Paradise

[orion77]

(1Ki 8:30)  And You shall listen to the supplication of Your servant, and of Your people Israel when they shall pray toward this place; yea, You shall listen in Your dwelling-place, in Heaven; and You shall hear and shall forgive.

(1Ki 8:34)  then You shall hear in Heaven, and shall forgive the sin of Your people Israel, and shall bring them back to the land that You gave to their fathers.

(1Ki 8:39)  then You shall hear in Heaven Your dwellingplace and shall forgive and shall act, and shall give to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You have known, You alone, the heart of all the sons of Adam),

(1Ki 8:43)  You shall hear in Heaven, Your dwellingplace, and shall do according to all that the stranger calls to You for, so that all the peoples of the earth may know Your name, to fear You like Your people Israel, and to know that Your name has been called on this house which I have built.

(Psa 29:9)  The voice of Jehovah causes the does to calve; and He uncovers the forests. And in His temple it all is saying, Glory!

(Mal 3:1)  Behold, I am sending My messenger, and He will clear the way before Me. And the Lord whom you are seeking shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Angel of the Covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He comes, says Jehovah of Hosts.

(2Co 6:16)  And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27

(Rev 3:12)  The one overcoming, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more. And I will write the name of My God on him, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven from My God, and My new name.


His dwelling place and temple...

God bless,

Gary

[chrissiela]

Good verses Gary!!

[lilitalienboi16]

(Rev 3:12)  The one overcoming, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more. And I will write the name of My God on him, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven from My God, and My new name.


His dwelling place and temple...

God bless,

Gary

i jsut had a revalation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think lol

I don't know what im on too here, but i saw a connection.

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
Gen 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
Gen 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.


Does anyone see anything i see, i think therse something here i could be completely wrong because im not even sure what i see but for some reason this came to mind as if there was a connection.

God bless,

Alex

[orion77]

(Psa 74:19)  Oh deliver not the soul of thy turtle-dove unto the wild beast: Forget not the life of thy poor for ever.

(Son 2:12)  The flowers appear on the earth; The time of the singing of birds is come, And the voice of the turtle-dove is heard in our land;

(Son 2:13)  The fig-tree ripeneth her green figs, And the vines are in blossom; They give forth their fragrance. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

(Son 2:14)  O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, In the covert of the steep place, Let me see thy countenance, Let me hear thy voice; For sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

(Son 5:1)  I am come into my garden, my sister, my bride: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk. Eat, O friends; Drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

(Son 5:2)  I was asleep, but my heart waked: It is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled; For my head is filled with dew, My locks with the drops of the night.


Beautiful stuff here, wow, glad you brought this up, Alex.


(Son 6:9)  My dove, my undefiled, is but one; She is the only one of her mother; She is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and called her blessed; Yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

(Mat 3:16)  And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;

(Luk 3:22)  and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


This answers a question in another thread, about paradise and the garden.  Interesting.


(Son 4:12)  A garden shut up is my sister, my bride; A spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Son 5:1)  I am come into my garden, my sister, my bride: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk. Eat, O friends; Drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.


Lots more here, for sure.

God bless,

Gary

[lilitalienboi16]

lol im happy i actualy said something useful

Btw, my parrellel was with what you had said above Orion, what i quoted you saying about revalations. Just incase you weren't sure exactly what i was saying

God bless,

ALex

[orion77]

Alex, glad you said something.  It's always good to learn new things from the word.  Like hunting for buried treasure, never know what we will come across.

God is so good, He makes us seek and search, ask and be given, knock and it will be opened.  Truly amazing.

God bless,

Gary

[eutychus]

acsend and descend dont mean up and down, the way we think.

there are unseen particals all around us :shock:

while heaven isnt physical it is LITERAL.

[chrissiela]

Hi Ray, How are you? Christine here. I have a question (or comment) regarding an email that was posted recently in the forum about paradise and heaven.

In an exchange with Scot you said (bold are mine):

….. “DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden." …..

Doesn’t 2 Cor 12:2-4 refer to paradise as “the third heaven�?

