mark   
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 03:45:25 PM »

Hello 24 Grams. :)

   Take a deep breath,Take a break from your studies of the Word,Go out and about to the business that needs attention,Refresh your mind and heart,Be aware of who and what you are, and then, believe what your heart really knows,God is working in you and here's the proof. ;)

God is operating all...Because of this there is nothing to worry about...


Peace...Mark   

Gah.. what a beauitul post! I actualy felt joy, a deep sence of joy when i read this post.
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Nelson

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2009, 04:22:46 PM »

Hi folks,

Ah the desert! Such a barren, dry, inhospitable place. What does the desert teach us? Well, 3 things for sure,

1) "...Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Mt 4:4)

2) "...You shall not tempt the LORD your God" (Mt 4:7)

3) "...You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mt 4:10)

How much we want out of the desert and yet it is in the desert that the Lord intends to bless us,

  • "Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The beast of the field will honor Me, the jackals and the ostriches, because I give waters in the wilderness and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen." (Isa 43:18-20)

  • The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
    He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
    He leads me beside the still waters.
    He restores my soul;
    He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil;
    For You are with me;
    Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
    You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
    You anoint my head with oil;
    My cup runs over.
    Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life;
    And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
    (Psalm 23)

  • "Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, "Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." (Jo 4:10)

  • "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus" (Ro 15:4,5)

Do not trust your feelings, they will deceive and betray you. God is working in your spirit, not your flesh and it is through your weakness that He'll give you strength, in the darkness He will give light that you may see. It is not for us to decide how God should mold us,

  • "But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"" (Ro 9:20)

  • "But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence" (1 Cor 1:27-29)

The ways of the Lord are so far above our ways that mostly we do not comprehend His working in us. He knows who we ARE and it takes faith and maturity to see oneself as God sees us, both who we are in the flesh and, more to the point, who we are IN CHRIST JESUS. Who we are in Christ is already a reality, but CHRIST IN YOU is a work in progress and shall be so for the rest of our lives.

Just rest in Him for now, speak openly and honestly with the Lord and wait on Him, and if it be His will He will reveal Himself to you according to His good pleasure. Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord.

Grace and peace to you

Nelson
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2009, 04:55:56 PM »

I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!!  Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?

Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.

Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so?  Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?

I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept.... 

Hi 24 Grams,

                  I hope this thread doesn't get removed, because you are sharing your inner thoughts and being
downright honest. Is it possible you suffer from depression, I don't mean this in a offensive or disrespectfull way.
The reason I mention this is because, to some degree, you sound like me, I've suffered from Depression most of
my life, not the major kind, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work and function.

I can understand and sympathize with the feeling of " Whats the point," sometimes life seems hopeless. Just a
suggestion and that's all it is, Try to find something Spiritual about what you've learned and experienced, then
focus on that, it might help you to feel better, even if momentarily. As an example: I experience great joy when
the opportunity arises for sharing things I've learned, initially, keep it short and simple. Just the other day I met
someone I vaguely knew and was able to tell him about the eventual Salvation of All. He gave me his Email address
and said I can send some of Ray's material and the Website. Nothing may come of this, but I think there's a good
possibility, because in the past he's been fed alot of JW Watchtower information and probably realized he would
never measure up to their expectations in " gaining Salvation", so at the very least, I planted a seed, only God will
make it grow, when he's ready. However, it gave me great joy, the odds of bumping into this guy at a Jiffy Lube
and remembering him were not very good. I'm convinced it was part of God's plan.

                                       Kind Regards, Samson.
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 04:59:58 PM »

Alright, 24 Grams, it's obvious you're 'asking for it', so I'm gonna tell it to ya like it is, no 'sugar-coating':


You say: "I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear,..."

and also: "Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site"

Judging by your post, one thing is for sure, Grams, YOU DON'T 'UNDERSTAND'! NO, YOU DON'T! Sure, you may get the 'logical' part of concepts like: There's no Hell. Humans don't have Free Will. God is Sovereign over all. BUT YOU DON'T 'GET IT' SPIRITUALLY!

