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Author Topic: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope  (Read 6163 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« on: June 20, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »


Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Yeah, right. People that make our lives miserable, cheat, lie and steal from us, talk behind our backs, rumor monger, laugh at us when we are hurting, ignore any positive things we say or do. Sure, we can just turn on a switch and love 'em to death right?

Wrong.

No way.

We cannot of ourselves sincerely and honestly do this, it is impossible.
 
 
Luk 18:27  And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Does He zap us one day into forgiving, cheerful people who are truly capable of loving those who offend us? Or is it a process, a step by (sometimes very painful) step progression?

Rom 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
 
Rom 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 
Rom 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
 
Rom 5:4  And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Why is it we must learn to have patience with and love people who make our lives miserable, God could change them if He wanted to, or remove them from our day to day lives but no, they are right there in our face causing anxiety, frustration, maybe even worse. What makes it even more maddening is that it always seems like these people get what they want, it seems like they are the ones getting all the blessings, what's up with that? Why must I be punished for circumstances I had no part in creating, especially when I am not looking for conflicts with anybody? 

Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*st*rds, and not sons.
 
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Yeah but it sure would be nice to have some recognition for my wit, accomplishments, talent, intelligence and get some accolades and respect from people, not to mention better pay, a bigger house and a cool car to tool around in. People way worse than me have all these things and more and others actually give them compliments on their achievements! 
 
1Co 3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
 
1Co 3:20  And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
 
1Co 3:21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

It sure does not seem like much of anything is mine when I compare myself to others.

2Co 10:12  For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Then who exactly are the wise?

Jam 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

I think I might be beginning to see what this is all about, where do I go from here now, how are these wonderful things accomplished in me?

2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

"When I am weak, then I am strong," there certainly is something counter intuitive, even weird, about statements such as this. ???

Isa 28:21  For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
 
I have to admit becoming a better, wiser man on my own certainly isn't cutting it. I guess I really do need to just trust in Him day by day, minute by minute actually, staying in the faith (of Christ), even though I don't understand it all, some of it doesn't even make a lot of sense to me, I need to put away this old man and strive for the new creature in Christ that we have been promised.

 Romans 8

 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

 36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

 37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen!

Peace to you all,

Joe





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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 03:23:57 PM »

Joe, great post.

  The things that you speak of concerning the virtues of the Spirit, of which only God can bestow upon us lowly creatures of habit and shame, speaks volumes about where we as children of the Most High need to be going ,albeit, by the Divine direction of our Father.
  As I walk through my daily struggle of the flesh and the worldly nature of my existence,I feel it such an honor to be able to see and understand[because of Him] that which my God deems necessary in my life for me to continue on the path of the straight and narrow.
  My Father is most assuredly in charge of my steps and the molding of my Spiritual clay.And,for sure, His ways of forming, squeezing, the throwing about,and the slapping around of my carnal ways on His most high Holy potters wheel sure can make one a little 'black and blue' :) . All things through God and for God is a condition that has me wanting more of the same :o.When we stop judging ourselves, I believe,we can lose sight of what the Potters intentions are,to make righteous sons and daughters to the Glory of the Father.May the Lord Bless us all in the knowledge and understanding of His ways.

All Praise and Glory to the Most High.


Peace...Mark
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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2009, 03:35:26 PM »

The problem as I see it, We unfortuntley keep listening to that Old Dead Man....he/she keeps us focusing on the carnal aspects of out lives....our jobs, reputations, homes belongings, relatioships.

The spiritual realm that controls the physical world is attacking our faith nd our health and physicl elements of our lives.

We have been told that there is a battle going on right now. Stay on Guard and get your armor on.

We need to pray and rest on the things provided by the Father to us in this life...we need to continue studying the word, be involved in ferverent prayer and look for Rest in the Father that al of these things are under His control and that he wil be our Strength.

Tibulation Persecution and Enemies that hate us.....are a given

Luk 9:62  And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

beloved
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2009, 04:53:26 PM »

Thankyou Joe,

                    The Lord does provide for Our Spiritual needs, with this thread, he has done just that.
This Spiritual food that you provide in this thread is timely and appropriate, at least for me, it was.
Lately, my two main character flaws(Patience & Tolerance) are being tested, refined and certainly
exposed for what they are and indeed it's very emotionally painfull, so below I leave you with a copy
and paste in blue of the Sub-Heading that stood out and is most applicable to my present experience.