2Co 12:2-4 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Not asking on an explanation of what/where is paradise, as I know you said this in not on the top of your priority list and you will write about it sometime in the future… just bringing this to your attention, as it drew some questions.

Thanks,
Christine

Dear Christine:
Exactly. But don't think that the "third heaven" is a geographical location higher than the first or second heaven. What is heaven? Where is heaven?
God be with you,
Ray

Hi Ray;

Sorry, I did not realize until now that you have answered my earlier email (copied below). I sent it from work so will not see the reply until I return to work on Monday.

But I just saw that it was posted on the forum.

You Said:

"Exactly. But don't think that the "third heaven" is a geographical location higher than the first or second heaven. What is heaven? Where is heaven?"


No, I do not think that the third heaven is a geographical location higher than the first and second heavens. However I do see it being higher (or "far above") all other heavens. But I see these as spiritual realms and not physical locations. With the third heaven (or Paradise of God) being where Christ is seated at the right hand of God and where we are seated with Him (spiritually speaking).

It is by and through the blood of Christ that we now have access to the Father and may "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may abtain mercy".

The veil has been rent and the heavens have been opened. I sort of see it at the Holy of Holies (or the Holiest Place), spiritually speaking...


Psa 11:4  The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

1Ki 22:19  And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Rev 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.


There are probably a lot more scriptures that I could point to but I'll just finish it up with these in Ephesians, as I see the "third heaven" as being "far above all principalities and power and might and dominion... ":


Eph 1:17  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:21  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


I see the third heaven as "the heaven of heavens".... "far above all heavens".... where Christ ascended and where His throne is.


Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)



I wasn't trying to add confusion. I only asked because of my own confusion over your statement about paradise not being heaven or likened to heaven in the scriptures. That threw me off, based on 2 Cor 12:4 and the other verses that I mentioned, but specifically 2 Cor 12:4.

I see now that you agree that paradise is the third heaven? Or am I still confused?


Blessings,
Christine

Dear Christine:
When I said I would do a paper on this, I didn't mean now. I will not try to write my paper one section at a time in emails. Hope you understand. You could have quoted the nearly 700 Scriptures on heaven, and it still would not prove you point.
God be with you,
Ray

Christine feels insulted....  :cry:  :cry:

Dear Ray,

As I said, I wasn't trying to get you to write a paper. Neither was I trying to prove a point, except that paradise is mentioned in the scriptures in relation to the third heaven (whatever and whereever that is).

Forgive the intrusion, I was merely trying to clear up what appeared to be a contradiction in what you said, as it caused some confusion.

Thank you for your time,
Christine

Then she ponders it somemore.... and feels like an even worse 'idiot'!!  :roll:   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  

Hi Ray:

Christine again.

I think I just realized where I was reading this wrong... may I ask another question for further clarification to be sure?

You said:

….. “DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden." …..

When I read: "In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven?"

It sounded as if you were were saying that there was NO way in which the scriptures liken paradise to heaven... because of the statements that immediately preceeded that statement....

Now I am seeing (?) that you are asking "in what way DO the scriptures liken paradise to heaven?" (which is covered in the 2 Cor 12:4 - that I sent).

And 'this' is what you meant by "Exactly." ??

If so, then I think that does clear up the confusion.

Blessings,
Christine

I think that clears it up.... but I am still waiting on the reply....

Chrissie

[ciy]

Alex, the next verse Gen. 8:12 says he sent the dove out and it did not return.  I believe the next time in the scriptures that you see a dove lighting on something is at the baptism of Jesus.

Pretty interesting.

CIY

[mercie]

Hi Ray, How are you? Christine here. I have a question (or comment) regarding an email that was posted recently in the forum about paradise and heaven.

In an exchange with Scot you said (bold are mine):

….. “DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden." …..

Doesn’t 2 Cor 12:2-4 refer to paradise as “the third heaven�?

2Co 12:2-4 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Not asking on an explanation of what/where is paradise, as I know you said this in not on the top of your priority list and you will write about it sometime in the future… just bringing this to your attention, as it drew some questions.

Thanks,
Christine

Dear Christine:
Exactly. But don't think that the "third heaven" is a geographical location higher than the first or second heaven. What is heaven? Where is heaven?
God be with you,
Ray

Hi Ray;

Sorry, I did not realize until now that you have answered my earlier email (copied below). I sent it from work so will not see the reply until I return to work on Monday.

