posting in orthodox forums

[meefsgirl]

meefsgirl, I understand your concern, but we need to remember that few are chosen.
If many knew the truth, and were teaching it on many websites with many believers, then it would be many chosen and not a few.
I don't know of anyone alive other than Ray that is teaching this truth.

I know of at least one other on the internet who teaches the truth like Ray. I do believe Ray teaches very clearly and precisely and is easy to read and understand. And that is sooo good. And I do believe he is anointed to teach. Yes, I agree that few are chosen, but we don't know the numbers.

I have wondered about this many times. Who will be the next teacher when Ray is gone? Will that be the end of a human teacher?
Ray makes it clear that he doesn't know it all, and that he is human just like all of us, learning and growing in Spirit. He is just a man that has had his eyes opened more than ours, and has been chosen to teach.
I have great respect for Ray, but place him not on a pedestal. That isnt where he wants to be.
If all the preachers were teaching the truth, how could there be a few chosen?
If one leaves this truth behind then their eyes have not been opened.
I do believe that it is the Spirit that teaches us, and That should be our main source of understanding and learning, but God works through people and Ray and us are being worked and used by God. Of this I have no doubt.

I am quite sure that there are other teachers God is raising up. Ray is not alone. And as I said to another, I didn't say you 'do' put Ray on a pedestal... it just seems that way. You all need to see it from a newbie point of view.

You said above that if ones leaves this truth behind then their eyes have not been opened. Did you mean if one goes back?... or if one goes forward?... I believe there is more truth to learn and we should go forward. I also have a sense that much of these teachings are laying a foundation for greater truth to come. Ray may bring them, or maybe you might....

Blessings... meefsgirl

[Samson]

I have found that when talking to others about Universalism, even when they say they would like to know more about it, really they don't.  They have too many biasis and can't see what your talking about or rather don't want to see your point of view.  Just the other day I was talking to my dad because he expressed interest and wanted to know what I was studying.  We talked but eventually when we disagreed, and I tried to say it another way he eventually just said I needed to pray more and walked off.  I was kinda shocked because he asked me and then didn't actually want to hear what I said.  As for posting  on Orthodox Christian forums I havn't had any experience.  I was talking with my old pastor but like you said we hit a brick wall.  Mostly because of context and translation issues.  I changed my approach with my old pastor--now I just ask questions from the Orthodox Christian POV and see how they answer.  Then watch how they explain away so many scriptures or just say we can't know the answer we just need faith and believe that everything will be all right.  It only affirms the Ultimate Reconcilliation view in my mind, that and I am really curious about their answers since their are so many views on such topics as the age of accountability, trinity, tithing, etc, etc, etc.  And each church validates it in their mind with a scripture and all think they are correct.   Their really is no use arguing with them as you've found out and as Ray has attested to in his replies to countless e-mails.  As for the need to convince others that we are right I don't believe that is the goal of most who try to share.  I would have to say that we want to share not to boost our ego in being right but sincerely wanting to help the individual find the truth and experience the freedom it brings.  But like my dad still says "you can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped."
  lferretj

Hello Everyone,

                     I quoted the above, only because there are some points that I can identify with. Most of us know that
we should only share our faith and the hope that's in us in harmony with what's stated at 1Peter.3:15. Yet, even in
cases where someone asks us a question, they may not really like the answer we give them and start to turn this into
a debate, at this point, it's preferable to desist from continuing the discussion. As Ray has stated: " He who is convinced against their Will, is of the same opinion Still."

                    My Daughter used to ask questions to the affect, " Why do you believe such & such " and as soon as
I begin to provide the answer, she gets irritated and immediately atempts to contradict me, then proceeds to say something like: " You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe." I usually respond by saying: What's the sense of asking me a question, if you won't let me answer." So, my point is, even in cases where someone seems to
sincerely want an answer to a question, they sincerely don't want or care to hear your true answer.

                   A good example of the futility of debating an Orthodox Christian, especially one deeply rooted in it, is
the case involving Carrie Bradshaw, mainly because Jaccobsladder, Hell No and Babylon has Fallen(Daywalker) did an
excellent job explaining in full detail with Ray's material, the Scriptures and many examples to prove our stand on
different issues and She's still of the same opinion and in this case, this was a Universalist Type Hub, not an Orthodox
one.
                  I have a situation that involves me, where a workmate who already knows that I believe in the
Universal Reconcilition of All and claimed they even toyed with idea, they fully know my stand and had left it at
that, yet recently a relative of their's had died, in which this person attended their funeral and since this person was
an Atheist that died, the person I work with commented making reference to Hebrews. 10:31(Fearfull thing falling into
the hands of the living God), applying it to Non-Believers, Now keep in mind that he already knew my stance that
everyone eventually will be saved, although only a Chosen few in this Age. He waited for me to respond and I didn't,
I changed the subject and announced I was leaving to do something(work related), he had a smiley smirk on his
face and said, see you later. So, with the above in mind, What was his point in telling me something that he should
have already known what my answer would be. Was it to rile me up, debate or did he completely forget my stance
on these matters. Well, I didn't put myself in that position to find out and probably saved myself some unnecessary
grief.

