> General Discussions
Sinning before birth?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on June 10, 2009, 11:43:52 AM ---Marques,its not that I do not understand the verse,but how could anyone of the Spirit not see that Jesus is saying that all is of and for the Father,and not of some past life in a pagan belief system. ???
--- End quote ---
Well, like Ray teaches about the Jews during Christ's ministry, they took on a lot of pagan beliefs...that's why the apostles asked about 'past sin in another life', how the Scribes did not believe in resurrection, the belief in marriage after resurrection, and other such heresies.
Marques
aqrinc:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on June 10, 2009, 08:35:32 AM ---Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents [that is 'sinned to cause this blindness']: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
I may be missing the boat some where along the line here with these verses.
In all of the numbers of time that I have come across these verses in John,I can honestly say that "The transmigration of souls" pagan belief had not ever even crossed my mind.I had always thought the answer was always the very next verse "but that the works of God should be made manifest in him". Is my line of thought concerning"who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? not answered plainly by Jesus?
Is not ALL from God? ???
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
Yes Mark,
I am in agreement with your statement, it just appears to be a question because of your comment at the bottom. My understanding and Rays teaching and The Scriptures; match up with your statement.
george. ;D
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Linny on June 10, 2009, 11:56:55 AM ---Since we are asking questions...
Quote from Ray (which I am in total agreement with)
"If I am to be healed, it will be abundantly clear that it is God’s accomplishment, and not mine. Healing is linked to the forgiveness of sins, and only GOD can forgive sins—that is, to make them go away and nullify their harmful effects (Mark 2:5-12)."
Mar 2:5
(ASV) "And Jesus seeing their faith saith unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins are forgiven."
"So the sinning idea was strictly manmade..."
Yes, the pagan idea of soul shifting but the idea of sin/sickness appears to be Scriptural. Am I missing something?
--- End quote ---
Linny,
Are you asking if healing is linked to forgiveness of sins like Ray states here? In what way do you believe them to be linked? Is that your question or is it something else?
Marky Mark:
Kat,thank-you,the apostles were not yet converted. Living in the age we live in sometimes one can forget that information was at a premium,ie; no computers ;D :o.
Marques and George, thank you also ;)
Peace...Mark
Kat:
Hi Lin,
I found this email that I think might help about out state at birth.
http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm --------------
There is NO FREE WILL IN MAN. Man has a "CARNAL MIND." Do you doubt what I say? ALL MEN ARE BORN WITH A CARNAL MIND!
I believe there is a Scripture somewhere on that... Let's try Rom. 8:2,
"For the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus have MADE ME FREE..."
No, that is not what Christendom and her High Priests teach. They teach that we are BORN FREE. That EVERY MAN HAS A 'FREE' will. But notice what this Scripture says, it takes a "LAW" to MAKE [when something 'MAKES' a person do something, he is no longer 'free' to do otherwise]... to MAKE "me FREE" Paul tells us. Now then, what does this "Law of the Spirit" MAKE us free from?
"..from the LAW if sin and death."
Another "LAW"! Do you realize just what a law is? A law is something that ALWAYS works in the same predetermined manner. Hence the Law of Gravity--which ALWAYS pulls things DOWN and not UP.
The 'law of sin and death' is a downward pull that NO CARNAL MIND CAN RESIST. Therefore, the idea that he possesses a free will that can CHOOSE TO NOT BE PULLED DOWN, is unscriptural foolishness!
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh [the flesh is weak and it cannot 'free-will' itself to be anything BUT weak and totally incapable of TURNING TO A GOD WHO IS STRONG], God sending His Own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk NOT after the [weak] flesh [which always turns away from God] but after the Spirit [which is STRONG and ALWAYS turns toward God].
For they that are after the flesh [a LAW of the flesh] do mind the things of the flesh [why? why don't they us 'free-will' themselves NOT to 'mind the things of the flesh?']: but they that are after the Spirit [the LAW of the Spirit] the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded [that's how we are all born--first the natural, the carnal, then the afterwards the SPIRITUAL, I Cor. 15:46] is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace. [And just why is that so?]... Because the carnal mind is enmity [deep-seated HATRED] against God [how can this be since the carnal mind is FREE to NOT hate God?
The carnal mind is NOT FREE, it CANNOT freely choose to NOT HATE GOD. That takes another LAW--the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, NEITHER INDEED C-A-N BE. [This verse says that the natural carnal mind of ALL MANKIND, absolutely CAN NOT 'freely choose' to follow and love God!]. So then they that are IN THE FLESH [Randy, every single person ever born is born IN THE FLESH] CANNOT please God. [They CANNOT! If they truly had a "free will" then they could 'freely WILL' TO PLEASE GOD, couldn't they?] (Rom. 8:3-7)
No, Randy, they couldn't, because they have no such will that is "free." We all have a "will" alright, but is is anything but FREE. It follows the "law of the flesh" every time. Only the opposing force of the SPIRIT OF GOD can CAUSE MAN'S WILL to desire God and to voluntarily seek to please God. Yes, I voluntarily will to please God, but not because some phantom 'free will' allowed me to make that choice, but rather because "God DRAGGED ME to Christ" (John 6:44). And how thankful I am that He did. No, Randy, there will not be a FEW in heaven and the MAJORITY in hell for all eternity. God commissioned Jesus Christ to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.
----------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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