But I just saw that it was posted on the forum.

You Said:

"Exactly. But don't think that the "third heaven" is a geographical location higher than the first or second heaven. What is heaven? Where is heaven?"


No, I do not think that the third heaven is a geographical location higher than the first and second heavens. However I do see it being higher (or "far above") all other heavens. But I see these as spiritual realms and not physical locations. With the third heaven (or Paradise of God) being where Christ is seated at the right hand of God and where we are seated with Him (spiritually speaking).

It is by and through the blood of Christ that we now have access to the Father and may "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may abtain mercy".

The veil has been rent and the heavens have been opened. I sort of see it at the Holy of Holies (or the Holiest Place), spiritually speaking...


Psa 11:4  The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

1Ki 22:19  And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Rev 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.


There are probably a lot more scriptures that I could point to but I'll just finish it up with these in Ephesians, as I see the "third heaven" as being "far above all principalities and power and might and dominion... ":


Eph 1:17  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:21  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


I see the third heaven as "the heaven of heavens".... "far above all heavens".... where Christ ascended and where His throne is.


Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)



I wasn't trying to add confusion. I only asked because of my own confusion over your statement about paradise not being heaven or likened to heaven in the scriptures. That threw me off, based on 2 Cor 12:4 and the other verses that I mentioned, but specifically 2 Cor 12:4.

I see now that you agree that paradise is the third heaven? Or am I still confused?


Blessings,
Christine

Dear Christine:
When I said I would do a paper on this, I didn't mean now. I will not try to write my paper one section at a time in emails. Hope you understand. You could have quoted the nearly 700 Scriptures on heaven, and it still would not prove you point.
God be with you,
Ray

Christine feels insulted....  :cry:  :cry:

Dear Ray,

As I said, I wasn't trying to get you to write a paper. Neither was I trying to prove a point, except that paradise is mentioned in the scriptures in relation to the third heaven (whatever and whereever that is).

Forgive the intrusion, I was merely trying to clear up what appeared to be a contradiction in what you said, as it caused some confusion.

Thank you for your time,
Christine

Then she ponders it somemore.... and feels like an even worse 'idiot'!!  :roll:   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  

Hi Ray:

Christine again.

I think I just realized where I was reading this wrong... may I ask another question for further clarification to be sure?

You said:

….. “DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden." …..

When I read: "In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis(e) to heaven?"

It sounded as if you were were saying that there was NO way in which the scriptures liken paradise to heaven... because of the statements that immediately preceeded that statement....

Now I am seeing (?) that you are asking "in what way DO the scriptures liken paradise to heaven?" (which is covered in the 2 Cor 12:4 - that I sent).

And 'this' is what you meant by "Exactly." ??

If so, then I think that does clear up the confusion.

Blessings,
Christine

I think that clears it up.... but I am still waiting on the reply....

Chrissie

Chrissie.

Im sure Ray will do a paper one day on it to clear it up.

[chrissiela]

oh, come on  :roll: ... I wasn't the ONLY one who thought Ray was saying that the scriptures DO NOT liken paradise to heaven was I??  :oops:  :oops:

If so... surely no one else stepped up or waved any flags to say hey S-T-U-P-I-D you're reading that wrong!!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I can admit when I am wrong.... or being S-T-U-P-I-D.  

Chrissie  

(And one day I'll figure out where/what heaven is???   :oops:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:)

[Daniel]

No your not alone Chrissie. I'd just prefer rather not express it. Being that difference in points of veiw really dont bother me. I agree with what you shared, I truly did. I get blessed by my own study and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, no one stands in that "holy place" but Him. It would be standing where one ought not in that regard.

I'd say be blessed sister with the insight God has given you, it blesses me immensely and I know others would say the same. I say this "to build up" (not tear down) the confidence that should be placed in that anointing to teach you, its true and is no lie. Dont let anyone steal your confidence in "that". The apostles spoke of "that" and "to that". If that trust in what the holy Spirit is showing you is broken, who else would you rely upon except that which we are not to, namely man amen?