Why is it we must learn to have patience with and love people who make our lives miserable, God could change them if He wanted to, or remove them from our day to day lives but no, they are right there in our face causing anxiety, frustration, maybe even worse. What makes it even more maddening is that it always seems like these people get what they want, it seems like they are the ones getting all the blessings, what's up with that? Why must I be punished for circumstances I had no part in creating, especially when I am not looking for conflicts with anybody? 

Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*st*rds, and not sons.
 
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby




             Thanks Again & Timely Too, Samson.
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2009, 05:59:57 PM »

Well said Joe  :)


Rom 13:10-14  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.



Marques
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Akira329

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  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2009, 06:37:21 PM »

I really need this today.
I get so tired of people causing me anxiety, frustration, anger, sadness, and depression.
Its very maddening when those who do this to you seem to be highly blessed in there lives.
I so agree Joe!!
Its not easy loving them either.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbor! Gosh I believe this which is why I keep trying.
And if one of these people decides not to deal with anymore or you them, another is right around the corner awaiting their chance to pounce on you. Isn't life grand!! I guess I speak as a fool.

Nevertheless I do not doubt its working in me!

I thank you every now and then would be nice though.

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2009, 06:52:08 PM »

Joe,
This all has reminded me of an old hymn...To know that God is in control even over the dark places and the hard places wherever we are whatever we do.. God has provided for our every need in every circumstance! We live moment by moment, each day, knowing that there is no situation with which God is not familiar



   1. Dying with Jesus, by death reckoned mine;
      Living with Jesus, a new life divine;
      Looking to Jesus till glory doth shine,
      Moment by moment, O Lord, I am Thine.
          * Refrain:
            Moment by moment Iím kept in His love;
            Moment by moment Iíve life from above;
            Looking to Jesus till glory doth shine;
            Moment by moment, O Lord, I am Thine.
   2. Never a trial that He is not there,
      Never a burden that He doth not bear,
      Never a sorrow that He doth not share,
      Moment by moment, Iím under His care.
   3. Never a heartache, and never a groan,
      Never a teardrop, and never a moan;
      Never a danger but there on the throne,
      Moment by moment He thinks of His own.
   4. Never a weakness that He doth not feel,
      Never a sickness that He cannot heal;
      Moment by moment, in woe or in weal,
      Jesus my Savior abides with me still.



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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2009, 07:28:25 PM »

Joe, great post.

  The things that you speak of concerning the virtues of the Spirit, of which only God can bestow upon us lowly creatures of habit and shame, speaks volumes about where we as children of the Most High need to be going ,albeit, by the Divine direction of our Father.
  As I walk through my daily struggle of the flesh and the worldly nature of my existence,I feel it such an honor to be able to see and understand[because of Him] that which my God deems necessary in my life for me to continue on the path of the straight and narrow.
  My Father is most assuredly in charge of my steps and the molding of my Spiritual clay.And,for sure, His ways of forming, squeezing, the throwing about,and the slapping around of my carnal ways on His most high Holy potters wheel sure can make one a little 'black and blue' :) . All things through God and for God is a condition that has me wanting more of the same :o.When we stop judging ourselves, I believe,we can lose sight of what the Potters intentions are,to make righteous sons and daughters to the Glory of the Father.May the Lord Bless us all in the knowledge and understanding of His ways.

All Praise and Glory to the Most High.


Peace...Mark


Hi Mark,

What you wrote speaks to any and all things that can and do become stumbling blocks in our respective journeys. Yes, when we lose sight of why the Potter deems it necessary to nudge, poke and put pressure on His lumps of clay and then when we might think we have arrived or are a completed work off to the kiln we go for a dose of spiritual fire!

It is a wonderful thing to have the opportunity to discuss these things with like minded believers, He has truly blessed us and others who have been given an opportunity to contemplate and share His really Good News!

The problem as I see it, We unfortuntley keep listening to that Old Dead Man....he/she keeps us focusing on the carnal aspects of out lives....our jobs, reputations, homes belongings, relatioships.

The spiritual realm that controls the physical world is attacking our faith nd our health and physicl elements of our lives.

We have been told that there is a battle going on right now. Stay on Guard and get your armor on.

