My first discussion...

[daywalker]

I am learning and do know that God is in control of everything.  It amazes me the peace that comes when you finally rest in that.  But I have so much more learning to do, that I know as well!!  I don't know what to say, except you all have confirmed within me, that I have the truth and the truth truly DOES set you free.  Have any of you struggled with believing the truth right away when you found it? 

Thank you all,
Beth

Oh yea, I did. When you are taught and believe in something your whole life [for me 24 yrs, for some here much longer...], and you come to realize that it may not all be true, this isn't easy to accept, understand and overcome... especially at first. I barely found this website 1.5 years ago [Feb 08] and already I can see the change in me, my beliefs, my understanding, my feelings and opinions, the way I think.. etc, etc,... but this has had a huge impact on me, and has been a struggle also. The more some things start to make sense, other things start to make less sense.

As all of us are finding out more and more, being spiritually converted and regenerated is truly an extremely rigorous event. I am quickly learning that Ray wasn't kidding at all when he taught that "being saved would be the hardest thing any person would ever do..."

But we also know that God is with us always, and we have this forum of likeminded believers to come to as well...


- Christopher 

[rbn]

Beth wrote: Has it been this hard for all of you?  I am sure it has.  Sometimes I feel so alone.   I have had more peace about the things Ray teaches than I do about anything I have learned all of my life!!  But talking to my two friends for a few hours has shaken me.  What does this mean??
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I recall reading one of Ray's page that we will fall flat on our faces when we try to teach and share these bible-truths to others. He did not say it will always happen but in almost all cases it will happen. I now believe Ray more than I used to on this matter.

I was eager to share this wonderful, inspiring and free setting bible-truths I was sure they would believe now! Boy, was I wrong. It caused me to wonder what is this truth I have? What should I do with it? I once asked God; "What good is truth if you cannot share it with anyone?" I got answer through more of Ray's bible studies and teachings. I realized that I personally have been taught that I as Christian should to go out, save everybody, the whole world. You know the teachings? They preach; "Go out and tell them they must accept that Jesus is Lord...our savor...to confess their sins...they will be saved...not go to hell."

I also learned from Ray's teachings that Jesus faced much discomfort at all the synagogues. Jesus taught the truth. Did it set them free? It was like Jesus rockin' their boat (carnal mind) for Worship in Spirit and in Truth and they could not stand for that. They were set in their ways of customs and traditions. Jesus was odd to them.

Is not that what we see in all these church's today? Most of us had the suspicion or questions about many bible topics but were guided to a dead-end-street for truth. I can tell you this fact that I did not learn much truth in any churches I attended.

This actually happen to me. I attended a church invitation on the subject, "Finding your Soul Mate." There was an invited speaker who spoke for about a hour on the subject. He goes on to inform "the invited" how he met his wife and he had the answer for your search in finding that special soul mate. He never discussed a scriptural answer. After he finished speaking he promoted his book on the subject. I bought a copy of the book. I read it at home. Could you believe in the last chapter he tells his readers you will know you have the right soul mate by calling the one of interest, speak to them in tongues and if they do not hang up, that is your soul mate? I had two choices to believe this garbage or not to believe? I threw his book in the trash.

Could you believe the peddling of the God's Word for personal gain? This stuff goes on today and I am sure there is much worse!

Beth, the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. You made an attempt to share the Good News! Endorse yourself for the effort not the result. You are not alone. I have not met anyone in person who shares the bible-truth from Ray's teachings. It has been three long years. I believe. I am set free. It's plain and simple. I do not have to know everything. The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us to ALL TRUTH. Also, God uses servants like Ray to help us learn it. Amen!

rbn

[bambam]

To all,
   You know, one thing that is so hard for me is that the church I go to is not way out in left field as far as trying to get everyone's money, or speaking in tongues etc.  There is no blatant obvious stupidity to point to-just people seemingly genuinely trying to be there for each other and coming together to "worship" .  It's hard to refute that when it doesn't obviously look silly or useless. Did not God refuse things in the scriptures that were not bad like Cains offering-they just were not what God was asking for.  Of course, only two people know so far what I have learned and they are both worried about my soul.

  Anyways, I hear Ray talk about the church that he came out of and all of the horrible things he learned about the leaders and the complete misuse of money for personal gain.  It's not like that in my church. The pastor does not make millions.  His wife works full time so they can have insurance, and extra money.  He doesn't make a whole lot at our church.  Neither does my husband.  Money is hardly ever mentioned, but it is mentioned at times, but mildly.  There is no healing or tongues or rolling in the aisles like crazy people.  The hardest thing is to say to these people-this is not what God is all about.  I can imagine the blank looks I would get, or the utter disgust that people would show towards my ideas-or pity for my soul being led astray.

  I don't know.  I have still to tell my husband.  But like I said before-the truth is always on my mind and in my heart.  Every day.  I love the truth.  I so wish I could share it and see lightbulbs go on over peoples heads!!  How amazing would that be.  But I guess that is not what God wants at this time.  Thankfully, one day, EVERY one will learn righteousness and fear God.  One day!     

