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[brok54]

I'm so thankful God is causing Gram to have issues.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have posted and Daywalker wouldn't have had an opportunity to respond.  I don't know if Gram is going to get it, but it came thru loud and clear to me.  Awesome!

[Robin]

John 6

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

 68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."


Thank you all for this thread. It gave me a lot of encouragement to press on. 

[Marlene]

Hello, I was reading in Psalm's tonight. There are many scriptures that tells us to wait. Well, waiting can be hard. But, waiting teaches patience. Every generations has had to learn to wait. Patience is a part of enduring, and being long suffering. We are all going to face trials. We all want to be changed quickly. But, God is teaching us. There is something marvelous waiting for us if we wait. Wait patiently. We will produce the fruit of endurance if we wait patiently.

God has been patient with the whole earth. Our Trials are to grow us Gram. He is not doing this to hurt us. I look at it as if I learn it now, and endure I will not have to go through his wrath. You act as if there is nothing to gain by waiting. Well, others from generations have had to wait. You have to decide do I go back to living as I please or do I trust God and wait on him to do his work in me.

Here are some verses to think about.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 27 verse 14 Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 33 verse 20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord: he is our help and our shield.
Psalms (KJV) Chapter 37 verse 34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off, thou shall see it.
Psalm (KJV) Chapter 37 verse 7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prosperth in his way, because of the man
who bringeth wicked devices to pass

Micah Chapter 7 verse 7 Therefore I will look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my Salvation: my God will hear me.
Galatians Chapter 5 verse 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Romans  Chapter 8 verse 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
                          verse 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within waiting for      
                                      the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body
                          verse 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
                          verse 25 But, if we hope for that we see not, then  do we with patience wait for it.

There are so many othr verses I could give you about waiting. Waiting brings patience and patience causes us to endure.
I don't know about you Gram, but I am so happy our God waits patiently with us. If, we are  to be chosen we need to know how to love, and be patient and endure to the end. We, will be helping judge the majority of humanity. They will have to go through everything we do. But, its with Gods wrath and more severe.

You have been shown truths in your life time now. What, a gift from God.

This vese might help you Psalms 34 verse 19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.

If, you believe these truths you have found here of God, why would you want to take the cares of life back on you and also be worse off then before.

I was wondering, if you have read  How Hard is Getting Saved by Ray. If, not I advice you to start reading all his things. Only, God can helps us over come the beast in us. It is a process and hard work, but God is able.

Well, I agree with all the others. I believe, they all Love and care about you and your walk with Christ. Did you really think it is easy? Was it easy for Jesus.
I know, there are people who have been through way more then me. But, I have faith that God is able to take me through any storm, I have been through quite a few.  Take your eyes off of self and put them on Christ. Wait on him.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Roy Martin]

24 grams will be back after he has had some time to chew on everything posted here.
  Grams are you surprised that your post didn't get removed?  I look forward to hearing from you again.

Peace
Roy

[southland]

I wish I could boast that I have read all Rays teachings and understanding everything  .

I can't concentrate for more than 5 minutes to put posts up here, but what I have read of Ray's teachings I understand and believe in.

There are alot nice people on here Grams that have lots of knowledge about Rays teachings.

Matt

[jassy]

This really has been a wonderfull thread. and needed, methinks by many. Was going to post last night but decided against it. Glad I did not, what has been said here by all of you is what needed to be said.

I have also been very tired of everything going on lately, country wise, economy wise, everything wise, and though I have matured enough not to blame God I have been rather partial to the idea of going home to Him. Not suicide, please dont misunderstand but just going home.
Last night I cried, have not done that in a long time, but it came to a head in a way.

this bible verse was given to me today and I would like to share it with my brothers and sisters.
Habbakuk 3 verse 17 to 19

Though the fig tree may not blossom,
nor fruit be on the vines,
though the labour of the olive may fail,
and the fields yield no food,
though the flock may be cut off from the fold,
And there be no herd in the stalls,

Yet I will rejoice in the Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation.

The Lord God is my strength,
He will make my feet like deers feet
And He will make me walk on my high hills.

Thats enough for me, I am still here because God wants me here, and I am gratefull that I am.