What? You think you're the only one that's had a rough life, Grams? You think no one else suffers as you do? YOU THINK NONE OF US HERE HAVE SINS AND CARNAL ISSUES THAT FRUSTRATE AND CONFUSE US? YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE?


Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [ that's the 'soulish--natural' mind of all humanity] is enmity [deep-seeded hatred] against God [Sound a bit familiar?]: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Paul asked the Galatians an EXCELLENT QUESTION. Now, I ask you:

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the flesh?

Do you really understand these verses, Grams? Do they make you ANGRY? Well, they should, because they WAR AGAINST YOUR CARNAL MIND. Your SOUL is AT WAR with God's SPIRIT. That's WHY you get ANGRY! And YOU ain't the first one nor will you be the last!

Now, I usually share God's Truths in a nicer more respectful way, but it's obvious 'being nice' won't due for you! You think you can leave comments here like "No offence but you folks are a little crazy..." and EXPECT NO ONE TO BARK BACK?


Nonsense! My same Teacher, who was very humble and meek, was also very BOLD when it came to dealing with people who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD! AND YOU, GRAMS, DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD!!!

Among the many commandments we have like "love your enemies", we also have this one:

Luke 10:19 Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances."

Of course, I direct this commandment of "treading upon serpents and scorpions" not toward you, directly, but the EVIL SPIRIT that deceives you...


Mat 12:34 Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.

Christ spoke well of you when He stated:

Mat 15:8 This people with their lips is honoring Me, Yet their heart is away at a distance from Me.

You claim to have been spreading the Truth in other forums. The Fact is that YOU WERE "HOLDING THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"! You have NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH! YOU SHARE THE TRUTH THAT YOU "LEARNED" WITH OTHERS, NOT TO HELP THEM, BUT TO FEED YOUR CARNAL SELF-RIGHTEOUS HEART!

You say: what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me?

What? You think all it takes is a simple "flip of a switch"? You think you can just wake up one morning and WHAM-BAM-BANG, YOU ARE NOW PERFECT? One thing is for SURE, with that kind of attitude YOU'LL BE WAITING FOR A LONG TIME!

You say: I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...

Hmm... Where have I heard this before? ...

Mat 13:3 And He speaks many things to them in parables, saying, "Lo! out came the sower to be sowing.
Mat 13:4 And, in his sowing, some, indeed, falls beside the road, and the flying creatures came and devoured it.
Mat 13:5 Yet other falls on rocky places, where it had not much earth, and immediately it shoots up, because it has no depth of earth.
Mat 13:6 Yet at the rising of the sun, it is scorched, and, because it has no root, it is withered.
Mat 13:7 Yet other falls on thorns, and the thorns come up and smother it.
Mat 13:8 Yet other falls on ideal earth and gave fruit, some, indeed, a hundred, yet some sixty, yet some thirtyfold.

Mat 13:19 At everyone hearing the word of the kingdom and not understanding, coming is the wicked one and snatching what has been sown in his heart. This is he who is being sown beside the road.
Mat 13:20 Yet he who is being sown on the rocky places, this is he who is hearing the word and straightway with joy is getting it,
Mat 13:21 yet has no root in himself, but is temporary. Now at the coming of affliction or persecution because of the word, straightway he is snared.

Mat 13:22 Now he who is being sown in the thorns, this is he who is hearing the word, and the worry of this eon and the seduction of riches are stifling the word, and it is becoming unfruitful.


You say: In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.

Well, then, LEAVE! It's obvious YOU HAVE LEARNED NOTHING!

You say: I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this.

I SINCERELY HOPE IT DOESN'T! THIS CAN BE A GREAT LESSON AND BENEFIT FOR ALL OF US!


Romans 9:18 Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening."