So I encourage you, study to show yourself approved unto God not men. Thats what we all should be doing.

Peace and Gods rich blessings upon you sister

Daniel

[mercie]

oh, come on  :roll: ... I wasn't the ONLY one who thought Ray was saying that the scriptures DO NOT liken paradise to heaven was I??  :oops:  :oops:

If so... surely no one else stepped up or waved any flags to say hey S-T-U-P-I-D you're reading that wrong!!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I can admit when I am wrong.... or being S-T-U-P-I-D.  

Chrissie  

(And one day I'll figure out where/what heaven is???   :oops:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:)

Chrissie

I agree and posted after you, and your far From Stupid.

You just put the keys to the Post , it could have easily been mine to Him.

I feel for you .

[chrissiela]

No Chrikstine, that is not what I meant at all. Sorry. I'll explain in the future in an article.
God be with you,
Ray

Chrissie

[orion77]

Chrissiela, not sure if you caught a previous post, concerning the garden and these verses.  Maybe they can help you.

(Son 5:1)  I have come into My garden, My sister, My spouse; I have gathered My myrrh with My spice. I have eaten My honeycomb with My honey; I have drunk My wine with My milk. Eat and drink, O friends; yea, drink fully, beloved ones.

(Son 5:2)  I sleep, but my heart is awake. It is the sound of my Beloved that knocks, saying, Open to Me, My sister, My love, My dove, My undefiled. For My head is filled with dew, My locks with the drops of the night.


(Son 6:1)  Where has your Beloved gone, most beautiful among women? Where has your Beloved turned? For we seek Him along with you.

(Son 6:2)  My Beloved has gone down to His garden, to the terraces of spices, to feed in the gardens and to gather lilies.

(Son 6:3)  I am my Beloved's, and my Beloved is mine. He feeds among the lilies.

(Son 6:4)  O My love, you are as beautiful as Tirzah, as lovely as Jerusalem, awesome as bannered armies.

(Son 6:5)  Turn away your eyes from Me, because they have overcome Me. Your hair is like a flock of goats that lie down from Gilead.

(Son 6:6)  Your teeth are like a flock of ewes which come up from the washing place, of which they all are bearing twins, and a bereaved one is not among them.

(Son 6:7)  Your temples behind your veil are like a piece of pomegranate.

(Son 6:  Sixty of them are queens, and eighty concubines, and virgins without number.

(Son 6:9)  But My dove, My perfect one is one alone. She is the only one to her mother; she is the choice of the one who bore her. The daughters saw her and called her blessed; the queens and the concubines saw her, and they praised her.


Not sure if this helps, but if it does, let me in on it.   :lol:  :lol:

God bless,

Gary

[chrissiela]

Hi Chrissie,

I do not think anyone wants you to jump off of a bridge, but I do have a question, who has denied you any right to present scripture in dispute of statements made on Bible Truths?

This is quite an accusation, maybe you intended it as a joke, but take into consideration new people coming to this Forum because of what they read on Bible Truths and the first post they read is yours.

If anyone at all has denied you the right to post a scripturally sound rebuttel please let me or any other moderator know, this is a serious accusation and I will not be a party to anyone standing in the way of doing what the Bereans did, check the Word for themselves.

If we are guilty of that, I am gone!

Joe

It's not an accusation Joe.  :shock:

I'll delete it from my post.

(PM to follow)

Chrissie

PS (edited in - for the benefit of anyone who DID read the post before I removed most of it)

I was not trying to "rebut" Ray. I thought I AGREED with him, until I read his statement to Scot, that I found confusing/contradictory in light of 2 Cor 12:2-4. I was trying to get clarification, ONLY. I'm sorry I didn't  :oops:  , but maybe someone else did. I wasn't making fun of anyone other than MYSELF. I can't imagine anyone thought, or would think, that I was actually going to go out and jump off of a bridge.  :roll:

[chrissiela]

Thanks Gary,

I think maybe this isnt the place for me to study this... But I appreciate the input.  Any new 'revelations' and I'll be sure to pm you.  :lol:  :lol:

You do likewise!  :wink:

Blessings,
Chrissie