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Author Topic: Why?  (Read 3006 times)

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jennie

  • Guest
Why?
« on: October 17, 2006, 11:07:41 PM »

I hope me asking this isn't throwing any gas on a fire but here goes. Michael and I were talking about just why it is that most churches have stained glass windows and a lot of fancy stuff in them. We were trying to think back to the very old european churches and how fancy they are. Does anyone know why it is thought to be needed for churches to look like that.  Thanks ya'll, Jennie
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 11:25:33 PM »

Hello Jennie,

Not sure about the historical reasons for those things, but they are running a business and need to draw as much attention to themselves as they can.  And a tax exempt business at that.   :D

That outward spiritual look has a draw to the carnally minded and they come by the droves, to fit in, and be accepted for their belief.

God bless,

Gary
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 11:37:06 PM »

Didn't they start out to be the " stages of the cross"  in Catholic beliefs, then as the church got more rich & powerful so did the windows. Of course the middle ages went absolutely nuts with how big & fancy their cathedrals got. You can't believe how many gargoyles & demonic looking creatures were engraved all around the bldg.( Catholic or not they were very superstitious.)  It proved to everyone how powerful your region or town was.  The little wooden church out in the village was for losers.
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 12:24:00 AM »

Gena, your explanation was great, and it fits very well with what Gary said about the Church becoming businesses.

I guess they ignored the following:

Jhn 2:13-16

And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,  And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

You then said the following:

The little wooden church out in the village was for losers.

I know they type, the one that doesn't have a real pastor because they can't afford one. Or the pastor works a real job (just like Paul)

Kind of fits with the following don't you think?

Mat 19:30
  • But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.


Stained Glass - For what reason other than to appear first.

It always amazed me why the "big" churches demanded money and not goods and services, like the little churches would accept.

Very interesting, thanks for your thoughts :)

Darren
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 12:28:16 AM »

Thanks Darren!

Now that I think about it, what with TBN & all the mega-churches around, not much has changed in 1500 years! ::)

gena
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SteveW

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2006, 10:43:01 AM »


Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola is a good reference for the origins of the "church",  buildings, players and practices.  You will be appalled.  Ray has covered some of the same material, but Viola's book is a good resource -- it is well documented and footnoted.  The book started me on my quest that led to Ray's site.

Steve
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2006, 10:55:41 AM »

The short answer is windows were needed for light and ambiance, since the Cathedrals were an extension of Roman traditions it was heavily influenced by contemporary Roman design techniques.

Here is a secular review of the history of stained glass in churches;

http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/ArtHistory/StainedGlass/history.htm

Joe
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Lacey23

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2006, 10:03:13 PM »



This is interesting..... that you bought up the subject about churches investing $$ into stained windows.  I was conversing with a couple of friends a couple days ago, about how churches has gone too far with materialistic things, investing money into their church buiildings, special programs, etc. while the money being invested in those stuff,  could have went to people who needed it the most. I.e. medical bills, or for when people are low on money or whatever happens, that money should be made availlable to them whenever needed.

When the discpiles asked for a special collection from the congreations, they ask that the money be directed to people who need it.

I don't mean to put down the churches, no offense intended against them, it is just what i see, and am disgusted by it.

I've been going to different churches my whole life, and one of the issues I had a problem with most of them were the issue of  tithing, that is because I felt that the money should go to poeple who need it, so instead of giving to the churches, I just redirect the money to whoever need it- whenever the cirucmstances come up, to help them, in any way I can.   God says to do it out of the goodness fo your heart, not be compelled to do it becuase you need to,  I have no problem helping people because it gives me happiness knowing that they are being helped.  I wonder why they  invest  money into stained windows, their own church bulidings, programs, etc,  instead of helping people,  what's the benefit in that? maybe to inspire people into paying more in tithiang??  Whatever  their intentions are. You know I was thinkiing days ago, that  if churches would just do what God and Paul asked them to do, then their town, esp their members would have been well taken care of, esp when a sick member needs medical care, and the bills would have been taken care of right away because they had the money to do so.  Sadly this is not the fact in today's society.  But I'm glad that the world will be a better place one day  when Jesus rules the earth, imagine peace all over, the world, with no wars- no dieases, no deaths, that's a dream waiting to come true.


Lacey
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brothertoall

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2006, 09:01:08 AM »

Lacey,

 What a wonderful thing to do. Helping those that truly need the help.

 I have thought about this often and wonder if I could ever get up enough nerve to try this one day.

 I would like to go to one of these mega churches and take on the appearence of someone that is homeless just to see what reaction I would get. Would I be shuned because I wasn't wearing a Botony 500 suit or a nice Citizen watch and jewlery with gold and diamonds.

 Would I have a pew all to myself and maybe even asked to leave. I would hope that maybe one person out of the 100's that were attending would come over and welcome me with open arms.

 It is like this: It looks real nice on the outside but within is dead mans bones!

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

brothertoall



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jennie

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2006, 01:59:30 PM »

Thanks to all of ya'll for the info. I might have shared this story with you before I can't remember... Michael got a letter in the mail from this well known t.v. preacher. The letter was asking Michael to show his faith and give a "seed(?)" offering! Michael wrote the man back and told him we were drowning in medical bills . Then Michael told the fellow to show his faith by sendfing us  a little of his millions to pay our bills. You know just a little "seed" offering!!! Needless to say we are still waiting to hear from him!!! I cracked up when Michael told me what he had done! Jennie
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snorky

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 10:36:05 PM »

I took an art history class many years ago and uses Jansen's huge fat text "History of Art". One of the reasons for the outward signs of stained glass and the gargoyles and the like was to attract wealthy patrons (Borgias, De Medicis. etc.) and employ the great artists of the day. All carnal, all the time. I wouldn't attend a megachurch (and neither will my son, who now goes to college in a medium sized city...in fact right now he's not going to church! Praise God) if it was the last place on earth. In fact, speaking of tiny wood churches "for losers"...that sounds like mine!  If Jesus leads me out of it (and only if He does! I've had to grapple with this for some time), I'll leave it. But this is the kind of church, for the most part, that really does behave much of the time as a body of Christ. When someone of low income (and in West Texas near the border, this means practically everyone) needs medical bill help, we all chip in what we can. And our pastor actually does have a real job (installs satellite internet) and so does his wife (from Russia, by the way...he met her doing missionary work there after Communism fell) who helps him. And no buying or selling is allowed there, either. If someone brings squash or whatever, it is free and given to all who want some. Even has FREE cemetery plots...you don't even have to church there!--snorky
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2006, 11:03:16 PM »

BrotherToAll wrote:

Would I have a pew all to myself and maybe even asked to leave. I would hope that maybe one person out of the 100's that were attending would come over and welcome me with open arms.

It is like this: It looks real nice on the outside but within is dead mans bones!

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.



Bobby, my eldest step son is a member of a local Baptist Church choir, and they are magnificent. Many times we have went to the church and listened to them and sat in on a sermon or two. The people are wonderful, open, friendly; everything that I hadn't seen for a very long time. My wife and I feel the same way about churches, but because of our younger son, thought the fellowship in this church would be beneficial for him.

So we decided to check out the church and attended one or two of their study groups. My wife went to the women's and I to the men's. Enough said! One study put me with a guy who could sprout scripture like he was born with it, but he had no idea what it mean't. It wasn't his fault, but he was clueless. My wife found the same with her group, just a room filled with talking heads.

No amount of sound doctrine made the slightest difference, so we canned that idea. Just goes to show, what you see is not what you get.

Well said Bobby, :)

Darren
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