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[hillsbororiver]

Dear Joe,

I always wish to share my heart and my thoughts on here but I know that I am just a babe.   You are wise.  God has blessed this forum with some wise and humble moderators, and pride has always been one of my problems!!;-)  thank you for the balance you bring.  There is a peace here because of it.  I do not get to comment much, but I LOVE to read and sometimes ask questions.  I also listen to the audios and videos from Ray and have been learning much.  So thank you for this place and praise be to God for it!  I hope I do not have to leave again!  I missed it so!

Beth    

Hello Beth,

Although I do appreciate your kind words I know that I have a very long road to travel before I could even use the word wise in describing myself.

I know there are quite a few people out there (members and guests alike) who have struggles with husbands, wives, relatives and friends who find many of the beliefs we share to be heretical even devilish. It can be a lonely journey at times but this is exactly how God designed it! Yes, it is good to have people we can relate to spiritually but the most important thing is our One on one relationship with Christ, the source of all the wisdom any of us might attain.

There is no doubt your particular situation has touched many people.

His Peace and Strength to you Sister,

Joe     

[hillsbororiver]

I have been here a couple of years.  Everyone here seems ,to me , at different growth areas.  At one time I stop posting and did stop reading but kept remembering the life that was here.  So i came back to listen and read.  It has taken me some time to get in part the message.  I am probably one of those very mess up person that Christ has mercy upon and teaches and draws to Him.  I feel very blessed.  I know this forum is not perfect it has some issues.  Jesus Christ is the perfect one.,  but i have so many too, and I am getting fed on this forum,  Thank You JESUS!!!!  so people coming and going there is a reason for that.  God will bring those back whom He wants too.  What my prayer is Lord give me the ability to know what is Your will and the strength to do it and to persevere.  God bless  peggy 

Hi Peggy,

Yes we are all in "different growth areas" as even in the physical world no two things can occupy the same exact space it is true in our spiritual journey, but we are all in God's omnipresence at all times! We can never journey outside of His watchful eye.

I am right with you as far as being one who messes up often and relies on the mercy of Christ to continue in this spiritual walk, I can say confidently that we are not alone in that regard Sister!

Your prayer really does sum up what this experience should be all about.

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Thank you for this post Joe and I want to add on only 1 thing for all of us:

Isa 29:13  Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matt 15:8  This people draweth nigh unto me [the Lord] with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:6  He [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

These posts that Joe, Craig, George, Nelson, and many others have created here and in times past, by the Will of God, are a true blessing. They speak to us directly to turn us away from our carnal attitudes and repent of who & what we are.

But they have to be more than words in our lives...it is not enough to say, 'Great post...I really need that', but then to fall away and back into carnal lusts of the heart. One would have been better to not say anything than to 'draw nigh with their lips, though their hearts are far away'. Aren't we all TIRED of the same run around...the same back-biting...the same silly doctrinal issues that are more about one's knowledge than their love of Christ?

Think about the children of Israel...'our admonition' [1 Cor 10:11]...even if you don't know or understand all the types/shadows that are present in the OT, there is one thing that is very obvious about the ancient Israelites that the scriptures harp on more than anything: THEY CONTINUALLY FELL AWAY FROM WHAT WAS PLEASING TO THE LORD...CONSISTENTLY! You don't have to be a biblical scholar to see that...and that's what WE have to stop doing as well. Otherwise, what's the point?

Now, we know that of ourselves, we can do nothing [John 15:5]...so let us look unto the Lord, as we are complete in Him [Col 2:10]. But THIS is what we need to repent of...this is what we need to ask him to work IN us...this change of who & what we are, completely. Otherwise, how are we any different...how are learning from the examples of the ancient Israelites?

Let us not be as that nation, hypocrites and back-sliding...the Lord has something BETTER for us [Heb 11:40]...if we don't repent and seek the Lord from these admonitions these members have shown us but only give lip service, we will not go further in our walk with Christ. Repent means to turn away from...to stop doing it...not just talk about it, but do it.