WHICH SIDE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE ON, GRAMS?

OH, YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY THINK THAT YOU WERE 'HARDENING' YOUR OWN HEART, BY YOUR OWN 'FREE WILL' DID YOU? Silly Goose!
 :o



II Corinthians 11:12 And what I do I WILL CONTINUE to do, in order TO UNDERMINE THE CLAIM OF THOSE who would like to claim that in their BOASTED mission they work on the same terms AS WE DO. [ESV]



May God show you the errs of your ways, IN HIS TIME, NOT YOURS,

Daywalker.  8)



I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. And I must admit I understand everything written hear, but I can't help but still question what's the point? I know God's plan and I've been posting on different forums teaching people of the truth (of course no one wanted to hear). I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Wait around for God to "change" me? How long will this take? I mean, if God has shown me the truth surely I'm one of those called now? Trust me...I've been suffering all my life, from times when I was ignorant and didn't understand. And now that I know that it was God that was responsible for this, it makes me even more angry. So ok I've suffered but what have I actually learned from this? Not much...In fact it has made me worse of person...Seeing that I was kind previous to this. I've got nothing to live for...I don't need words of encouragement...really. I'm just bored of this and to be honest right now, I'd like to pretend I'd never read any of this and continue with my old thoughts. I know Chritsians are idiots, but I know plenty of people who believe in God but do not follow the stupid teachings of Christianity.... There is no Hell....men are evil and stupid....God wants children......and? So? In fact I think this is an American thing. No offence but you folks are a little crazy....People in England actually do think a bit more about this lunacy. I think this world is just a big game that God uses to torture people...Of course he doesn't do this physically but spiritually...Mentally....Is this any really different to the Chritian teaching? If God really is burning away the ungoldlyness in me why has He so far failed? Can He really change someone (namely Saul) in thirty seconds, why can't He change me? Every time I read this- be humble, overcome, take up your cross, God is working in you b***s**t it makes me very angry!! I don't want to be part of God's family...I don't want to be here, but God is forcing me!!!  Who am I to answer to God? Some might say...But He did make me...So I might as well ask....After all this is my life He's playing with, right?

Ok, ramblings aside...Basically what I'm saying is that I have read and understand EVERYTHING written on this site...But it is void....I haven't changed....I don't feel special or anything actually....Christ hasn't given me "rest"....In fact I've been wasting my time learning all this stuff...Because I have other things to do.

Apparently evil is only "temporary" (and it will end? When exactly? When we get bored of it?). God "wills" for us even though we can't feel it (seems strange no? So all my failings...I'm a lousy cook, a bit stupid, are actually God's faults), we'll all be "resurrected" from the dead (but we must die first? Why? Because when we're dead we can't ask for compensation for this b***s**t?), we're only suffering because God is supposedly "chastising" us (but apparently some lucky folks get to live the good life now and get the SAME chastening later)....Why should I believe any of this nonsense....Because its written in Greek? Because it has a long tradition? Because someone says so?  Showing kindness to people means you'll get walked all over...I don't hate anyone but do I really have to love them? Jesus only had male Disciples and constantly referred to men all the time "God wills all MEN to be saved" "we will become SONS of God" "you will be fisher of MEN" All the prophets were men ( I'm not one of those feminist types...after all I am a man)" Jesus the Son of MAN" ..........And finally I'm not sure which Gospel it is but when Jesus is being led away by the roman soldiers it mentions a man, who is not mentioned previously ANYWHERE in the other verses who is half naked apart from a thin peice of clothing. This person is identified in one of the apocrytal books and suggests...and ultimately leads to my final question. Doesn't Jesus appear a bit gay to some of you?

