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[hillsbororiver]

Hello Brothers & Sisters,

Recently we read a dear Brother's testimony regarding his current feelings about continuing his fellowship and membership here, confusion weaved through this announcement and I must state that I could relate to it unambiguously as I have been there myself.

I have been a member here since 2005 and have seen all too many come and go, some of them were folks I truly cherished fellowshipping with, I was incredulous and even saddened by their sudden departure. Every situation has been unique of course but most had one of the following reasons for leaving.

Their topics of interest were not being addressed sufficiently.

They felt ignored or unappreciated.

They began to resent what they perceived to be too much credence to Ray, who is "only a man" (true) who (they believed) had no more spiritual wisdom than any other who sought God's spirit. (My own opinion and experience is that Ray has been given an incredible portion of spiritual understanding).

They also resented what they claimed to be cliqueishness among the membership where some within certain subgroups (their perception) only interacted with those within their "clique."

They felt they were spending too much time seeking the approval of others (here) rather than seeking the One on one relationship with our Lord that is absolutely essential to our salvation.

There are other subsets of reasons too, some just did not feel there was a need for moderators or censoring other teachings here (even though that is fully addressed prior to membership). This feeling would spiral into animosity toward any moderator or member who would remind them of this basic, fundamental purpose of what the purpose of the Bible Truths Forum is all about.

Another reason would be their disenchantment with how personal revelations or teachings (sometimes very compelling) are not encouraged publicly, that Bible Truths would restrict members from using the Forum as a podium for their own compulsion to teach, ironically many of these same people who would state we do not "need men to teach us" would afford themselves the right to teach others.

Some just began to feel the rules should not apply to them any longer.

I am not saying that we should not privately share discoveries with each other (PM's, email, phone, etc.) that perhaps are not addressed by Ray, only that the reason most of us are even (sincerely) here is because of the articles Ray has written and how these articles spoke to our spirit, we read them and we were filled with joy and amazement at what we saw as the real Good News of God.

It is true that certain folks relate better with some people rather than others, this is our present (temporal) reality, it is not going to change until we experience "the change," when we are totally spiritual creatures, we must have patience, empathy and mercy toward those we are not in complete harmony with whether that be here, in the churches, or in the world. We will not experience real spiritual growth until we realize and accept this, we can gain knowledge, memorizing chapter and verse, even become fluent in the root words of Hebrew and Greek impressing many who come into our spheres of this life. But guess what, pure knowledge is not wisdom.

Folks please keep in mind the original reason you first wanted to join with us (you remember don't you?), we make no claims of perfection, there may be times you feel slighted or unappreciated, there may be times that the things you want to discuss do not resonate with others but this is all part of growing in spirit. If anyone was alone and could not really count on human compassion and loyalty it is our Lord Jesus, He is our example as well as our goal, to be One with Him and our Father we must be overcomers, and we must be merciful and compassionate, patient and longsuffering.

This will never be a perfect oasis from trials and tribulations but I have not found (not for a lack of searching) a better place to fellowship with my Brothers and Sisters who are also sojourning through this earthly obstacle course our Father has deemed necessary for our ultimate perfection.

I have probably (once again) gone on a bit too long but I want to close with just one verse;

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

His Peace to you all,

Joe

             

[Ninny]

Joe I very much appreciate this post. It makes me very sad when people decide to leave it hurts worse when they just leave without saying good bye. I for one get very attached to the people on this forum. I love them dearly and I feel bad when time goes by and I haven't seen someone post for awhile. Everyone here is so dear to me. I will admit that some are easier to get along with than others, but we just have to learn to deal with each other's differences!

When we remember that the reason we came here was because we understand that there is no other place to fellowship with like believers. There have been many days when just a word from someone here lifted me up and held me in place. The prayers of everyone here are the prayers of faithful friends and brothers and sisters  each one is an wonderful gift to me. I love sharing with everyone on this forum and I have enjoyed getting to know some better through pm's and email and now even on facebook! This is a great family and a great place to fellowship and enjoy each other in the Lord!