We need to pray and rest on the things provided by the Father to us in this life...we need to continue studying the word, be involved in ferverent prayer and look for Rest in the Father that al of these things are under His control and that he wil be our Strength.

Tibulation Persecution and Enemies that hate us.....are a given

Luk 9:62  And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

beloved

Hi Dr. Carol,

Our enemies or even those who make it a mission to tear down others in an attempt to elevate themselves have no clue that they are actually doing two things; inadvertently setting the bar on how they might be judged and being used by God to help us lose our own stubble, imperfections and rough spots, like sandpaper on a specially crafted, one of a kind masterpiece created by the Master Craftsman.

If only we could keep this perspective as we experience these trials.  ;)

Thankyou Joe,

                    The Lord does provide for Our Spiritual needs, with this thread, he has done just that.
This Spiritual food that you provide in this thread is timely and appropriate, at least for me, it was.
Lately, my two main character flaws(Patience & Tolerance) are being tested, refined and certainly
exposed for what they are and indeed it's very emotionally painfull, so below I leave you with a copy
and paste in blue of the Sub-Heading that stood out and is most applicable to my present experience.


Why is it we must learn to have patience with and love people who make our lives miserable, God could change them if He wanted to, or remove them from our day to day lives but no, they are right there in our face causing anxiety, frustration, maybe even worse. What makes it even more maddening is that it always seems like these people get what they want, it seems like they are the ones getting all the blessings, what's up with that? Why must I be punished for circumstances I had no part in creating, especially when I am not looking for conflicts with anybody? 

Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*st*rds, and not sons.
 
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby




             Thanks Again & Timely Too, Samson.


Hi Samson,

Ah yes, that patience thing.  :-[

Never one of my strong points..... but He has shown me I can indeed show patience when I stay focused on Christ! There really has been progress for me in this matter, I hear it from time to time from the wife, daughter, relatives and friends (even coworkers) when a situation arises that used to send me into a ballistic, over the top rant, or worse.

It can be a very rewarding spiritual experience when we (through His Spirit) overcome a slight or insult or blatant callous stupidity with a kind word or even a peaceful silence.

Well said Joe  :)


Rom 13:10-14  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.



Marques

Thank you Marques,

I love this bit you quoted from Paul; "for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."

I need to remember this each and every day, one day closer......

I really need this today.
I get so tired of people causing me anxiety, frustration, anger, sadness, and depression.
Its very maddening when those who do this to you seem to be highly blessed in there lives.
I so agree Joe!!
Its not easy loving them either.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbor! Gosh I believe this which is why I keep trying.
And if one of these people decides not to deal with anymore or you them, another is right around the corner awaiting their chance to pounce on you. Isn't life grand!! I guess I speak as a fool.

Nevertheless I do not doubt its working in me!

I thank you every now and then would be nice though.

Antaiwan


Hi Antaiwan,

Let me thank you for your friendship and also for all the encouragement and kind words you have sent in my direction through the years. Although we are not in constant contact you are someone I have valued as a real friend ever since we met a few Conferences back, there is an unassuming friendly spirit within you that I have found to be consistent and comforting to me. That others within your circle of family and friends that do not or cannot perceive this is their loss, not yours.....

His Peace to you and all,

Joe

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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2009, 07:39:24 PM »

Joe,
This all has reminded me of an old hymn...To know that God is in control even over the dark places and the hard places wherever we are whatever we do.. God has provided for our every need in every circumstance! We live moment by moment, each day, knowing that there is no situation with which God is not familiar



   1. Dying with Jesus, by death reckoned mine;
      Living with Jesus, a new life divine;
      Looking to Jesus till glory doth shine,
      Moment by moment, O Lord, I am Thine.
          * Refrain:
            Moment by moment Iím kept in His love;
            Moment by moment Iíve life from above;
            Looking to Jesus till glory doth shine;
            Moment by moment, O Lord, I am Thine.
   2. Never a trial that He is not there,
      Never a burden that He doth not bear,
      Never a sorrow that He doth not share,
      Moment by moment, Iím under His care.
   3. Never a heartache, and never a groan,
      Never a teardrop, and never a moan;
      Never a danger but there on the throne,
      Moment by moment He thinks of His own.
   4. Never a weakness that He doth not feel,
      Never a sickness that He cannot heal;
      Moment by moment, in woe or in weal,
      Jesus my Savior abides with me still.