Thanks,

Marques

Dear Brother Marques,

There really isn't much I can add to your excellent message. The "doing" really is the hard part isn't it? I hope folks take what you wrote to heart, I know I have gained from it!

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Thanks Joe for that post
 
I remember when God led me to the site,it has taken me almost a couple of months reading after work.
To be honset i am not into chic chatting, but most of the time get to the point kind of person,like so whats the
conclusion of the matter already.but i am learning slowly but surely ,to have balance in understanding
other non Scripture  points ,chewing the fat so to speak.
I don't post much but I do quick scanning on the forum and read what i think is interesting.

This is just my personal thoughts at this time.


PS. It is good  having this forum to come to with people who have the same goal as is on rays site.
Walt.

Hi Walt,

What you wrote defines exactly what keeps this place interesting as well as frustrating for me (I am quite sure I am not alone). Some folks are deliberate, circumspect and are not given to jump in with both feet before thoroughly evaluating a given situation. Often after a period of sorting through stupid and impetuous words and/or deeds of mine things will slow down and I realize that unbridled enthusiasm can breed impatience which gives birth to thoughtlessness which in turn can lead to a multitude of ungodly behaviors.

Impulsiveness has always been an issue for me and I can directly apply that trait to many problems I have experienced and caused, of course many bitter moments of self evaluation followed when even through my best effort self justification did not cut it.

During these periods I have wished (eventually began to pray) that I could be more like you have described yourself, unconcerned with making a splash, taking time to understand a matter without that feeling of anxiousness and a self imposed frenzy that has often caused me and those around me more trouble than is or was necessary.

Thankfully the Lord has been tapping me on the shoulder more often of late before I actually begin to allow my "energetic" old man take control of things, yes from time to time I still fail but it is recognized much earlier and my self justification skills have eroded immensely.

You might be asking "what the heck does this have to do with what was quoted by Walt?" 

Well, I have learned (often the hard way) that when we react impulsively even to what could be considered a good thing and especially to things we find disagreeable we are very susceptible to the temptations of our adversary and I believe that is the reason patience is valued so highly throughout the scriptures.

No doubt Peter was full of good intentions but his impulsiveness sure earned him plenty of rebukes and hard lessons during his journey with Jesus.
John on the other hand (with a couple exceptions) displayed more of a trusting and patient attitude that certainly appeared to please our Lord.

Thank you for your response.

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I couldn't help it. I had to check in. I'm glad I did. I've done a lot of praying for the last two days.
 I'm still taking a break, but I realize that I can't and don't want to be away for a long period of time.
 I know that I'm am in a trial, being tested and humbled.
I'm having personal issues that I wish I could share with just the forum.
 I agree with, and share with all of the above post. I know that this is where God wants me to be. We have to have the fellowship. There is no where else we can do this.
 Just letting everyone know that I'm here to stay.
There is much I could talk about right now, but this is Joe's thread, and a good one too.
 One thing for sure is I am not a quitter. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth when I say things on the forum.I have learned all too well that I have to make mistakes.I've made them all my life, but this is one place I can make them and be corrected in love and compassion and understanding and wisdom, etc.
 
Peace
Roy

Hey there Roy,

A bit of time has passed since you posted this and praise God the issues you referred to seem to have become less stressful and perhaps have begun to heal.

Your fellowship and openness are greatly appreciated!

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

BTW, the gospel is indeed  bitter sweet. I dont even know where to begin in outlining that to someone else...  

Hi Kweli,

Unless they are living it Brother they will not understand.  

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Akira329]

I don't know what I would do without this place.
I may not post as often as I use to but I read quite often.
Sometimes the statements people make here need no addition from me!LOL
I thank God soooo much for you guys and gals!!
I thank God for the friendships I have established here that I need soooooo much!!
Thanks again for your insight Joe.
Your pretty precious to this forum man!!