I mean I DO believe in a higher force, but I believe that either God doesn't notice our existence or God just doesn't care and is concerned with something else........Because I just don't buy this concept....  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 05:04:02 PM by daywalker »
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Ninny

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 05:29:44 PM »

Daywalker...very well said!
24 Grams...back up! You are contradicting yourself at every turn! You understand, NO you don't! God is dragging you around by the hair of your head and He will continue to drag you until you are where He wants you! None of us can clarify it, or soften it, or explain it to you! That is God's job! He will drag you back time and time again and then you will get it! Don't worry about God! You are not frustrating Him or annoying Him, you are not baffling Him, or shocking Him! You are like a little child who wants his own way! Well around here it's GOD'S way! We are all here because one way or another God dragged us here! So consider yourself loved by God...favored by God...If He loves you enough to go to so much trouble for such a befuddled worm as yourself you can bet your sweet bippy he has a reason for it! Don't go around acting like the Lone Ranger, like you have some heretofore unknown secret about God which the rest of us have no clue of! Please, get a grip...a TIGHT grip because if God brought you here you could be in for a bumpy ride, dude!

We are all in this lifeboat together and that's just the way it is! Settle back and read and listen and if you're quiet you may hear God speaking to you!
Not trying to mean or hateful, but if you're sick of it, you're sick of it but put your complaints before God and get on with it! I do appreciate your honesty, because you know that's what God requires of us honesty! He hates lying because lying and deceit are totally against His character!
I am not trying to talk down to you or be disrespectful of your feelings. God gave you all those feelings you have, He intends for you to be thoroughly in line with His will at the end of all of this! You will find that here at BT we will love you unconditionally because that's how God loves all of us!
Kathy :)
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 05:45:29 PM »

Well daywalker said it best and is completley right;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Words of wisdom!

God bless,

Alex
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 05:47:22 PM »

thanx Ninny [& Alex.. saw your post afterwards...]...

Oh, and a few more passages for Grams:

II Peter 2:20 For if, while fleeing from the defilements of the world by the recognition of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet, being again involved in these, they are being discomfited, their last state has become worse than the first."

21 For it were better for them not to have recognized the way of righteousness, than, recognizing it, to go back to what was behind, from the holy precept given over to them."


Mat 13:17 For verily I am saying to you that many prophets and just men YEARN to perceive what you are observing, and perceive not, and to HEAR what you are hearing, and hear not.


What God has shown you is an AMAZING GIFT... yet YOU TURN IT INTO A CURSE! Have you ANY IDEA what you're doing? May God be merciful when judging you,


Daywalker
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 06:15:02 PM by daywalker »
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musicman

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2009, 08:44:47 PM »

Wow, just wrote up a big reply and the damn thing was posted to another entry.  So I deleated it.  Talk about being p'd.
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: I'm sick...
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2009, 09:44:42 PM »

I doubt if Grams is around to read any of this, but it is a wonderful thread, full of love, inspired teaching, and rebuke...I needed all of it.  Arion, I have been here for 3 years but I am still w/ you in Kindergarten!  Daywalker, that was a God driven post if I ever saw one, Jacobs Ladder, thank you for bearing your soul to us, Nelson, so good to hear from you, your scripture was a balm for my soul, Alex, Ninny- I just love reading your posts, I usually identify w/ them, Marky Mark that was right on, Aqr and Joe and Bunnylife thank you for your in put.  Hope I didn't miss any one.(well, Musicman)

  Even tho meant for Grams, I really needed this discussion.  My last day of school was today, and I am so tired-exhausted body, mush brain tired.  and I was just thinking I am so "tired" of it all...our country, my life, anything, everything...yes, sick of it all.  I read this thread and some others and ....ta da......JESUS IS LORD....He makes all things new every morning...He refreshes my soul....He owns me!!! 

Then.....I go and see that Ray is answering his e mails in his own sassy style and my heart just overflowed.  All's right w/ the world again.

thanks and blessings to you all.

If Grams is reading (or leaves) this thread should cure you of what ails you...if not, you really don't wanna be cured!!

Love, your sister in Christ,
gena
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