Hi Kathy,

So true, and such a source of spiritual strength that is our Lord!

It is really beyond comprehension what the Father and Son have done to secure a perfect creation, the painful trials and tribulation we experience are shared by Them as well. The 2007 Nashville Conference really brought this home for me.

Thanks to Kat's diligence we can review it right here; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Peace,

Joe

 
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 11:19:46 PM »


Hi Joe, Mark, Antaiwan, beloved, Samson, Kathy,

Hope These Scriptures add something to this thread. All the trials and tribulations we suffer are really not for anything but to bring us to the humility of knowing that we are nothing without GOD, and we are everything in Jesus Christ, that our FATHER GOD And our Lord Jesus Christ will have us be.

Yes because we are yet in the flesh, we are subject to all the fleshly fears, needs and desires. But there is no need to stay there as GOD HAS Shown us how, and HE enables us to Rest In Him Now.

Today if you hear HIS VOICE, harden not your heart as did the israelites in the desert.


2Co 5: 6-11 (CLV)
6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord"
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."
9 Wherefore we are ambitious also, whether at home or away from home, to be well pleasing to Him."
10 For all of us must be manifested in front of the dais of Christ, that each should be requited for that which he puts into practice through the body, whether good or bad."
11 Being aware, then, of the fear of the Lord, we are persuading men, yet we are manifest to God. Now I am expecting to be manifest in your consciences also."

Heb 3: 7-15 (ASV)
7  Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8  Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9  Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
10  Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
11  As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12  Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
13  but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
14  for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
15  while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

george. :)

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Akira329

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  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 11:45:01 PM »

Joe thank you so much for those words
I feel really encouraged by them.
Your truly a blessing to this forum my friend! :)

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Marlene

  • Guest
Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 11:46:12 PM »

Joe and Everyone. This has been such a great post.

A few weeks back, I went to see my Brother and he asked us if we were going to church. I told him no and I was not going back. He knows, I do not believe in Hell. But, I would not go up against him because he thinks he knows everything about the Bible. I did ask him one time previous to this, if he had the power to save his children from hell after death what would he do. He never answered me. I told him that I could not look at someone begging me to forgive them and not give them a chance from such a terrible place. I was trying to show him Gods love for humanity.

But, this last time he attacked me about not going to church and paying my tithe. This time I was in his home not mine. But, My Mother and Husband knows I did not even mention anything to him except when he asked if I was going to church.

Well, I know for a fact that the Holy Spirit was working in me. My Brother told me to get out of his house. I calmly said, "OK". I know that the whole time he was talking the Holy Spirit told me he has concern for you because he really believes in Hell. I use to believe it also. That, helped me to remember I use to not be any better and that I could be standing there acting like him.  The only pain about the situation is not for me but for him because he just does not know, but he really sincerely thinks he knows who God is. I just pray God shows him he does not know him. But, that is all up to God.

What, really made my day though was when my husband said, I was so shocked to not see you stand up to him and go off on him. I told him how could I do that I use to believe all that stuff too. The Holy Spirit reminded me of it. It was the only time I can truly say I was presecuted for Christ and he provided every thing I needed. I did not have to have my way to prove him wrong. My Husband told me he is a proud man and if he does call me it will take a miracle. Well, if it is Gods plan for a miracle it will happen.

Over, the years I have watched my Husband turn the other cheek over and over.  I always wanted that trait. Well, God is giving it to me. The next part is getting over the hurt from ones you love especially. I know, many of you in here are dealing with that everyday in your own household by a spouse.
I will keep you in my prayers as I know this is an everyday battle. I don't have to live with my Brother. But, we face presecution any time we tell someone the truth who believes lies. Be it on the job , home or any other place where we deal with humans. It really made me happy that my Husband is seeing me as a different person who is looking over the faults of others and that I am looking at God for this help and not myself trying to fight the world.

Beloved, is so right when we look back at the dead man it is not for our good. But, looking at God is making us into the New Man. It just makes me so Happy cause I really see God is changing me and it makes me want to keep in the race.

It also, just makes me so blessed to have all of you who are in the fight. Those who can give me support to stay in the race . Those who can show me with love when I am lacking, because of there own experiences. Well, I thank God often for all of you. You, are a family I would really miss.