Antaiwan

[OBrenda]

Joe,

*  I've had times of dispare with the loss of people I grew very fond of here, (who have left)
*  I have felt anger at certain members whom I felt spoke with cruelty.
*  I have had my thoughts and comments taken inncorrectly.
*  I have been incorrect in my understanding, of what others struggle to articulate.
*  I have changed my position and understanding of things because of the responses to my comments from others.
*  Somethings I have not changed my understanding about and I'm still confused.

I do not know why some leave us, and some like myself stay.  But I strongly agree with you and embrace that staying here is not a (religious physical act) prerequisite for being the Chosen among the Called.  I'm truly tired of the "salesman manipulations" of every group to label and draw a circle around themselves as "the only true group"

I'm sandwiched tightly with one dear Friend whose path is now celebrating the Saturday Sabbath/No Pork/using the correct Name of Yashua/Jesus, basically adopting the OT laws (physically) But also with the insight of no Trinity, God is in control (predestination), and I think UR is also believed.

On the other side I have others who are desperate to set me right on the Trinity, the fear of Hell, no Free Will, if we don't take the gift of Salvation in this life by choice it is a done deal.  I've found it interesting that when speaking about these issues with scriptures, both camps end up expressing fear... (well I don't want to eat pork just in case).. (What if your wrong about Hell just in case).

I don't want to live my life here motivated by fear (just in case) I want to live and move and have my being directed by Faith.
The Fear or Respect that I live with today, is understanding that I may be a vessel of dishonor and within myself is not the power to decide it.  It is also humbling to know that of all the creative dynamic souls I know and admire. ordinary me could have a place to be in the first reserection...WOW!

Although I will endover to speak the truth of the scriptures with boldness (as I understand them) I no longer feel the arrogance that I need to defend and stick up for our Heavenly Father God.  He is very well capable of defending himself.  Sometimes my ego gets in there still.  What people believe... has no reflection on ME personally.  It is God who gives eyes to see and not to see.  I'm confident that I still have much blindness myself.

The point of every interaction with others is to find what never fails..... Love.
I see and have learned that simple but profound truth here.  And although the beast my still peek his head in here, I'm so very grateful to have had the privilege to bump spirits with all of you.

I haven't had much to share lately, but this post inspired my mouth to run over...

YSIC,
Brenda

[mharrell08]

Well said Brenda, well said.


Marques

[Samson]

Hello,

         Thanks to Joe for starting this thread, I've been following the Posts of the thread, but haven't commented, until now. I generally don't comment as often, as in the past, unless I really have something to contribute and if a particular point is already expressed that summarizes my thoughts on that subject.

         Marques made a fine contribution and many others, as well. The thoughts expressed by Brenda seem to summarize my perspective regarding the whole religious/spiritual subject. See some of her comments copied and pasted from her Post in blue, particular points, I share as well.

         I do not know why some leave us, and some like myself stay.  But I strongly agree with you and embrace that staying here is not a (religious physical act) prerequisite for being the Chosen among the Called.  I'm truly tired of the "salesman manipulations" of every group to label and draw a circle around themselves as "the only true group"

         I don't want to live my life here motivated by fear (just in case) I want to live and move and have my being directed by Faith.
The Fear or Respect that I live with today, is understanding that I may be a vessel of dishonor and within myself is not the power to decide it.  It is also humbling to know that of all the creative dynamic souls I know and admire. ordinary me could have a place to be in the first reserection...WOW!


         Although I will endover to speak the truth of the scriptures with boldness (as I understand them) I no longer feel the arrogance that I need to defend and stick up for our Heavenly Father God.  He is very well capable of defending himself.  Sometimes my ego gets in there still.  What people believe... has no reflection on ME personally.  It is God who gives eyes to see and not to see.  I'm confident that I still have much blindness myself

         The above comments in blue of Brenda's, in particular, for the most part express my perspective on matters. Due to time constraints, I was unable to join the conversation at an earlier time. One thing, I'd like to express, as mentioned from Joe's initial list regarding people's complaints prior to leaving the Forum, the point he made regarding certain members that tend to gravitate in conversation and closeness, this tends to happen, not only inside the forum, but outside, as well. I guess one might say, it's only natural(probably Carnal), but fact, no less. Of course there is a Scripture that mentions widening out in ones fellowship with other believers, but couldn't find it. I admit that I'm guilty of being drawn to conversation with particular members, especially when we tend to think alike with these members, admittedly it's the path of least resistance.