Thanks again, Joe for sharing this!
Love,
Kathy

[daywalker]

Hello Joe,

I may not have been here that long [almost a year] but I too have noticed that a few members which I talked with before, haven't let any comments/posts in a long time. I just pray that God is there with them, wherever they are, guiding them along "the path of righteousness".

I think some people just have a problem discerning between sharing thoughts and ideas, and trying to "teach" people. I've left several posts of 'revelations' [in my view] and other truths that have become clear to me, and many of us leave posts with words of guidance and wisdom for others here, especially the "newbies". Some of these could be interpreted as "teaching", but in reality it's just us helping out each other, and sharing what we've learned in the Scriptures and through Ray's teachings, and expanding on them, the correct way, by following God's Guidelines, such as:

1. "rightly dividing the Word of God"--II Timothy 2:15

2. "but in a multitude of counselors there is safety"--Proverbs 11:14

etc...

From my experience here so far, I believe the moderators have done an EXCELLENT job in discerning whether someone is attempting to by "our teacher", or someone is simply sharing their thoughts, ideas. Furthermore, between the moderators and the rest of the members here [especially the 'veteran' ones], I believe this Forum does a SUPERB job at sticking to the Scriptures, rather than throwing out random opinions and getting into "futile debates".

But that's just from my experience here. Perhaps there used to be more issues in the past, but since I've been here, this Forum has truly been LIKE NO OTHER ON THE INTERNET!! 


- Daywalker. 

[Kat]

Thanks Joe, very well put.
I think we have to be careful not to take this forum for granted and to recognize what a privilege it is to have this place.  The truth is so precious and rare and to have a group of people of like mind to discuss these things with is a phenomenon.  I know that God has given us this place and will keep it going as long as He sees fit.  God willing this forum will be here until Jesus returns, but we don't know that it will.  So I just want to make the most of this place every day that I can  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

  

[Nelson]

Hi folks,

Blessings to you Joe and as a 'new veteran' I know exactly what you're saying. These things have happened in the past and I'm sure they will happen again in the future too.

Joe knows me quite well and he'll confirm what I say. I have been a member of BT for many years and there were problems some years ago and the forum switched to this new format. Shortly after that there were many divisions among members and too many posts were ending up as fruitless debates and outright arguments. There were personal attacks on Ray (even though everyone should know that he doesn't visit this forum), on the moderators, and I even had detractors caning my person too.

All that resulted was division and the body suffered as a result. It was very sad to see these things happening but I'd say that it was the very sickle that this site needed. Well, those 'others' went off and started their own forums etc. and BT carried on. I remained a member here but also visited those other forums. Having seen the damage that comes from 'debates', 'rebuttles' and 'teachings' I reduced my visits on forums to just reading a few posts but I did drop the odd post here and there. I spent time with the Lord, some time in the wilderness and some time with Joe (on a visit to Florida last year) and that worked well for me. I did most of my communicating privately through PM's and did not post very often in the forums.

The Lord has shown me many wonderful things, He brought me to BT where I learned much truth and gained valuable fellowship. The way to life is difficult and physical fellowship is very minimal and so this board is a beacon for God's elect. It is the fellowship and edifying found here that's like food for my soul, that's why I spend most of my time in this section of the forum. We have a oneness of the spirit that should be enjoyed and a love among ourselves that can be expressed through the internet as well as felt in our spirit.

I can understand that some may feel burdened trying to read through and/or replying to posts on the forum, but if we've reached a point where that is so then we must take serious stock of what we are doing and more importantly, WHY we're doing it.

This place is our congregation, let's use it to edify and build up, to offer support & prayer to each other, to share what the Lord is showing us and to accept some reproof where needed (I certainly know the value of that), and this place will not be the house of blues, but the house of the rising Son (sorry couldn't resist that one) and then we can all bask in the warmth rather than shiver in the cold.

