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My first discussion...

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bambam:
I brought all of what I have been learning to the table today with two of my closest friends.  We had a bible study-it was really neat, but very daunting.  I may have made them think, but they were totally trying to prove me wrong as I was them.  I am not into argueing about this stuff.  Well we were not arguing, but we were debating.  I get loud but not angry.  Anyways, my stomache is in knots, but I just felt I needed to tell them.  I wanted to tell somebody.   

I was shaken because there is so much that I do not have answers for.  Like the fact that there is no hell, and the judgement is not forever.  I have been studying the issues concerning all being saved.  That's were my basic focus has been for almost two years.  That's how long it has taken for me to be totally convinced of the truth!

But I realized today that I am not ready to give an answer to anyone because I cannot yet explain, using the scriptures, why there is no hell and that judgement is not forever.  The hardest thing to conquer for me today, was when the story of Lazarus and the rich man came up.  I simply said that I have not yet studied that.  I felt like a fool. 

It's hard because I don't want to tell people about Ray's site because I think most people would read the first few sentences and say he is off of his rocker.  In fact my friend did that very thing today when she went to the lazarus paper.  I told her there was no way we could discuss that in such a short time etc. 

I cannot read Ray's paper's.  I have read much of his stuff, but I really desire to learn these things from God.  I have been listening to Ray's audio's, because I do not have to have paper's lying around to do that.   

I am not sure why I am sharing this except that I just have this sick feeling in the pit of my stomache.  I really do not want to be led astray!!   I have only been praying and asking God for the truth-for the past two years I have asked for this. 

God brought me here-I am sure of it!!  But why the doubt. 

I am just not strong.  I thought today, that maybe God was showing me that I am just not ready to talk to people about this yet.  Because I have been so anxious about doing just that-especially with my husband. 

Has it been this hard for all of you?  I am sure it has.  Sometimes I feel so alone.   I have had more peace about the things Ray teaches than I do about anything I have learned all of my life!!  But talking to my two friends for a few hours has shaken me.  What does this mean??

I am thankful for you all.  To me it seems so much more awesome and wonderful to know that hell-as man has percieved it does not exist!  It would be a wonderful thing to learn that everyone is going to eventually be saved.  My friend said to me-if there is no hell, then why don't I just go and do whatever I want-why try to live this Christian life that is so hard to live.   

I struggled with that one.  I understand in my head, but putting my thoughts into words is extremely hard when it comes to this. 

I wish I could do what Jesus did when he opened up people's understanding.  But I cannot.  This is hard.  And these were two of my closest friends.  I can honestly say that My Bible makes SO much more sense now than it did before.  I cannot go back to the old ways of thinking.  But I can say that I was shaken today-I didn't like the feeling-at all.  But God did it for a reason-I know. 

Thanks for listening.:-)

peace,
Beth ;D

 

Roy Coates:
Beth,
You are so not alone. I like what Ray said once: " hell hath no fury like a christian just been shown the truth" Give them time. For me it was hard to accept the fact that all I had been taught about the Father and the Son had been lies. It hurt deep inside me. Many will not see what you do and a few will. I do get inspired to share with people and I do just like you" I haven't studied that yet" Better to remain quite and seem as a fool then to open my mouth and remove all doubt. You see you were wise in not discussing what you were not sure of, well done. If you are led to share Ray's work then do it. Do your best not to worry about the effect Ray's site or his papers will have on someone, leave that to the Holy Spirit. I only share bits and pieces with close friends and family. I hope and pray they ask for more and I give what I have. It is a lot to digest. If we try to eat a whole years food in one day we would die. Same goes for Spiritual food. Praying for you, Roy

Marlene:
Beth, I know, that Ray has talked about people saying why should they obey God. Why, not live a life of si?. I at first thought the same stupid thing. One, I do not want to do that because I love God and he died for me and the whole world. Two, I love people and do not want to live such a stupid life of hurting others.  Unless God gives them eyes to see and ears to hear they will not see.