                                      Kind Regards, Samson.

[smeacham]

I'm sandwiched tightly with one dear Friend whose path is now celebrating the Saturday Sabbath/No Pork/using the correct Name of Yashua/Jesus, basically adopting the OT laws (physically) But also with the insight of no Trinity, God is in control (predestination), and I think UR is also believed.

God leads us down these paths to learn our lessons and change us into His image.  Your friend may someday (soon?) realize the futility of following those laws in the flesh.  They may, like me, continue to follow some of God's physical laws, like not eating unclean things, not lying, and not sleeping with my neighbor's wife.  I think (hope?) that we don't do that for the wrong reasons.

Just remember that God plans the paths, and keeps us on them exactly how long He plans to - no more, no less, and He always has a good reason.  You may doubt, but never despair.

BTW, I use not eating pork as an excellent segue into spiritual discussions at least once or twice a month, for example.

Steve

[Phil3:10]

Joe, Nelson and all others who have posted,
Thanks Joe for this post. Your insight is always a light unto my path. I have been on vacation for the past 2 weeks and have had little time to visit the forum. The hours spent tonight have been such a joy and have refreshed me much more than my vacation.
It is such a blessing to spend time in this forum and to share with my brothers and sisters in CHRIST in discussion, in open questions and in true fellowship. As Samson said, so well,  "we don't know why some leave" to which I might add but we do know why so many stay. It is all of GOD and it is HIM who gives eyes to see and to not see.
The greatest thing about this forum is that we all agree that it is all of HIM and to HIM is all praise and honor due.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[walt123]

Thanks Joe for replying to so many , its shows  me much control patience and a good light to see and a second thanks for this blockbuster post
I have learned much from all who reply ed .

Walt

[Nelson]

Hi Samson,

Of course there is a Scripture that mentions widening out in ones fellowship with other believers, but couldn't find it.

I think that you mean this one, correct me if I'm wrong,

• "YOU are not cramped for room within us, but YOU are cramped for room in YOUR own tender affections. So, as a recompense in return-I speak as to children-YOU, too, widen out" (2 Cor 6:12, 13 NWT)

Here's the same verses in some other translations,

• "Ye are not straitened in us, but are straitened in your hearts' affections; Howbeit, by way of the like recompense-as, unto children, I speak, be enlarged, even, ye." (REV)

• "Not distressed are you in us, yet you are distressed in your compassions. Now, as a recompense in kind (as to children am I saying this), you also be broadened!" (CLV)

• "We are not holding back on our love for you, but you are holding back on your love for us. I speak to you as I would speak to my own children. Please make room in your hearts for us." (CEV)

What great verses and timely reminders, thanks for that Samson. I'll end with this verse,

• "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart" (1 Pe 1:22)

Amen to that!

Grace and peace to you

Nelson

[Samson]

Nelson,

           Thanking for finding that Scripture regarding: " Widening Out. " Also, enjoyed your Testimony on that other Thread with Link regarding your leaving the JW's. Sometimes, I wonder if they used that widening out Scripture to keep Congregational members from getting too close, so as to not disturb their control of the rank/file members. Just a passing thought.

                                Kind Regards, Samson.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi all!  What a wonderful thread!  I am so blessed reading everyones' posts.  Thank you.

 I used to post all the time and love all the cyber-family I have "met" thru this forum.  I don't post as much and as new ones come on it is OK for me to not feel I have to post.  I come on almost every day and try to keep up w what is going on.  I love the fellowship here.  But it never fails to amaze me, after all these years, when people post excerpts from Ray, that I realize why we are all here.  It is the truths that we learn from Ray. That is what bonds me to all of you.

The mods have been wonderful.  I, like Nelson and Joe, remember the old days.  trust us folks, the forum "rules and regulations" are to help us not hinder us. Pray for the moderators and for each other.  Lift Ray up.  Rejoice in what God has done and Will do.