God bless you all
j

[aqrinc]

Hi jassy & Jacobs Ladder,

It is good that you and i have learned this Truth. Your feelings of wanting out are not unique, I am many times at that same crossroad, as we all are at times, when we see our predicament and do not perceive the end goal.

The yearning and groaning for the consummation of this suffering, learning and growing age is ever present in every believer.

Ecc 1:13 (CLV)
I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ecc 4:8 (CLV)
There was one person, but there was no second; There even was no son or brother for him; Also there was no end to all his toil, Yet his eyes were not satisfied with his riches. Then he said, For whom am I toiling And making my soul lack good? This too is vanity, and it is an experience of evil."

Look at Paul, as he is ministering in later his years:

Php 1: 9-27 (GNB)
9  I pray that your love will keep on growing more and more, together with true knowledge and perfect judgment,
10  so that you will be able to choose what is best. Then you will be free from all impurity and blame on the Day of Christ.
11  Your lives will be filled with the truly good qualities which only Jesus Christ can produce, for the glory and praise of God.

12  I want you to know, my friends, that the things that have happened to me have really helped the progress of the gospel.
13  As a result, the whole palace guard and all the others here know that I am in prison because I am a servant of Christ.
14  And my being in prison has given most of the believers more confidence in the Lord, so that they grow bolder all the time to preach the message fearlessly.

15  Of course some of them preach Christ because they are jealous and quarrelsome, but others from genuine good will.
16  These do so from love, because they know that God has given me the work of defending the gospel.

17  The others do not proclaim Christ sincerely, but from a spirit of selfish ambition; they think that they will make more trouble for me while I am in prison.

18  It does not matter! I am happy about it---just so Christ is preached in every way possible, whether from wrong or right motives. And I will continue to be happy,

19  because I know that by means of your prayers and the help which comes from the Spirit of Jesus Christ I shall be set free.
20  My deep desire and hope is that I shall never fail in my duty, but that at all times, and especially right now, I shall be full of courage, so that with my whole being I shall bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die.

21  For what is life? To me, it is Christ. Death, then, will bring more.
22  But if by continuing to live I can do more worthwhile work, then I am not sure which I should choose.
23  I am pulled in two directions. I want very much to leave this life and be with Christ, which is a far better thing;

24  but for your sake it is much more important that I remain alive.
25  I am sure of this, and so I know that I will stay. I will stay on with you all, to add to your progress and joy in the faith,
26  so that when I am with you again, you will have even more reason to be proud of me in your life in union with Christ Jesus.

27  Now, the important thing is that your way of life should be as the gospel of Christ requires, so that, whether or not I am able to go and see you, I will hear that you are standing firm with one common purpose and that with only one desire you are fighting together for the faith of the gospel.

george .

[Marlene]

Hello, And this is why I come here. I come to be with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ who think like me. Last, night my Mom was watching Billie Grahams Son on TV . He said," People have asked him since 9/11 and the  hurricane Katrina , if this is Gods judgement on America. He said, he did not know, but that we defintely have problems in our country. At least, it was not like his Father who said, He did not think so.

But, it is really hard for me to listen to any of them. They sound ok at first and then they go on and boom. This is hard for me to listen too.

I am glad we have each other. We have more in our life then when we were in Babylon. I don't know about all of you guys, but most in churches don't care if they spend much time with you. They go and leave and never seem to want to spend time too much with someone going through trials.

I think, we all long to be out of this world from time to time, but God will decide that.

I am blessed that my Husband never took on much of Babylon's believe. I pray for all of you that long for your spouse to believe like you.

One last thing, since being in here, I have witnessed how God is growing you all. So, never be afraid to tell us how you feel or struggles you are having.
I cannot think of a better place to be or a better teacher then Ray is. We are blessed indeed!

In His Love ,
Marlene

But, I have family who are upset with me.

Well, I just love you all and keep you in my prayers. Each and everyone of you on here have something that helps me and others on here.

We are all in this together. When, one has problems we pray. When, others are ill we pray. It is a everyday battle.

I thank God everyday, that he led me in here and I have a church family like you all.

