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Testimonies
Ninny:
Ryan,
Maybe you could look at it this way: If you wanted to deceive someone would you want them to learn to fear and hate God because he might burn them forever in hell thereby being able to control the greatest number of people with the least amount of effort OR Would you just let them believe that God loves them so much and He is such an awesome God that He would never torture His children for all eternity? There would be no way to control them if they knew that God is NOT a God of fire and vengeance!! Do you see this Ryan?
The ones who believe hell is real are the ones who are afraid that if they DON'T believe it they're doomed to it!! The ones who DON'T believe in a literal burn-forever hell are NOT afraid that they will end up there. SO for some reason people are SO deceived that even the scriptures can't convince them there is no hell, there are people on this forum who can tell you that!
So if you were the deceiver, which way would you use try to convince a lot of people that they'd better work hard and be good so God will love and accept them..hmm you'd try to scare them! God doesn't need to give anyone a vision of what hell ISN'T because He has given us pure insight in the scriptures that there IS NO hell. Someone else can explain it a lot better than I..We have proof that we serve an awesome Living God who, just as no human parent would continue to spank a child for days on end for disobeying would never punish His children for eternity...
I hope I haven't added to your confusion,
Kathy ;)
bluzman:
--- Quote from: TheRysta on June 26, 2009, 05:29:50 AM ---All I'm saying is, t'would be odd if we only had testimonies of hell but not testimonies of no hell.
--- End quote ---
Ryan, I don't understand your above statement. Now you've got me confused.
Is your statement a question? You have just used two negatives in the above sentence.
If you can't be convinced or convicted that the Hell doctrine is false, then I don't know what else to tell you.
Are you seriously studying any of Ray's writings? I don't want to be rude to you Ryan, but this is not a kindergarten class.
You have had more scriptural truths and understanding given to you here than most people will ever get in their lifetime, can't you see that? No you probably do not. I do know what a young man of 17 feels like, I was a young man of 18 many years ago. Please reread Ray's Lake of Fire series.
Take your time. When I go over any part of that series, which I have more than once, I can tell you that I always come away with more understanding than I had previously. I honestly hope that your eyes will be opened.
Sincerely,Bluzman
P.S. Is it hotter down south than it is in the summer?
Astrapho:
--- Quote ---All I'm saying is, t'would be odd if we only had testimonies of hell but not testimonies of no hell.
--- End quote ---
I toyed with that thought once. But, which would you believe? Scriptures, or dubious testimonies that may be completely fabricated/unscriptural? Sure, they are good sources of encouragement, but ultimately, only scripture matters. You don't need testimonies to learn the truth.
Linny:
--- Quote from: TheRysta on June 26, 2009, 05:29:50 AM ---All I'm saying is, t'would be odd if we only had testimonies of hell but not testimonies of no hell.
--- End quote ---
Okay, let's look at this logically. I see apples and oranges. Carnal man, men with $ signs in their eyes, writing books, evil men wishing to scare people into joining a church, etc. tell us they've seen an imaginary place. Why then must God give visions to dispell these lies?
Obviously the one is of man and the other would have to be sent by God, right?
I don't need a vision. He opened my eyes through the Holy Spirit and gave me an understanding of His Word.
Which version of the gospel do you believe? That Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that we will be saved from permanent death, the wages of our sin? (easy to find clear, outright scripture for)
Or that Jesus died for only those who believe in His name before death and if we die in our sins without believing, we will go straight to hell? Beliefs NOT backed up by a single scripture.
You don't have to be a Bible scholar to just go to the Word and do a study. See which gospel you can back up with scripture.
My husband asked my BIL directly to give him the Scripture that said we had to be saved BEFORE death to be saved. This man has his doctorate in theology and is a pastor. He said, "There isn't one." But he still chooses to believe it. Let the Word teach you through the Holy Spirit. You don't need the testimony of men.
aqrinc:
We can discuss this subject until the cows come home, but The Scriptures Say it this way very Explicitly.
1Timothy 4: 1-16 (EMTV)
1 Now the Spirit explicitly says, that in latter times some will fall away from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having been seared with a hot iron as to their own conscience,
3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who are believers and have come to know the truth.
4 Because every creature of God is good, and not one is to be rejected, being received with thanksgiving,
5 for it is sanctified through the word of God and prayer.
6 Instructing the brothers in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, being nourished by the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
7 But reject profane and old wives' tales, and exercise yourself unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise is profitable a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the present life and of the coming life.
9 Trustworthy is this word and worthy of all acceptance.
10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
11 These things command and teach.
12 Let no one despise your youth, but become a pattern for the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Until I come, give attention to (public) reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
15 Meditate on these things; be in these things, so that your progress may be evident to all.
16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
george. :)
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