The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit my brothers and sisters

Nelson

[daywalker]

AMEN NELSON!

You speak wise! 

Hi folks,

Blessings to you Joe and as a 'new veteran' I know exactly what you're saying. These things have happened in the past and I'm sure they will happen again in the future too.

Joe knows me quite well and he'll confirm what I say. I have been a member of BT for many years and there were problems some years ago and the forum switched to this new format. Shortly after that there were many divisions among members and too many posts were ending up as fruitless debates and outright arguments. There were personal attacks on Ray (even though everyone should know that he doesn't visit this forum), on the moderators, and I even had detractors caning my person too.

All that resulted was division and the body suffered as a result. It was very sad to see these things happening but I'd say that it was the very sickle that this site needed. Well, those 'others' went off and started their own forums etc. and BT carried on. I remained a member here but also visited those other forums. Having seen the damage that comes from 'debates', 'rebuttles' and 'teachings' I reduced my visits on forums to just reading a few posts but I did drop the odd post here and there. I spent time with the Lord, some time in the wilderness and some time with Joe (on a visit to Florida last year) and that worked well for me. I did most of my communicating privately through PM's and did not post very often in the forums.

The Lord has shown me many wonderful things, He brought me to BT where I learned much truth and gained valuable fellowship. The way to life is difficult and physical fellowship is very minimal and so this board is a beacon for God's elect. It is the fellowship and edifying found here that's like food for my soul, that's why I spend most of my time in this section of the forum. We have a oneness of the spirit that should be enjoyed and a love among ourselves that can be expressed through the internet as well as felt in our spirit.

I can understand that some may feel burdened trying to read through and/or replying to posts on the forum, but if we've reached a point where that is so then we must take serious stock of what we are doing and more importantly, WHY we're doing it.

This place is our congregation, let's use it to edify and build up, to offer support & prayer to each other, to share what the Lord is showing us and to accept some reproof where needed (I certainly know the value of that), and this place will not be the house of blues, but the house of the rising Son (sorry couldn't resist that one) and then we can all bask in the warmth rather than shiver in the cold.

The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit my brothers and sisters

Nelson

[G. Driggs]

Thank you Joe, and everyone else. Very edifying, beneficial and humbling to be reminded as to why we are all here. This is very encouraging, and uplifting spiritually. All the glory is His.

Peace & Love
G.Driggs

[Extol]

Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


             

Thanks for sharing that great verse, Joe. That was the best part of your whole post. 

[Marlene]

I love all the post here. I agree so much with them. When, I first joined although I read for a year. I just could not get over my feelings for the people in Babylon. Ones, who I loved. But, I never understood Gods Good News or his plan for the whole world.

I had a hard time not thinking like Babylon for a long time. But, the Hell issue and Tithe and Trinity were easier for me to believe . I will be honest. Where, I went to church they very seldom spoke in OT scriptures.  I am trying to get where I like to read the OT more. Some of you all just amaze me of how you know and understand OT and its spiritual relationship to us. I am learning as God leads. I never wanted to be a teacher, leader . I know, how important it is not to teach false things. I was having a hard time not feeling sorry for all those lost in Babylon. I was one for a long time. I really thought Hell must be true till I read Ray's articles and God let me believe.

I have gone into one christian forum that teaches some of the things like Ray. That, lasted one day. It was total confusion every one talking there own mind and no scripture. I need the guidance with the scriptures. I make up a folder on scriptures you all have brought up in topics so I can remember them and help my bad memory from a stroke a year before coming in here. Now, I read in different versions to help my understanding.

When, I first came in here I felt like a fish out of water. I felt misunderstood. Some, of the scriptures I was still seeing with blind eyes. You could have beat me up with them and I would not have understood. I thought, I was doing more harm then good by being in here. But, then God gave the desire to keep on learning and being patient with him and he would teach me and give me understanding.