In His Love,
Marlene

[hillsbororiver]

I marvelled when I first came to realizing the truth (even though I've never really trusted the church or most people for that matter any way) but now this has all worn off and I'm back to normal again...very angry with life...not confused though, but STILL angry.
 

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
 
Rev 10:9  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
 
Rev 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Think about it....

Peace,

Joe

[aqrinc]

That is so true Joe,

The Words are sweet, very great promises to come in the future. Now as we have to live (Eat the book) it is a bitter and painstaking life we live with the daily food (book).

george.

[firefly77]

Hello everyone,
Just wanted to express my appreciation to all who have contributed to this thread. It was very timely for me and a relieve to know I am not alone feeling discouraged or wishing the ongoing struggles would end and God would see it fit to just let me get off this circus wheel. I am so glad He knows what He's doing and ignoring my carnal desires.
As to patience and long-suffering, this world system teaches us to have everything now... today! However, we don't develop patience this way. Quite the contrary is true, it feeds our carnal nature, and we become little spoiled brats very fast.

I have been sitting at my computer for several days in a row to read much more than I usually do of all the material that is available on this site.
Going to college full-time is one of the reasons I have not contributed to this forum lately. School and learning occupied most of my days. I just finished another 6 months of study and was at the end of my rope... physically, emotionally, spiritually worn out... I became irritable, angry, moody and felt like I was not safe for human consumption anymore.
The college wanted me to jump right into another semester but I refused. I was "dead" in more than one way.
Just reading all your posts, "hanging out" with all of you and being fed by the Word has brought back some of my much needed sanity.
24 Grams, you are not alone. Consider yourself blessed that God brought you here and is showing you the Truth.
Angie

[daywalker]

That is so true Joe,

The Words are sweet, very great promises to come in the future. Now as we have to live (Eat the book) it is a bitter and painstaking life we live with the daily food (book).

george.

I second that! Thanx Joe.

The Truth is so amazing.. yet living it is so hard, rather impossible for us to do alone.. hence we need God's Spirit to overcome.


Isaiah 33:14 Sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling has seized the godless. Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?


Daywalker.   

[Beloved]

Good post everyone , we all have our moments like 24 grams but like Job we have to remember who is the Creator and who is the creature

We all need to mediate on the word  murmuring in the scriptures

The wilderness expererience was certaining easy example to see the futility of such behavior.

In the new testament ...it was still going on, the pharisees were the most vocal but those listening were doing it and so too today.

For those who Rest in the Total Sovergnity of the Father

Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Php 2:14  [size=140pt]All things do without murmurings and reasonings[/size],

Php 2:15 that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God, unblemished in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse, among whom ye do appear as luminaries in the world,

The faithful are to become salt and luminarie....that means that in themselves theys do nothing .....but let the power of the Father work through them.

beloved

[bunnylife]

This thread and those who have posted has been such an encouragement of love and reprove. It lets me know now what a PRECIOUS GIFT knowing the TRUTH and to handle with care and love. What an HONOR by Father God, not of myself but all glory to Him that chooses to show the TRUTH. It is truly the pearl of great price. Matt 13:45,46  "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls,  who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

The field of the hidden treasure. Matt 13:44  "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

I thank God each for my brothers and sisters than bring forth pearls of wisdom that God Himself birth in each of you. We all do hurt but we know that we have boldness to come before the throne of grace

Hebrews 4:16 "Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need".  to the Father and as a child to my Daddy God to sit upon His lap and tell Him I hurt. And He wraps His arms around me as I lay my head to hear His heartbeat. I feel the warmth of His Love in His presence... I also feel the coolness of the refreshing like the spring rain. And He whispers so soft and lovingly.. everything will be OK. You have my Word. I am once again strengthen and renewed with Hope.

Isaiah 40:31 "They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint" 

In His Joy,
Bunni

[judith collier]

24 grams, is this right? I totally understand how you feel. I am a bit late here and everything seems to be cleared up. We are only human, remember that. We are not perfected yet and in my case I wonder sometimes, if ever, but that's quite the norm. That wondering, I mean. And I do know what you mean when you say"what good is all this chastening when you are worse than before". Someone said here, "take a break, get away from it all for awhile" That's the only thing that really helped me and maybe a good night's sleep. I understand God's word both spiritually and intellectually but as of now I just want to back off for awhile. It has been a day I would rather forget. I did learn something though from this day and that is I am not tough enough but rather too easy on people who never say they are sorry and consequently I get "the works" over and over. I will not argue but act the next time.    judy.