Love,
gena

Hi Gena,

Earlier in this thread I was kidding when I said I would respond to every post even if it takes me until the November Mobile Conference to do it, now it is starting to look like I just might need all of that time to fulfill that statement.

Although I still post frequently compared to some I don't comment nearly as much as I once did as I am now content more often than not to observe and meditate on what others are presently experiencing. There is (and really never was) a reason for me to toss in my 2 cents every time a new topic is presented.

Yes, there does seem to be a special connection with many of our brothers and sisters here, often I have been struck by the feeling of "meeting an old friend for the first time" when I have had the opportunity and pleasure of visiting with members in person either on our own time in our own cities or at one of the Conferences. I guess that is a major reason I am surprised and perhaps a bit saddened when people I have had this contact with suddenly, without any explanation stop communicating. But as with every other mystery I am quite sure there will come a day when we will understand.

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Speaking for myself only, I continue to read several times a day however I have not felt like posting for quite some time.  I didn't grow up in a religious family.  I have almost no background in religion.  About four years ago (32 at the time), I happened to see a seventh day adventist show on TV that really struck a cord with me.  The next Saturday I found myself sitting in a SDA church, quietly singing songs and praying.  It did not take me long to get fired up and I would literally spend every free moment (many times until 5 or 6 in the morning) reading and researching everything to do with God, the bible, SDA etc. etc.  I gained a huge amount of knowledge in a short period of time. Lots of knowledge (but as Joe said) no wisdom.

It was around this time that I discovered Ray's site and subsequently this forum.  Anyway, to make a short story long, I used to post my opinions,quote scriptures, discuss and offer advice to friends and family, pray with my kids and was proud to be enlightened, until one day I realized that I wasn't nearly as "enlightened" as I thought I was.  I suddenly became quite embarrassed (and remain so) about my whole phony christian life.  So here I sit, a closet believer, afraid to discuss or even offer an opinion on anything Godly (can't even pray with my kids anymore).  I am in a bit of a dark place right now, as I am sure many of you have been, but am sure that one day I will snap out of it.  I don't know if I have ever asked for prayer before (if I did it was fake) but I do ask in earnest right now. 

Anyway, I am not even sure why I decided to write this or if it even adds anything to this thread but I just felt like I needed to say this. 

Scott

Hi Scott,

Sorry it took so long to respond to your post, but sometimes I am only capable of reading as there are periods when way too many things are running through my head to put down a paragraph that would make any sense.

I too spent some time with the 7th Day Adventists, it was a long time ago and it was really only for a couple years but coming from a Catholic background where religion was merely going through some rituals on Sundays for 30 to 60 minutes the Adventists seemed to present a religion that was robust, alive and rooted in the bible. I fell away, rather dramatically actually and dove head first back into a pleasure seeking carnal lifestyle that almost killed me a few times and could have left me serving a long prison term if God had not protected me from myself.

But going back to my time with the Adventists I spent many days when I read my bible for hours upon hours as well as the other "church" literature, more than a few people (my parents included) thought I had gone off the deep end with all that bible thumping, perhaps poor Joe had ingested one too many tabs of acid or some other hallucinogen and was now wandering about in never never land.....

Anyway, that period of study time really had paid dividends decades later when I "stumbled upon" or was "dragged to" Bible Truths, although I am not capable of quoting chapter and verse very often I did retain more bible memory that I realized, but this time when reading the articles the verses actually came alive!

I went through that period after learning the real Good News of wanting to share it with anyone and everyone within earshot, I became a clanging cymbal, an out of tune trumpet....

I also experience those darker, wilderness periods you speak of, they are not especially pleasant but when we recognize it for what it is, an opportunity to lean on and grow closer to our Lord it should provide an oasis of comfort in a hostile environment. He is the One who is our truest best friend wherever we are whatever circumstances we face, we can be thankful that He has chosen to correct us in the here and now perhaps preparing us for a great glorious work that is yet to come!