But, I love all of you. Someone often post about something I am going through that day or during the week. I love all the ones who can show me scriptures and then God opens my eyes. Just, a thought you might give on the scriptures. I know, I am a long ways off then many of you. But, now I know I am right where God wants me to be. I don't care about my bad memory. I don't care about my days of physical pain. I am just eager to learn what ever the good Lord lets me. I thank him every day and night for all of you. God has always enabled me to be a fighter when I was very ill working. I did my job as if God was standing there watching me. He was my boss. When, I became to ill to work, every bit of time I can I come in here and read my Bible all the time.
I cannot get enough of God period. That,s why I made copies of Ray's papers so I could read if I am laying down. My sleeping patterns are strange because of pain. But, I can talk to God or I can read . Or he gives me rest. Or he helps the pain. I know, God has made me a fighter.

I always ask God to kick me in the rump if this becomes about me. If, I am so sensitive and can't get over myself.  I was senstive at first when I came in here. But, God got me over that.  I know, of others who have left. I see there names in black. I pray for them. Then, I think what may have happened that they left. I have some I love who have pm me. They left and I do not know why. Could be for various reasons. But, I pray often for them. I think they might have passed away. Or, having money problems. I just pray and wait to see if God helps them to return.

Well, I did not plan on making a book about this. But, like Joe, after reading others who believe some like Ray  they differ on many things. When , you read even some of there books you find they are not always matching up with scriptures. God has lead Ray with his Spirit. It is the only thing I found that goes into the deep things of Christ. It truely is Bible truths. It never ceases to amaze me when God increases my understanding. What, really amazes me is when I see him helping me to live it not just know it.

I hope we never loose this and I thank God for Ray and all of you. But, I also know if it should happen we will be ok cause God is in it all . This is a gift from God and I thank him. Yes, like Ray's said, that he is just a human. So, we all are. But, you are my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and I take this serious.

In His Love,
Marlene

[G. Driggs]

Great post Marlene, we cant go wrong if we keep focused on Him always.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways, acknowledge him, and, he, will make straight thy paths. (Rotherham)

Pro 4:18  The path of those who do what is right is like the first gleam of dawn. It shines brighter and brighter until the full light of day (NIrV)

Act 2:25  For David says this about him: 'I saw Adonai always before me, for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken.
Act 2:26  For this reason, my heart was glad; and my tongue rejoiced; and now my body too will live on in the certain hope
Act 2:27  that you will not abandon me to Sh'ol or let your Holy One see decay.
Act 2:28  You have made known to me the ways of life; you will fill me with joy by your presence.' (CJB)

Peace & Love
G.Driggs

[bluzman]

Thank you for the wonderful message Joe, which is warming my heart.
Bluzman

[aqrinc]

Thanks Joe,

When i grow up i want to be able to write just like you. I know that takes time and study and eating humble pie often. That humble pie i have learned to like the taste of, much better than pumpkin pie, which i do not like.

There is not part of your post, that i would not heartily endorse. Thanks for saying for me, what i cannot yet express as eloquently as you just did.

It is a painful experience whenever someone gets offended or tired and leave without even a so long or goodbye. There really are so few people, in this Country of over 300 million population, that one can discuss the more profound Truths Of GOD'S Scripture.

I think that is enough from me, except to add, all my BT sisthren and brethren are today, the only ones that i can even discuss The Scriptures with. That is without being regarded as a three headed monster, who hates GOD, and despises the Sacrifice Of Jesus Christ.

LORD; how much longer,

george.

[bambam]

Dear Joe,

I always wish to share my heart and my thoughts on here but I know that I am just a babe.   You are wise.  God has blessed this forum with some wise and humble moderators, and pride has always been one of my problems!!;-)  thank you for the balance you bring.  There is a peace here because of it.  I do not get to comment much, but I LOVE to read and sometimes ask questions.  I also listen to the audios and videos from Ray and have been learning much.  So thank you for this place and praise be to God for it!  I hope I do not have to leave again!  I missed it so!

