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Submitting to authority
CrossoverManiac:
According to the Scripture, we should admit to authority. Does that mean the American Revolution was wrong? Or that the people of Germany should not rebel against Hitler during WWII?
Dave in Tenn:
What scripture are you basing the assumption "we should submit to authority" on?
Roy Martin:
(Romans 13)
( 1 Peter 2; 13)
I have wanted to talk about this topic. I'm glad it was brought up.
Roy
arion:
FWIW does anyone who says they are an authority over you indeed an authority you must submit to? I.E. with the American Revolution the colonists left England because they felt they could no longer submit to the King and they came to America. The King of England presumed to have authority over here as well yet He was the King of England.
With government in the U.S. were supposed to have a limited government with limited powers. Our leaders receive their authority upon taking an oath to uphold the constitution. Whey they go beyond the constitution and take upon themselves authority they don't lawfully have then are they truly an authority over you telling you what to do when they have violated the document that gave them the authority in the first place? If our form of government was a theocracy then we would have to do what the King of the U.S. said but that's not the case. That is why America truly was a jewel in the world because our form of government was limited and we were a self governing people.
I suppose we can take this to church leadership as well. Look how many of the babalonian church leaders take upon themselves authority that God has never given them.....especially if one was in the more regimented church such as Catholicism. Much to think about with these issues.
--- Quote ---Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
--- End quote ---
IN our case here that would be Ray. I would have no problem at all with following what he teaches because I know he is teaching the truth and I discern his heart through the teachings.
Then we have....
--- Quote ---1Pe 2:13-14 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
--- End quote ---
But again here in the U.S. as I mentioned earlier our form of government provides for very limited powers to our leaders and when they go way beyond the laws that give them the power then do we still have to submit to it?
And then to consider.....
--- Quote ---Mar 10:42-43 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister
--- End quote ---
This would be a great area for a teaching. Perhaps Ray has taught on some of these things before that I'm not aware of.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on July 06, 2009, 05:41:45 AM ---(Romans 13)
( 1 Peter 2; 13)
I have wanted to talk about this topic. I'm glad it was brought up.
Roy
--- End quote ---
2 quick points on these two scriptures:
1. Look up in a concordance the Greek word translated to 'ordinance' in 1 Pet 2:13.
2. In Romans 13, Paul refers to this same 'higher power' as a 'minister of God' in verse 4, twice.
But really, it takes a mature spiritual mind, to discern when it is proper to obey the laws & customs of the land but also when to be upheld to our higher, spiritual law in Christ. Living for Christ should be first in our lives and as long as the laws in our country do not directly oppose them, there should be no problem. If an issue arises, look to Christ and His apostles as an example of living a Godly life in a perverse society.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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