                 So, with all of this in mind, whether debating with family members, Co-workers, At Orthodox Forums, Universalist You-Tube Video clips or even at our BT Forum, it's an exercise in futility because it doesn't do God
any good, the person you debate with any good and I know it doesn't do me any good. It took me many years
to finally practice this principle, to remain silent.

                                        Kind Regards, Samson.

[mharrell08]

Hmmm.. as a newbie here I'm starting to get a bit concerned with how much you all seem to put Ray on a pedestal. Do you all believe that Ray has ALL THE TRUTH? If so, then I think I'll bow out because I don't believe anyone has all the truth and I am way past looking to 'leaders' to do it all for me. That was left behind when I left the orthodox church.

You are not the first nor will you be the last to make this statement...I don't know why so many assume this and feel they need to announce to all that 'they will not follow any man'.

I have yet to see any who make these haughty statements provide one example of someone 'following one man'.

From 'Questions and Truth' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html):

One thing that I see posted allot is the statement that nobody knows all the truths of God.  With this I agree, but what about the truths they do know?  The truth is the truth and we can see by all the denominations and religions that the majority has not a clue what the truth actually is.  How much truth did Paul have?  John?, did some of the scripture they brought out have only some truth?

I am not comparing Ray to Paul or John, and Ray will tell you he doesn't know all there is about scripture, but the parts that he writes he believes to be truth, inspired by God as taught by men such as Paul and John etc.  Ray takes his search for the truth seriously and that is why he uses so much scripture and gives very little opinion.  If you study Ray's writing and think he is in error then by all means email him or ask the question here.  Unlike some would have you believe, questioning Ray's articles is allowed here.  It is just the debating of the topic that is not allowed.  And bringing your own teaching to a topic is not either, as we explain in the forum rules.  (The mods don't have the time or talent   to determine if your opinion is right or wrong)


The purpose of the forum is to fellowship in Christ using Ray's teachings as just that: a teaching tool. If some hold Ray in a higher regard than others, what is that to anyone? I thought this thread was about NOT debating about that which is carnal, whether on this forum or another.

Let us walk and be mindful of that which is of the spirit.


Thanks,

Marques

[meefsgirl]

Hmmm.. as a newbie here I'm starting to get a bit concerned with how much you all seem to put Ray on a pedestal. Do you all believe that Ray has ALL THE TRUTH? If so, then I think I'll bow out because I don't believe anyone has all the truth and I am way past looking to 'leaders' to do it all for me. That was left behind when I left the orthodox church.

You are not the first nor will you be the last to make this statement...I don't know why so many assume this and feel they need to announce to all that 'they will not follow any man'.

I have yet to see any who make these haughty statements provide one example of someone 'following one man'.

From 'Questions and Truth' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html):

One thing that I see posted allot is the statement that nobody knows all the truths of God.  With this I agree, but what about the truths they do know?  The truth is the truth and we can see by all the denominations and religions that the majority has not a clue what the truth actually is.  How much truth did Paul have?  John?, did some of the scripture they brought out have only some truth?

I am not comparing Ray to Paul or John, and Ray will tell you he doesn't know all there is about scripture, but the parts that he writes he believes to be truth, inspired by God as taught by men such as Paul and John etc.  Ray takes his search for the truth seriously and that is why he uses so much scripture and gives very little opinion.  If you study Ray's writing and think he is in error then by all means email him or ask the question here.  Unlike some would have you believe, questioning Ray's articles is allowed here.  It is just the debating of the topic that is not allowed.  And bringing your own teaching to a topic is not either, as we explain in the forum rules.  (The mods don't have the time or talent   to determine if your opinion is right or wrong)


The purpose of the forum is to fellowship in Christ using Ray's teachings as just that: a teaching tool. If some hold Ray in a higher regard than others, what is that to anyone? I thought this thread was about NOT debating about that which is carnal, whether on this forum or another.

Let us walk and be mindful of that which is of the spirit.


Thanks,

Marques

Yes, let us walk in the truth of God's Word and Spirit and not disagree anymore...