Beth    

[ez2u]

I have been here a couple of years.  Everyone here seems ,to me , at different growth areas.  At one time I stop posting and did stop reading but kept remembering the life that was here.  So i came back to listen and read.  It has taken me some time to get in part the message.  I am probably one of those very mess up person that Christ has mercy upon and teaches and draws to Him.  I feel very blessed.  I know this forum is not perfect it has some issues.  Jesus Christ is the perfect one.,  but i have so many too, and I am getting fed on this forum,  Thank You JESUS!!!!  so people coming and going there is a reason for that.  God will bring those back whom He wants too.  What my prayer is Lord give me the ability to know what is Your will and the strength to do it and to persevere.  God bless  peggy 

[mharrell08]

Thank you for this post Joe and I want to add on only 1 thing for all of us:

Isa 29:13  Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matt 15:8  This people draweth nigh unto me [the Lord] with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:6  He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

These posts that Joe, Craig, George, Nelson, and many others have created here and in times past, by the Will of God, are a true blessing. They speak to us directly to turn us away from our carnal attitudes and repent of who & what we are.

But they have to be more than words in our lives...it is not enough to say, 'Great post...I really need that', but then to fall away and back into carnal lusts of the heart. One would have been better to not say anything than to 'draw nigh with their lips, though their hearts are far away'. Aren't we all TIRED of the same run around...the same back-biting...the same silly doctrinal issues that are more about one's knowledge than their love of Christ?

Think about the children of Israel...'our admonition' [1 Cor 10:11]...even if you don't know or understand all the types/shadows that are present in the OT, there is one thing that is very obvious about the ancient Israelites that the scriptures harp on more than anything: THEY CONTINUALLY FELL AWAY FROM WHAT WAS PLEASING TO THE LORD...CONSISTENTLY! You don't have to be a biblical scholar to see that...and that's what WE have to stop doing as well. Otherwise, what's the point?

Now, we know that of ourselves, we can do nothing [John 15:5]...so let us look unto the Lord, as we are complete in Him [Col 2:10]. But THIS is what we need to repent of...this is what we need to ask him to work IN us...this change of who & what we are, completely. Otherwise, how are we any different...how are learning from the examples of the ancient Israelites?

Let us not be as that nation, hypocrites and back-sliding...the Lord has something BETTER for us [Heb 11:40]...if we don't repent and seek the Lord from these admonitions these members have shown us but only give lip service, we will not go further in our walk with Christ. Repent means to turn away from...to stop doing it...not just talk about it, but do it.


Thanks,

Marques

[Marlene]

I so agree, Marques!  That, overcoming the Beast! Only, God can help us do it! We are complete in him. It is a process. I so want to be like him.
I really hate when I go back to the dog vomit.

In His Love,
Marlene

[walt123]

Thanks Joe for that post
 
I remember when God led me to the site,it has taken me almost a couple of months reading after work.
To be honset i am not into chic chatting, but most of the time get to the point kind of person,like so whats the
conclusion of the matter already.but i am learning slowly but surely ,to have balance in understanding
other non Scripture  points ,chewing the fat so to speak.
I don't post much but I do quick scanning on the forum and read what i think is interesting.

This is just my personal thoughts at this time.


PS. It is good  having this forum to come to with people who have the same goal as is on rays site.
Walt.

[Roy Martin]

I couldn't help it. I had to check in. I'm glad I did. I've done a lot of praying for the last two days.
 I'm still taking a break, but I realize that I can't and don't want to be away for a long period of time.
 I know that I'm am in a trial, being tested and humbled.
I'm having personal issues that I wish I could share with just the forum.
 I agree with, and share with all of the above post. I know that this is where God wants me to be. We have to have the fellowship. There is no where else we can do this.
 Just letting everyone know that I'm here to stay.
There is much I could talk about right now, but this is Joe's thread, and a good one too.
 One thing for sure is I am not a quitter. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth when I say things on the forum.I have learned all too well that I have to make mistakes.I've made them all my life, but this is one place I can make them and be corrected in love and compassion and understanding and wisdom, etc.
 