[Astrapho]

Just wanted to pop in and say that this thread is amazing.

I was on the verge of falling into the same state as you, 24 Grams. But I had to humble myself and keep reminding myself that I'm not the one who will tell God how to do His job. I'm only the clay. And what Daywalker said on the 2nd page really pressed many positive buttons.

I'm hoping to see you again Grams.

[Phil3:10]

24 Grams,
I thank you for starting this thread and feel most of us at times begin to doubt. However, I think daywalker really hit the nail on the head. It is GOD, all is GOD, and all is in HIS time frame. Look around you and you will be able to find many in much worse condition than yourself. Be thankful because GOD can change all any time HE wants for either  better or worse.
We can't tell GOD how to run HIS creation. We can only marvel at HIS greatness and await HIS perfect promises. Day to day living can be hard with a few pleasures and lots of pain and suffering. However, GOD tells us that those who love HIM will receive suffering but the good things that are waiting for us makes this suffering well worthwhile.
Phil. 2:13 says it best, "For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do HIS good pleasure." I trust GOD alone to accomplish for me what I can't do for myself and am assured that HE is able. If we all could totally surrender everything to GOD our life would be so much better. Our real life will be attained at the resurrection of the dead.

[indianabob]

Good response Brad,

Well thought out, simple and I think helpful.

Bob

I know this thread will probably get removed...but I'm tired of this. I've read most of the information on this site. . . .

Hi 24 Grams,

                  I hope this thread doesn't get removed, because you are sharing your inner thoughts and being
downright honest. Is it possible you suffer from depression, I don't mean this in a offensive or disrespectfull way.
The reason I mention this is because, to some degree, you sound like me, I've suffered from Depression most of
my life, not the major kind, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work and function.

I can understand and sympathize with the feeling of " Whats the point," sometimes life seems hopeless. Just a
suggestion and that's all it is, Try to find something Spiritual about what you've learned and experienced, then
focus on that, it might help you to feel better, even if momentarily. As an example: I experience great joy when
the opportunity arises for sharing things I've learned, initially, keep it short and simple. Just the other day I met
someone I vaguely knew and was able to tell him about the eventual Salvation of All. He gave me his Email address
and said I can send some of Ray's material and the Website. Nothing may come of this, but I think there's a good
possibility, because in the past he's been fed alot of JW Watchtower information and probably realized he would
never measure up to their expectations in " gaining Salvation", so at the very least, I planted a seed, only God will
make it grow, when he's ready. However, it gave me great joy, the odds of bumping into this guy at a Jiffy Lube
and remembering him were not very good. I'm convinced it was part of God's plan.

                                       Kind Regards, Samson.

[aqrinc]

Just have to comment on this thread again.

24 Grams,

Just want to thank you and encourage you, for your post that started this thread. I am amazed at what the difference of a couple weeks make in discerning, from all the contributions by my sisters and brothers here.

Rom 8:28 (GNB)
28  We know that in all things God works for good with those who love him, those whom he has called according to his purpose.
29  Those whom God had already chosen he also set apart to become like his Son, so that the Son would be the first among many believers.

30  And so those whom God set apart, he called; and those he called, he put right with himself, and he shared his glory with them.
31  In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us?

32  Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son---will he not also freely give us all things?
33  Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty!

34  Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right side of God, pleading with him for us!
35  Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death?

36  As the scripture says, "For your sake we are in danger of death at all times; we are treated like sheep that are going to be slaughtered."
37  No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved (Loves) us!

38  For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future,

39  neither the world above nor the world below---there is nothing in all creation that will ever be able to separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord.

george.

[lauriellen]

WOW! thanks to all who posted on this thread....i know i am REAL late to comment, but i just wanted to say how great ALL the posts were and so honest.....gooooood stuff!
lauriellen