[rockrdude]

> Actually I made a point to say that it 'seems' that people here put Ray on a pedestal to avoid saying they do.

meefsgirl,

I have seen some evidence of this here on the forum, too. The end result is that there will always be those who find truth and then elevate the presenters of the truth and place them on a very high pedestal. That is the nature of fleshly man, and only Jesus has so far been able to completely conquer the flesh.

The truth is still truth, and there is much of it here, but some will follow the man and others will follow the truth that is presented.

I was actually discussing this with someone off-site recently, and my concern was that at times I have read the words "all you need is your Bible and Ray's papers." on the forum. I understand where the people who write stuff like this are coming from, but the Bible does say that we have no need that any man teach us for the Holy Spirit will be our teacher.

Obviously the Spirit of God can and often does use Ray, and his papers, but Ray is not to be followed. With all teachers, Ray included, the Bible commands us to 'see if these things be so'.

When I frequent other sites, I often find some wonderful truths! I also find many teachings that simply do not agree with the Word of God, often still full of the spirit of the Babylonian institutional church system. God does command His children to "Come out of her, My people", so I do keep my distance from the teachings of the world. Since light and darkness / truth and deception do not mix, I do not remain on such sites.

There are other EXCELLENT sites that present many of the same things Ray teaches. Some present them better than others, and Ray is not the exclusive presenter of most of these things. All that said, in my journey, this is still the best place I have found to study God's Word and interact with other like-minded believers. You will, of course, find many here who have a deep love for the things Ray teaches. I believe it is why this forum was created to being with.

For me, I just love Ray's style and method of presenting these truths. Many of the same things had been taught to me by the Spirit when I had no fellowship at all, and I felt like I was a big giant kook for believing such things. When I stumbled into Ray's teachings, it was a breath of fresh air for me. I realized I was not alone and that I really was hearing and learning from God. It was this that God used to bring me here, and since then the Spirit of God has taught me many things from other people here. He still uses some from other sites to teach me things as well.

No matter what is presented, always check to 'see if these things be so'.

I hope you'll stick around. This is a good bunch of people. Yes.. some have Ray on a pedestal. Most do not.. thankfully. 

[Marlene]

Well, I just wanted to let you all know, that for me and others I am sure did not agree with all things taught while in Babylon. I never voiced what I believed or I would have been devoured by the Lions.

I did not believe in tithe and I did not believe in the Trinity. Why, would God need to use a third person holy ghost, when the Bible tells us God is Spirit.
Well, this was the Holy Spirit working in me while I was in Babylon.

Now, I know that others believe as I do that this was all the Holy Sprit dragging me in here.

I believe God brought me into this website when he decided it was time for me to learn that there is no Hell.
But, I had read other scriptures and did not pick up on the fact that God had a plan for all mankind. The Hell doctrine I had began to hate becauseI knew I was not right with God. Secondly, from reading about the different believe systems I became totally confused. I wondered how anyone could avoid Hell.
Well, God showed me Hell was just a mistake in translation and many other things. Now, God lifted the veil from my eyes and I was able to believe his word more clearly. I believe that God caused Ray to search and then led him on what to write on.

Ray shares more scriptures and with God leading him many are coming to see God's truths. But, let me tell you the night I saw there was no hell. It was not
Ray I worshiped but our Loving God. Ray is merely how God choose to present truths to us.

Also, since I tested things before I came in here, God has led me to test Ray's teachings along with others who believe in Universal Reconcillation. Now
I have read some articles on other website and they have given me some food for thought. But, I also, have found many of them believe in Trinity.
Many believe they existed before they were born. I know , some believe in other things too.

For me God has given Ray many truths and his plan for humanity.  I actually, believe I know enough now on what is needed to help me understand.
I believe I have the basics of Gods plan. Now, I know that only with the Holy Sprit working in me will I ever be able to overcome the world. Its the Love of Christ that helps me. Hey, a God of Love you want to give your heart too. You want to obey. His love will win us over. I still break down and cry when I think of the night God led me in here. Each day I feel more and more of his Love. Each day I want my Beast to be killed. I am so sick of it. I know, that this is all from God. Before, I never looked at myself like that. I thought I was a fairly nice person at times. What, a joke that was.

I love Ray as a Brother in Christ. God has used him in a mighty way. But, I also love all of you as Brothers and Sisters in Christ. We are family. If, one of you were ill or hurting. I would pray for you. I often think of those who were in here and left. But, God is working this all out for his good purpose.
Of course, we Love Ray, but all my worship and praise goes to God because this is the only reason I came in her. God led me here.

