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HellHammers
TheRysta:
I've decided to come up with a list of things which are the nails in the coffin of the doctrine of everlasting torment. Not each little one, but the most powerful ones. We could easily do this with scripture, but I would rather they be for references rather than the actual statements. I have three real hammers so far, at least the ones which tingle my tastebuds the most. I just reckoned I'd like to stick them all in one place and list:
1) God will be all in all
This is core to my beliefs as I am a pantheist, so it's pretty damn powerful to me. I don't know the biblical references so if someone could provide them that would be helpful. Quantum physics shows us that we are all interconnected by the divine will of cause - effect. The universe is one organism conforming to the will of God. Therefore, it is senseless to say that a disembodied ego will be backstage burning in hell forever and ever.
2) Free will, the absence of
I don't believe that our supposed 'free will' is trancendent of God's will, once again tieing in with God's soverignity I mentioned above. If our will is not free, then that means that God knows that we are going to hell from the day we are born. In fact, not only that, but he CHOSE us to. Now, I know that emotional responses don't count as logical arguments, but I think you know my attitude to this view of Christendom... WHAT????????????????????????
And this one's my favorite...
3) If hell is real, then Jesus' sacrifice was evil.
This might seem like a powerful statement, but do you get it? The Jews did not believe in any kind of 'afterlife', just Sheol. We all know John 3:16 right? God so loved the world... SO THAT the believers would have eternal life! Jesus made the ressurection of man possible, the resurrection of the believers and the wicked. Jesus KNEW that the way was narrow and few would enter, so if eternal punishment is real, then allowing for us to be ressurected would have resulted in more suffering than salvation. He would have performed an EVIL act!
Do we have any more? I need a whole list of hellbusters ;D
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: TheRysta on July 08, 2009, 03:25:22 PM ---
This is core to my beliefs as I am a pantheist,
--- End quote ---
Hi Rysta,
Which type of "pantheist" would you count yourself as being or believing?
Definitions of pantheism;
1. Oxford English Dictionary
Pantheism.
1. The religious belief or philosophical theory that God and the Universe are identical (implying a denial of the personality and transcendence of God); the doctrine that God is everything and everything is God.
[First use 1730, modelled on the word pantheist, first used by John Toland in 1705]
2. The heathen worship of all the gods.
[First use 1837 by Sir F. Palgrave, describing the Tartar tribes who respected all creeds but were attached to none]
2. Merriam-Webster Collegiate in Encyclopaedia Britannica
Pantheism
1: a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
2: the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples
indifferently; also: toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain
periods of the Roman empire).
3. Encyclopaedia Britannica
Pantheism
[Only one def given]
The doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and,
conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and
laws that are manifested in the existing universe. . .
The adjective pantheist was coined by the rationalist freethinker John
Toland in his book Socinianism Truly Stated (1705). The noun pantheism was
first used a few years later by one of Toland's opponents.
4. Grolier's Encyclopaedia
Pantheism
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism is the belief that everything is divine, that God is not separate
from but totally identified with the world, and that God does not possess
personality or transcendence.
5. WorldBook Encyclopaedia
Pantheism
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism is the belief that everything is divine, that God is not separate
from but totally identified with the world, and that God does not possess
personality or transcendence.
6. Encarta Encyclopaedia
Pantheism
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism, doctrine that identifies the universe (Greek pan, "all") with
God (Greek theos).
7. Longman Dictionary
Pantheism
1. A doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of nature.
2. The worship of all gods of different religions, cults or peoples
indifferently, also tolerance of such worship (eg at certain periods of the
Roman Empire).
8. Hutchinson New Century Encyclopaedia
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
Doctrine that regards all of reality as divine, and God as present in all
of nature and the universe.
9. Larousse Desk Reference Encyclopaedia
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
Belief that God and universe are one and the same.
10. Cambridge Encyclopaedia
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
The belief that God and the Universe are ultimately identical.
11. Penguin Dictionary of Philosophy
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
The doctrine that the world as a whole, nature in the widest sense, is
identical with God.
12. Oxford Companion to Philosophy
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
First used by John Toland on 1705, the term "pantheist" denotes one who
holds both that everything there is constitutes a unity, and that this
unity is divine.