In His Love,
Marlene



I



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G. Driggs

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 12:49:49 AM »

Thank you all my Brothers and Sisters! I have to agree, because you all speak the Truth.

All the glory is His.

Much Love and Peace to you all, keep on hoping! :) G.Driggs

Luk 6:20  And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Luk 6:21  Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Mat 5:1  And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2  And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3  Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4  Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 01:24:56 AM by G. Driggs »
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Linny

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2009, 01:01:48 AM »

JOE! I cannot believe the timing of this post. You just gave my husband the most excellent Father's Day gift! Your opening post couldn't more closely mirror what he is dealing with right now!
When he gets up tomorrow, I'll sit him down with this before him.
Sometimes (many times) God's beautiful wisdom comes across better from someone besides your wife... ;)
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! Oh, and of course, THANK YOU God!  ;D

Blessings, Lin
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cjwood

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2009, 02:56:58 AM »

dear joe,
as i sat here and read your comments in blue, then read the Scriptures you provided, i felt like i was sitting in on a conversation you were having with our Father. i mean it was like you would ask a question or make a comment, and the Spirit would then make a comment or ask a question about exactly the thing you were talking about. i was completely in awe and completely blown away at the same time. your thread was one of the most inspiring ones i have seen on this forum in a very long time. every person who reads it can relate to it in their own personal lives in one way or another. whether we work outside the home, or whether we don't, whether we have a believing spouse or whether we don't, whether our families and friends accept what Truths we have been shown, or whether they don't, whether we are suffering physical illness or not; your thread answers all of it!!!

i want to thank you dear Abba Father for working through our brother joe to bring forth these timely Truths for our inspiration and to increase our faith and trust in You. and thank you Father for sending us a Personal Savior who can and does work in our hearts and minds as we stand on Your promises. thank you Father for providing through your Spirit the armor we need to battle through our daily lives. thank you Lord God for your Scriptures and for the Spirit of Jesus Christ within each of us whom You did predestinate to become fellow heirs with Christ and the honor of being Your children. in the sweet Name of Jesus Christ. amen.

claudia
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firefly77

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2009, 11:25:39 AM »

Joe and all,
Thank you for such a timely post  :). It is comforting to know that God deals with all of us here in the same way.
Quote
Why is it we must learn to have patience with and love people who make our lives miserable, God could change them if He wanted to, or remove them from our day to day lives but no, they are right there in our face causing anxiety, frustration, maybe even worse. What makes it even more maddening is that it always seems like these people get what they want, it seems like they are the ones getting all the blessings, what's up with that? Why must I be punished for circumstances I had no part in creating, especially when I am not looking for conflicts with anybody?
I can soooo relate. I am actually making progress by keeping my mouth shut and not responding in kind or worse. I have learned to step back and to hand the relational problems to God. I am not saying that I don't feel the pain anymore, but since I know that God orders my steps and He is control of all things, I view it as a disciplinary step and am much more peaceful about it. When I think about how much God has forgiven me, I have no room to talk.

Angie
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 10:54:08 AM »

Thanks to all who responded and added to this topic, I am sure some of us have struggled with patience as well as empathy from time to time, some more than others. It is fascinating to hear some of the theologies that promote "petitioning God" for material success, popularity and all the carnal worldly things that would come with it rather than recognizing that these struggles must be met head on and fought tirelessly as we wear the armor of His Spirit.

Saturday morning when I wrote down the first post in this thread I was thinking about a hypothetical situation where someone who was distraught over their particular circumstances had the opportunity to question the Spirit of our Lord as well as voice their frustration.

Sometimes it will take me 20 or 30 minutes to write even a paragraph or two in response to a question or comment but this one just flowed out in record time as the questions, doubts and frustrations as well as the scriptures that would answer the them seemed to fall right into place.

Since reading, rereading and reading again about the "beast within" I have not only learned who is the real enemy of my spirit (I only need to look in the mirror) but that I must stay in constant communication with His Spirit if I have any hope of growing past this worldliness.

Peace,

Joe
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Amrhrasach

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2009, 12:12:31 PM »

Thanks to all who responded and added to this topic, I am sure some of us have struggled with patience as well as empathy from time to time, some more than others.

Since reading, rereading and reading again about the "beast within" I have not only learned who is the real enemy of my spirit (I only need to look in the mirror) but that I must stay in constant communication with His Spirit if I have any hope of growing past this worldliness.