So, like Rockerdude I too have not found one any better. God used Ray. We all have been blessed by God that he made Ray want to share  God's truths with us. I thank God for this forum. Without, this it would be so lonely. There are so few of us who belive like this. But, I know only God can help me and he provided all of us for each other.  If, for some reason we would have to leave. I know, God has a plan, but mainly he is able to see me through the rest of the way.
In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Hi meefsgirl,

Your perception may be colored by this particular forum rule being adhered to by members most of the time. The idea is to discuss what we learn here on the forum, and our further personal growth from these teachings.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.

Rayism or any ism other than Baptism In Spirit Of Jesus Christ is most assuredly not accepted practice here. With careful reading of any discussion on this forum, you will see that Rays material is referenced quite often, but in most if not all instances, the corresponding Scripture and Spiritual Witness is also quoted.

We come here for fellowship with like-minded people, learning from Scripture and reading or listening to Rays teaching, which we have stated prior to joining, we agree with.

To bring a bit of clarity, let us all be reminded:

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its own explanation." (Where is your witness)

Witness
Dan 5:17 Then answering is Daniel and saying before the king, "Your gifts be to yourself, and your rewards grant to another! But the writing will I read to the king, and its interpretation will I make known to him."

1Co 14:22 So that languages are for a sign, not to the believers, but to the unbelievers. Yet prophecy is not for the unbelievers, but for believers."

Witness
Rev 19:10 And I fall in front of his feet to worship him. And he is saying to me, "See! No! A fellow slave of yours am I, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

george.

[G. Driggs]

I must admit, I have at one time or another put Brother Ray on a pedestal. Not only that, Ive even envied and coveted what God gave him, even the Brothers and Sisters here, to the point I began to hate Ray and all of you, because of jealousy. This in part is what I meant when I said I was like a beast to you all. Forgive me. Its not so bad now, but I still have to pray when the beast in me rises like that from time to time. What can I say? I was made like that. I'm a sinner as long as I'm in this flesh, hopefully it will become less and less as I grow and fellowship with you all.

As for all other websites that teach, I dont need em. You are my real family, my mother, brother and sister. I dont know anyone else in the world like you all, and I thank God, and give Him all the glory for bringing me here.

Peace, Love and Understanding to you all

G.Driggs

[Dave in Tenn]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  I take the scriptural admonition to 'let there not be too many teachers' to heart.  I don't have, nor do I want, 'too many teachers'.  I wasn't looking for the one I have.  I don't even care if there are others 'teaching' the same things as Ray.  I don't have time or inclination to scour the internet for 'other' anything, including fellowship, inspiration and certainly not 'teaching'.  God be with everybody, but I'm here and nowhere else.  

In a year, I still haven't read or heard everything on B-T!  And it hasn't been for lack of trying.    I don't feel the least little bit hungry, thirsty, curious, or needy to go anywhere else.  The Father prepared Ray Smith for me and the likes of me in ways I cannot begin to explain.  Ray is the best teacher of anything I've encountered since High School, and since what Ray teaches me is 'meaning of life' stuff, I hold him in very high regard.  There's just no eerie synth music playing when I claim Ray as 'my teacher'.

That's not really directed 'at' anyone...just flet led to say it.    That's just me, though.    

[G. Driggs]

In a year, I still haven't read or heard everything on B-T!  And it hasn't been for lack of trying.    I don't feel the least little bit hungry, thirsty, curious, or needy to go anywhere else.  The Father prepared Ray Smith for me and the likes of me in ways I cannot begin to explain.  Ray is the best teacher of anything I've encountered since High School, and since what Ray teaches me is 'meaning of life' stuff, I hold him in very high regard.  There's just no eerie synth music playing when I claim Ray as 'my teacher'.

   

Well said Dave, nothing wrong with esteeming someone better than ones self is there? Especially if they work hard for it and God gives them more.

You inspired me Dave, to remember what is written.

1Th 5:11  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
1Th 5:12  And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
1Th 5:13  And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Php 2:3  Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Nothing wrong with that is there? I dont feel so bad now for the way I feel about Ray, he has earned it.

Peace, G.Driggs

[Roy Martin]

meefsgirl, no offense was taken here. All was said in love. 

Peace
Roy

[indianabob]

G. Driggs,

I appreciate all that you wrote and everybody's contribution to this thread and specially the quote below.

Indiana Bob



websites that teach, I dont need em. You are my real family, my mother, brother and sister. I dont know anyone else in the world like you all, and I thank God, and give Him all the glory for bringing me here.

Peace, Love and Understanding to you all

G.Driggs
[/quote]

[cjwood]

i agree completely with you indianabob. i remember reading those words by g. driggs and how sweet they sounded to my heart and soul. thank you for reminding me of them.

claudia