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Jesus and perfection

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ez2u:
I just finished reading Lake of  Fire 4
What a blessing  i just want to say,  different parts of it , how it is written, you can feel the Love of God in the writing and the love of the truth.
Now I have a question  i understand about  how Jesus was not made sin  i got that  but what i am wondering is  with his flesh and his spirit when was he perfect?  from the beginning or after his resurrection?  peggy

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: ez2u on June 16, 2009, 10:33:44 PM ---I just finished reading Lake of  Fire 4
What a blessing  i just want to say,  different parts of it , how it is written, you can feel the Love of God in the writing and the love of the truth.
Now I have a question  i understand about  how Jesus was not made sin  i got that  but what i am wondering is  with his flesh and his spirit when was he perfect?  from the beginning or after his resurrection?  peggy

--- End quote ---


Jesus is/was/will be always perfect as His Father is/was/will be always perfect...as God is perfect, Christ is as well seeing that Christ is the 'express image' of God. Christ is not His Father but He also is not 'independent' of His Father in that He does not do anything of Himself.


John 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1 Cor 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

John 14:10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 17:8  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


Hope that helps,

Marques

Kat:

Hi Peggy,

Just thought I would add these Scriptures.

2Cor 5:21  For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin (offering) for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1Peter 2:22  He committed no sin; no guile was found on His lips.

1John 3:5  And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

To me these Scriptures seem clear that Jesus Christ never sinned.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

deftarchangel:
Not to be contentious, but is being sinless the same as being perfect?  I was always of the belief that Christ was, in fact, not perfect, but was made perfect through the suffering He endured (which extended even up to His crucifixion, which means that He became perfect after His resurrection).  Our definition of perfect and God's definition of perfect, not surprisingly, could be miles apart!:

Hebrews 2:9-11
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.  Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverent submission.  Although He was a son, He learned obedience from what He suffered and, once made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.

I could be wrong though, and welcome any corrections to this belief.

 :)  

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: deftarchangel on June 17, 2009, 01:16:31 PM ---Not to be contentious, but is being sinless the same as being perfect?  I was always of the belief that Christ was, in fact, not perfect, but was made perfect through the suffering He endured (which extended even up to His crucifixion, which means that He became perfect after His resurrection).  Our definition of perfect and God's definition of perfect, not surprisingly, could be miles apart!:

Hebrews 2:9-11
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.  Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and He was heard because of his reverent submission.  Although He was a son, He learned obedience from what He suffered and, once made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.

I could be wrong though, and welcome any corrections to this belief.

 :)  

--- End quote ---


Sin means to 'miss the mark'...but 'miss the mark' of what? To miss the mark of perfection...to be sinless is perfection.

Remember, Christ 'emptied' [Gk. kenoň] Himself of all deity or divinity...He then asked His Father to give that glory back to Him.

John 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Phil 2:6-9  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation [Gk. kenoň], and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [KJV]

Phil 2:6-9  who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name [ASV]

Remember, Christ does not even SPEAK independent of the Father...that's how 'One' they are. Christ is the express image of the Father in every single way imaginable...and as the Father is perfect, so is the Son. The Father speaks through the Son.

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 5:29  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28  Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


Hope this helps,

Marques

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