Peace to you Brother,

Joe       

[hillsbororiver]

Scott, I am touched by your post, and say with confidence that I know why you decided to write what you did. Its the choice that God wanted you to make, and God wants us to pray for you. Its not at all complicated as you may think it is. God has you where He wants you. We are no different than you. You are where you are for us, and us for you, and God for all of us and them.
 Scott, its when we get into that dark place as you say you are that God is working a wonderful work; about to  bring in some light into your life. God just brought me out of the closet. It may have been a different closet, but it was a closet non the less.
 Sounds like God just let a little light into your closet, otherwise you wouldn't have made a post, and asked for prayer. I'm excited for you and will pray for you right now and give thanks to Father God that His will is being done in your life.

Peace
Roy

Hello Roy,

This post of yours is a beautiful testimony of empathy, drawn from personal trials, I know of really no other way to gain this trait other than experience. This earthly journey, the paths our Father in heaven has deemed necessary for His Sons and Daughters to walk and stumble on does produce a character that could not be attained by a life of leisure and pleasure.

We read of Jesus who was perfect in spirit also needed time alone with His (our) Father, sometimes in the wilderness, other times on a mountain where He could spend One on One time conversing with the only One who really knew Him, His plan and His purpose.

He is our example so we should not be surprised or discouraged when we need this too.

Peace,

Joe       

[cjwood]

Dear joe,
i pray that there is a november bible conference this year for many, many reasons. one of which is i look forward to an opportunity to see you again and give you a big ole' brotherly/sisterly hug. you have been such an inspiration to all of us at this forum, and to me inparticular. in your reply to scott you mentioned that your family members thought you had ingested one too many tabs of acid or some other hallucinogen and that you had gone off the deep end and was wandering in never, never land. i just got home from visiting with my own momma for 5 days, at my childhood home. my momma and i were sitting at the dinner table eating lunch. we had been talking about the upcoming 5 yr. anniversary of my dad's unexpected death. my momma asked me "claudia, what do you think your daddy is doing right now?" i said, "i will tell you if you truly want to know." she then said, "well, tell me if you think you know so much." i told her, "it's not that i know so much, it's that i have cried out to God our Father to explain some of the questions i had and He has been opening my eyes to His Truths." i said, "daddy isn't doing anything momma, he is dead." i gave her scripture to back up this Truth. she just sat there looking off into space as if trying to understand what i was saying, but,  i have spoken to her (and other family members) before about some of these Truths, but they fell on deaf ears. being the "black sheep" in my family all of my life, walking through those deserts of drugs, and more drugs, sex before marriage, etc. etc. it is like anything i have to say regarding what i have been shown by God are discounted because of those days when my mind and actions were clouded in a drugged haze and a lost wandering (but our Father knew i was wandering by His drawing me to Him). like, why would God Almighty show me anything He has not shown them (especially since they go to church and i do not). anyway, got a little off topic joe, but i just wanted to say that i too have experienced prejudice from family members and friends because of the times i was so far away from His Truths (but all the while right where He wanted me to be). and, to tell you how you have been such a blessing to me.

claudia

[mharrell08]

i have spoken to her (and other family members) before about some of these Truths, but they fell on deaf ears. being the "black sheep" in my family all of my life, walking through those deserts of drugs, and more drugs, sex before marriage, etc. etc. it is like anything i have to say regarding what i have been shown by God are discounted because of those days when my mind and actions were clouded in a drugged haze and a lost wandering (but our Father knew i was wandering by His drawing me to Him). like, why would God Almighty show me anything He has not shown them (especially since they go to church and i do not).

Just some scriptures I thought of when reading your comments...your words testify and agree to what the scriptures tell us of our lot in life. Following an example, indeed...

Pet 2:21  For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Matt 13:54-58  And when He [Jesus] was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
  And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. And He did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mark 6:2-4  ...when the sabbath day was come, He [Jesus] began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
  But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but [Gk. 'except'] in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Luke 4:24  ...He [Jesus] said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country

John 15:17-19  These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


Marques