Peace,

Joe

This "struggle" that you speak of, Joe, seems ever constant.  I suppose some frustrations can be so deeply rooted that overcoming is often times a distant journey, or seems distant, and the "fruits" often seem non-existent or not growing.     So, at least for me, I do so agree (now) that without being in constant touch with his spirit the fruits will not grow.   The last couple of days I've been thinking of the fruit that we are to have and show and I truly do believe, now, that any fruit simply can't be produced unless he plants the seed and waters it for growth.  Opposite that, all the worldly "you can help yourself" psycho babble is just that.  Babble.  Smoke and mirrors.  Feel good for a while, nothing permanent, nothing with foundation.  I don't see this "fruit" so much of the time and I pray even without that sight that it is growing.  I pray for a time, as Ray teaches, we will reach a time of looking back and then see from where we've come, even the fruit.   The beast lives proudly and for me, as you say, I too only must look in the mirror to see him.   There's no way to skip over the challenges and growth we must all journey through and sometimes it's so easy to lose sight of the end goal.  Even without sight at times I pray we all have an "ear to hear" that small still voice to keep us on the right pathway.

Gary
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Marlene

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2009, 05:52:08 PM »

Sometimes we just have to get alone with God to hear his voice. Jacobs, glad to see how he is working in you and changed your thoughts.

I too know, I do not have the problems Jesus had.

When, we think about him or others and not ourself God will be with us through it all.

In His Love,
Marlene
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Tribulations, Patience, Experience & Hope
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 06:58:23 PM »


This "struggle" that you speak of, Joe, seems ever constant.  I suppose some frustrations can be so deeply rooted that overcoming is often times a distant journey, or seems distant, and the "fruits" often seem non-existent or not growing.     So, at least for me, I do so agree (now) that without being in constant touch with his spirit the fruits will not grow.   The last couple of days I've been thinking of the fruit that we are to have and show and I truly do believe, now, that any fruit simply can't be produced unless he plants the seed and waters it for growth.  Opposite that, all the worldly "you can help yourself" psycho babble is just that.  Babble.  Smoke and mirrors.  Feel good for a while, nothing permanent, nothing with foundation.  I don't see this "fruit" so much of the time and I pray even without that sight that it is growing.  I pray for a time, as Ray teaches, we will reach a time of looking back and then see from where we've come, even the fruit.   The beast lives proudly and for me, as you say, I too only must look in the mirror to see him.   There's no way to skip over the challenges and growth we must all journey through and sometimes it's so easy to lose sight of the end goal.  Even without sight at times I pray we all have an "ear to hear" that small still voice to keep us on the right pathway.

Gary


Hi Gary,

You know when we think (with human logic) about how our Father has set up His creation process it is totally counter intuitive, we need to repent not only of our deeds but of our thoughts and desires, but we can't even do that without Him leading us to that place where we can recognize that our (self centered) thoughts are our own worst enemy.

We are all familiar with the world's philosophy, in a nutshell it is "if it feels good, do it!"

We know many of the mainstream denominations have a "name it, claim it" doctrine that teaches we should pray for material worldly things in an attempt to create our own heaven on earth even with our Lord adamantly stating that His Kingdom is not of this world and if we are His the world will hate us.

When our eyes begin to open we see the futility of placing our hope and faith in material things or even other people, we slowly but steadily realize this is a One on one journey as God has us plow through rocky, weedy, vermin infested ground, turning over the dust of the earth (which we are) into a path toward Sonship.

Our Father in His infinite love gave us His Firstborn Son to share the yolk of this work and if we consistently depend on Christ to carry us forward, if we faithfully believe He will not tire or allow us to fail we really do become strong in weakness.         

Your statement about "smoke and mirrors" brought to mind 1st Corinthians 13:12, the King James has it translated like this;

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as so I am known.

Better translations of this verse read;

1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (NIV)

1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. (NASB)

The following translation I believe really nails our experience;

1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known. (ASV)

Imagine being in a dark room facing a mirror trying to coordinate and navigate around the room and we can only use the mirror as our point of reference;

Right is left, left is right, we have no depth perception and on top of it all the room has poor lighting! Of course we will stumble, make mistakes, fall, etc. If only we had a Voice who we could totally trust to lead us out of this distressing situation.....

Thank God we do.

Peace,

Joe

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