13. Penguin Dictionary of Religions
[Only one definition given]
Pantheism
Belief that the whole of reality is divine.
The one thing I noticed missing in all of these definitions is;
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Peace,
Joe
kenny:
--- Quote from: TheRysta on July 08, 2009, 03:25:22 PM ---I've decided to come up with a list of things which are the nails in the coffin of the doctrine of everlasting torment. Not each little one, but the most powerful ones. We could easily do this with scripture, but I would rather they be for references rather than the actual statements. I have three real hammers so far, at least the ones which tingle my tastebuds the most. I just reckoned I'd like to stick them all in one place and list:
1) God will be all in all
This is core to my beliefs as I am a pantheist, so it's pretty damn powerful to me. I don't know the biblical references so if someone could provide them that would be helpful. Quantum physics shows us that we are all interconnected by the divine will of cause - effect. The universe is one organism conforming to the will of God. Therefore, it is senseless to say that a disembodied ego will be backstage burning in hell forever and ever.
2) Free will, the absence of
I don't believe that our supposed 'free will' is trancendent of God's will, once again tieing in with God's soverignity I mentioned above. If our will is not free, then that means that God knows that we are going to hell from the day we are born. In fact, not only that, but he CHOSE us to. Now, I know that emotional responses don't count as logical arguments, but I think you know my attitude to this view of Christendom... WHAT????????????????????????
And this one's my favorite...
3) If hell is real, then Jesus' sacrifice was evil.
This might seem like a powerful statement, but do you get it? The Jews did not believe in any kind of 'afterlife', just Sheol. We all know John 3:16 right? God so loved the world... SO THAT the believers would have eternal life! Jesus made the ressurection of man possible, the resurrection of the believers and the wicked. Jesus KNEW that the way was narrow and few would enter, so if eternal punishment is real, then allowing for us to be ressurected would have resulted in more suffering than salvation. He would have performed an EVIL act!
Do we have any more? I need a whole list of hellbusters ;D
--- End quote ---
It will defiantly pan out in the end that is for sure.
kenny
TheRysta:
...............
Do I heck no which definition I am. But I can tell you what I believe.
I do not believe in God as a personality (although he can be represented as such... that's fine and obviously Jesus did it), I believe that God is the manifestation of purpose in the universe. A collective consciousness, a senient creator, preserver, and destroyer. God is the meaning of systems.
I do believe that God is love, because love is perhaps the greatest divine purpose in the universe. Making it quite definitively... God.
I used to call myself a deist, but the deist ideology of God makes it out almost as if everything is an accident.
People like to say that Pantheism is 'sexed up' athesim
I believe that atheism is under-sexed pantheism.
;D
- Ryan
daywalker:
--- Quote from: TheRysta on July 09, 2009, 02:52:45 PM ---...............
Do I heck no which definition I am. But I can tell you what I believe.
I do not believe in God as a personality (although he can be represented as such... that's fine and obviously Jesus did it), I believe that God is the manifestation of purpose in the universe. A collective consciousness, a senient creator, preserver, and destroyer. God is the meaning of systems.
I do believe that God is love, because love is perhaps the greatest divine purpose in the universe. Making it quite definitively... God.
I used to call myself a deist, but the deist ideology of God makes it out almost as if everything is an accident.
People like to say that Pantheism is 'sexed up' athesim
I believe that atheism is under-sexed pantheism.
;D
- Ryan
--- End quote ---
Ryan,
If this is what you believe, than you don't believe the Scriptures. Please don't take this as a personal insult, it's just a reality. Pantheism is another result of carnal man using his carnal mind to explain who and what God is.
"I believe that God is the manifestation of purpose in the universe"
I assume that you already know that the Universe hasn't always existed... So, where was God then? What was God before the Universe? Or did He 'come into existence after the Universe'? No, this universe as all things came "out of God". [1 Cor 8:6]
This universe is physical.
God is not physical.
He is Spiritual.
This universe will one day come to an end.
God will never come to an end.
We are physical.
After death, resurrection and judgment, We shall be Spiritual.
Thus we shall be like God--Spiritual--no longer physical.
Everything that He has, and everything He is--SO WE SHALL BE! [I John 3:2]
As long as you continue to use your own carnal, physical mind to try and find God; you won't.
Daywalker. 8)
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