[aqrinc]

To all,
   You know, one thing that is so hard for me is that the church I go to is not way out in left field as far as trying to get everyone's money, or speaking in tongues etc.  There is no blatant obvious stupidity to point to-just people seemingly genuinely trying to be there for each other and coming together to "worship" .  It's hard to refute that when it doesn't obviously look silly or useless. Did not God refuse things in the scriptures that were not bad like Cains offering-they just were not what God was asking for.  Of course, only two people know so far what I have learned and they are both worried about my soul.

  Anyways, I hear Ray talk about the church that he came out of and all of the horrible things he learned about the leaders and the complete misuse of money for personal gain.  It's not like that in my church. The pastor does not make millions.  His wife works full time so they can have insurance, and extra money.  He doesn't make a whole lot at our church.  Neither does my husband.  Money is hardly ever mentioned, but it is mentioned at times, but mildly.  There is no healing or tongues or rolling in the aisles like crazy people.  The hardest thing is to say to these people-this is not what God is all about.  I can imagine the blank looks I would get, or the utter disgust that people would show towards my ideas-or pity for my soul being led astray.

  I don't know.  I have still to tell my husband.  But like I said before-the truth is always on my mind and in my heart.  Every day.  I love the truth.  I so wish I could share it and see lightbulbs go on over peoples heads!!  How amazing would that be.  But I guess that is not what God wants at this time.  Thankfully, one day, EVERY one will learn righteousness and fear God.  One day!     

You know, one thing that is so hard for me is that the church I go to is not way out in left field as far as trying to get everyone's money, or speaking in tongues etc.  There is no blatant obvious stupidity to point to-just people seemingly genuinely trying to be there for each other and coming together to "worship" .

Hi Beth,

If lightbulbs start coming on over their heads, call an electrician   . I could think of some things that you would be able to focus on and recognize when you see or hear them.

1. Is Hell and eternal damnation or destruction preached? if no what is taught?.

2. Is tithing taught as being necessary for members to do? what doctrine or practice is preached on this subject?.

3. How is the Sabbath Rest observed and preached, or is it?. All day every day is Correct.

4. What is taught about what happens when a Church member dies, are they dead or in Heaven?. Scripture says, the dead know not anything.

5. Do they teach a Resurrection of the dead or of the body?. Scripture says Resurrection of the dead.

Just five things that are important to anyone who would walk in the Steps, Of Jesus Christ. There are many others that are equally as important, but these are more easily observable.

george.

[Kat]

Hi Beth,

It's interesting, your church sounds a lot like the Baptist church I was in for ten years before finding Ray's site.  I know what you means, the people there were down to earth no nonsense type Christians.  I liken that church to a Christian type 'Country Club,' as they all come together and socialize and share their brand of religion.  Of course they believed that most would burn in hell for eternity (which was mentioned at the end of every service before the alter call), apart from that they were trying to promote the way to live a righteous life.  But it was all about the physical, everything evolved around physical things that they thought was spiritual.  Now I can see why it's that way, because the church is totally blind to spiritual understanding.

1Peter 2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

The thing is when God is ready to drag someone to Him and give them spiritual knowledge the church becomes a hindrance.  If we are to move "out of darkness and into His marvelous light," we must separate ourselves from obvious darkness.  We don't have to leave an unbelieving mate (1Cor. 7:13), but the church is different.  The church is not just a social place, it is there to indoctrinate anyone who attends into what they believe.  As you know the Truth is unequivocally opposite from what the church teaches.

Amo 3:3  Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

James 4:4  Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

The way that the Lord leads us is not the easy path, it is the "narrow gate."  We all must give up any and everything and trust that the way He is leading is worth it.

Luke 14:33  So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

Mark 10:29  So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's,
v. 30  who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[bambam]

Thank you aqr for putting it in some down to earth terms for me.  Sometimes it is hard for me to find the words.  And Kat-you are right, and I have to admit I am really having a hard time with having to leave the church.  Not because I need it, but because of all of the conflict that will most certainly arise from my leaving.  Mainly with my husband.  If I were not married I would have been gone by now.  But I realize that it doesn't matter what my reasons are-I will leave when it is time for me to go.  Thank you all for your thoughts-I am glad I am not alone!!    

God be with you,
Beth 

[Kat]

Hi Beth,

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being pushy, and trying to get you to hurry up and leave the church.  I do realize that you are in a very delicant situation, you should just take your time and do what the spirit leads. I just hope your husband understands that you feel as strongly about what you believe as he does about what he believes.  You will continue to be in my prayers

mery, peace and love
Kat

[bambam]

Thanks Kat.  I don't feel like I am being pushed.   I WANT to leave the church, but I don't want to hurt anyone or get hurt.  Or at least I am not ready to yet.  You (and everyone) have  been so great.  I am glad I have a place to go. 

Blessings,
Beth