Peace
Roy

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Brothers and Sisters,

Thank you all for your insights, additions and thoughtful comments, there are so many excellent points to consider and reflect on.

Lately it seems everything I look into scripturally boils down to mercy and compassion for all, we all have been uplifted immeasurably by this realization when it pertains to God's love and mercy toand for us, our families and our friends.

Praise God we have been given this Light from above, how sweet it is!

But with this wisdom comes an obligation, we must decrease as He increases within us, as we well know this is not an easy process, as Ray as commented on many times "salvation is the hardest thing we will ever have to experience." Being transformed from a selfish, sometimes self righteous beast into a Son or Daughter of the Living God and gaining His attributes of patience and mercy requires losing a whole lot of baggage accumulated through the years and replacing it with empathy and a long suffering compassion to all His creation. This very often is a very bitter pill to swallow.

Meditating on this has really brought to life the following verses;

Rev 10:9  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
 
Rev 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
 
Yes, the true good news of the Gospel is sweet as honey, living these Words however is the hard part. Believe me I know this very well from first hand experience! 

Only through His Spirit will obedience become reality.

Peace to you all,

Joe

P.S. I hope to be able to address some of the responses a little later today, this is another day where we have some places to go and people to see! 

[kweli]

Hello everybody

Yet again, thank you Joe for a timely post. Just wish to add an extract from Ray's Lake of Fire paper: http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm

Installment XVI, Part D-4

JUDGMENT AS DEFINED BY SCRIPTURE IS GOOD

REPENTANCE: "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32). Strong's #3341 metanoia--"compunction (for guilt), reversal." Metanoia (the noun) is from #3340, metanoeo (the verb), which means: "to perceive afterwards, implying change... the mind, the seat of moral reflection... hence signifies to change one's mind or purpose" (Vines Concise Dictionary of Bible Words.)

The very first word to humanity out of Jesus' mouth after being tempted by Satan in the wilderness was "repent..." (Matt. 4:17). And what does "repent" mean? It means to change. And what have I been teaching since we started bible-truths.com? That God is changing physical, carnal humanity into the spiritual Image of God. That's what our existence is all about. This is the purpose for humanity. This is the next goal in the plan of God. To make carnal, physical humanity into the Spiritual Image of God. It's all about change. God is going to change the entire human race. And once you understand this first word "repentance," you will understand the other spiritual and pious sounding words of Scripture. They all involve change-changing from what we are into what God is.

• This word repentance sets the stage for all other commandments and admonitions regarding a change from what we are to what we should and MUST BE.
• We are to turn from our carnal human nature and sin, to God's spiritual love and righteousness.
• It is God Who will change us from what we are to what He is.
• God is creating humanity into the very Spiritual Image of Himself (that is what it's all about).
• This is the enigma of the Scriptures.
• This is the great parable of the Bible.
• This is the purpose for creation.
• This is the destiny of mankind.
• This is God's master purpose.
• This will be God's greatest accomplishment.
• This will be the Crowning Masterpiece of God's eternal wisdom, power, and love.
• God is calling you and me to this awesome journey!

I really like the third bullet:  It is God Who will change us from what we are to what He is. This is what we've been learning all along. From the "Winning Souls for Jesus" study to the Free will studies. I believe we really ought to decrease so HE increases. I'm not preaching/teaching. I do hope and pray that we could all increase in our Galatians 5:22-23 spiritual produce. That is Christ. That (to me) is Him increasing in me.

All Glory to GOD
 
BTW, the gospel is indeed  bitter sweet. I dont even know where to begin in outlining that to someone else...