I came into here after God's deliverance of me from a trerrible sin. I could not forgive some one and I ended up in worse shape then they were.
One, that taught me to not judge anymore two I forgave this person. But, I did not feel God could forgive me. I asked God for truth that night I was at my end. I felt I was going to this fabled place. But, that night saved my life. God showed me I did not know him. I just thought so. I served him out of fear of
Hell not out of Love. But, how could I do any differently. I believeed that night. It was his plan.

I was just as dumb to make that statement as they were. We have lots of need to obey. We should obey because of the Love for others. Love for God. Fear is not love.  I am sure someone on here can locate and post where these are. I lack computer skills. I wish I didn't but I do. But, you could put in a search and that could bring up what you need.

I have not been too quick to start to show anyone anything.

But, I see no way that Love equals torture. Nor, do they have the same meaning.
It was all so simple, but we were blind.  Now, we are not.

I just spend most of my time learning. Cause, I am well aware I am not equiped yet.

I know, one thing good to ask a person. I would ask them where the scripture is that says you have to believe in this life time. Also, one that  got my Mother-In- Law was if your son or daughter died and you had it within your power to save them would you. She said, Of Course. I said, so do you think you are more loving then your Creator.

Ray gave this verse in one of his papers. It has never left my mind.
Job Chapter 4 verse 17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

I used that  on my Mother In Law and she said, " I don't get it." She really did not get it. She thought she was more capable of forgiving then God.
She is blind she really did not see it.

I could have spent all night on that one verse. God opens there eyes and we are to study and understand before we can help anyone.
At, one time I read that verse and I gave it no thought about what that verse is really saying. If, I love someone and would not want them in Hell , but I think God is not able to Love them more. It was not me who is pure and who died on the cross.

Well, sorry to hear about how hard your time went with them. I gave up the trying to convince anyone. God is able to lead anyone he wants to his truths in any way he want. God just choose to lead us in here. I am so blessed he did.

You are just so excited for everyone to believe. But, yet God has showed us all through the Bible about the many and the few.

In His Love,
Marlene

Kat:

Hi Beth,

Well it is such a hard thing to share these things with those that are blind, it just makes no sense to them.  I did the same thing as you, after I had been studying for a while (about a year) and I talked to my best friend.  I didn't have to answer a lot of questions, because she didn't ask any.  I believe it was just too much of a foreign thing to her and she has not come to me with any questions since then.

For quite a long time after coming to the truth I did not possess real confidence to explain what I believed.  But after coming to this truth (3 1/2 years ago), I am starting to come to a point where I feel it is not just knowing all the right Scriptures, but having an understanding of this truth.  It's gaining the basic knowledge and then the pieces just come together and you can apply this to so much.  Take the Lazarus and the rich man parable, first of all it is a parable not a story of real people.  This parable can not be talking about being in hell fire, because these people were dead and Scripture do not contradict.

Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they will die;
       But the dead know nothing,
       And they have no more reward,
       For the memory of them is forgotten.

You see knowing the dead are dead and there is no way to reason around that, and they is no argument to it.  Well what is it talking about?  Judgment and that's another thing people don't get.  Just because there is no hell to torture people for eternity, there is judgment.  At the resurrection of the dead everyone will have to give account.

Rom 14:12  So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

But you will build more confidence in time.  So don't let this first discussion get you down, you are learning and it is a process.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

mharrell08:
Hello Beth,

Don't be too hard on yourself...if the Lord has not given them an understanding of the Truth, they will never understand. You could be the most eloquent, dynamic speaker in the world with infinite spiritual knowledge...but if the Lord has not given them understanding, opened their spiritual eyes to see spiritual truths - it won't make a difference.

We read of passages that speak of being spiritually blind as well as passages that speak of being given spiritual sight...but we don't fully comprehend until these truths manifest in our lives. These real life experiences should be the witness & testimony to reassure you that what you believe is true. Look at the passage below and think of the conversation you had with your friends...the Word of God is REAL in your LIFE.

2 Cor 4:1-5   

1  Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2  But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4  In whom the god of this world [Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5  For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.


Hope this helps,

Marques

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