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Author Topic: Help re: those in LOF  (Read 12656 times)

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rocky

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« on: June 10, 2006, 01:12:34 AM »

I read through the first 7 installments of LOF series last night again, and what kept popping into my head that I'm having a hard time understanding is how are the unbelievers (resurrection of the unjust/wicked) resurrected in a state of carnality, in order to have the LOF burn out/destroy/purge the carnal mind?  

Seems to me that I Corinthians 15 states that we are raised incorruptible, immortal, spiritual, with power, with glory and to life.  

Life is Christ, carnality is death.  Doesnt make sense to me.  




Is I Corinthians talking about the resurrection of overcomers only??



For definition purposes, I have included these:

Spiritual is defined as:

G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'

From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.




1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


dishonor:

G819
ἀτιμία
atimia
at-ee-mee'-ah
From G820; infamy, that is, (subjectively) comparative indignity, (objectively) disgrace: - dishonour, reproach, shame, vile.

glory:

G1391
δόξα
doxa
dox'-ah
From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship.


weakness:

G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

power:

G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.


1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

quickening:

G2227
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.


 
spirit:

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma

pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.


1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

again,

spiritual:

G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'

From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.


1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

flesh:

G4561
σάρξ
sarx
sarx

Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).



Corruption

G5356
φθορά
phthora
fthor-ah'
From G5351; decay, that is, ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively): - corruption, destroy, perish.

Incorruption

G861
ἀφθαρσία
aphtharsia
af-thar-see'-ah
From G862; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: - immortality, incorruption, sincerity.


1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:


Seems to me those coming out of lake of fire are incorrupt, glorious, powerful, full of life, immortal, and spiritual, not those going into it.  



Any help in understanding this better would be appreciated.
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Daniel

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 03:53:06 PM »

I feel bad your down here by yourself Rocky :lol:  I loved the definitions you came on here with.

Especially this one

Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

Sounds like our "old man" which is first as is the natural first. Under "the law" of sin and death. Living in and after the flesh.

We are all canally/ earthly (terrestrial?) minded until we are given the "mind of Christ" (cellestrial?) heavenly minded?

Sounds like one being spiritually circumcised, "stripped" of the skin (or our old man) after a spiritual truth.

This one as well spiritually speaking

weakness:

G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The implication in the definition can also be seen in "the cause" Paul mentions in the same breath.

Just reading your post blessed me simply by way of the definitions. You can capture these very things in scripture. I'm not sure how this is seen here, so I'll let someone else answer for Ray. I just wanted to acknowledge your post.  :D

Great stuff

Peace

Daniel
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 04:10:12 PM »

Rocky, yes the resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 pertains to those in the 1st resurrection, as you will read in Lake of Fire Part 12;

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
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rocky

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 05:22:15 PM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Rocky, yes the resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 pertains to those in the 1st resurrection, as you will read in Lake of Fire Part 12;

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!


thanks Daniel and Joe.  If I Corinthians 15 is only referring to the 1st resurrection (overcomers), then it all makes sense.  For some reason, I thought that this chapter was talking about the 1st and general resurrection.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 06:35:01 PM »

Hi Rocky,

You are very welcome, when studying His Word we are at a great advantage when we come to the understanding that all the work and guidance (Divine) in preserving the bible (OT & NT) through the last few thousand years has primarily been for the benefit of His chosen, the elect.

Consider, these things for "you" (us, according to His will) to understand;

Mar 4:11  And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mat 13:13  Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they do they understand.

Luk 8:10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

We can see that the Word reaches to 3 levels of existence,

1) To the called, who at best can see the letter or keep down the milk (no put down intended).

2) Those of "the sea" the vast majority of humanity who never heard of or really cared one way or the other about our Lord. Even though not too many want to admit it, most "civilized" (by that I mean nation's with rule of law vs. despotic /tyranical rule)  nation's laws are deeply structured around the 10 Commandments. His Word influences the "beasts" of the worldly nations without their proper acknowledgement or approval!

3) The words in this book are written primarily for His chosen, the firstfruits;

Act 22:14  And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Jam 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

There are hundreds of verses in scripture that attest to this, what an incredible journey He has us on!

Joe
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chrissiela

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 06:50:03 PM »

Joe,

Are you saying that 1 Cor 15 is written ONLY for the elect?

Do we not ALL have to pass from death unto life, before death can be swallowed up in victory?

You also say:

Quote
3) The words in this book are written primarily for His chosen, the firstfruits;


What do you mean by that?  I don't know that I would say that the scriptures were written only, or even primarily, "for the elect"? Though, I understand that it is 'they' who will HEAR the words of the book, for it is 'they' Whom God will open it to.

I'm not sure I am understanding what you are saying there?

Christ came so that we might have life and have it more abundantly, but His words (whether they are heard or not, which is up to His choosing) are for ALL aren't they? Christ came to be the savior of the world.

We are all going to judged out of what is written in the book. So then wouldn't what is written in the book apply to us ALL (though it has not yet been given for all to 'understand... for it has not yet been 'opened' to all, as only Christ can open the book)?


Chrissie
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2006, 07:34:51 PM »

Hi Chrissie, what was our Lord saying to his apostles in regard to the parables, is it written that ALL would understand and be converted? Are the apostles the "firsrfruits" so to speak, of the chosen, the elect? Do you believe that the (unbelieving) world and the churches have His will and the wisdom of His Word in their hearts? Do they have understanding?

Chrissie, do you believe all of humanity is in the 1st resurrection? If not then who is being spoken to? This is written for those who "overcome," the elect;

1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore, I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

What is the glory and high calling?

Coincindently earlier today I posted this in this thread;

From Lake of Fire Part 12;

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you believe all will have the same reward?

Then who is converted in the Lake of Fire?

The entire bible is a parable.

Who is to understand?

They? Or the chosen?

Luk 8:10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

I hope this clears up my position and thoughts on this,

Joe


P.S. Chrissie, didn't you read the part where I stated the whole world, unbelievers and the church (called) had benefitted from His Word? But only the elect, chosen understood? :D
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chrissiela

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2006, 12:59:13 AM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Hi Chrissie, what was our Lord saying to his apostles in regard to the parables, is it written that ALL would understand and be converted? Are the apostles the "firsrfruits" so to speak, of the chosen, the elect? Do you believe that the (unbelieving) world and the churches have His will and the wisdom of His Word in their hearts? Do they have understanding?

Chrissie, do you believe all of humanity is in the 1st resurrection? If not then who is being spoken to? This is written for those who "overcome," the elect;

1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore, I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

What is the glory and high calling?

Coincindently earlier today I posted this in this thread;

From Lake of Fire Part 12;

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you believe all will have the same reward?

Then who is converted in the Lake of Fire?

The entire bible is a parable.

Who is to understand?

They? Or the chosen?

Luk 8:10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

I hope this clears up my position and thoughts on this,

Joe


P.S. Chrissie, didn't you read the part where I stated the whole world, unbelievers and the church (called) had benefitted from His Word? But only the elect, chosen understood? :D


I'm sorry. Please forgive me for asking an obviously stupid question.  :D

Chrissie

PS. Yes, I DID read the posts (all of them, coincidentally) and my question was not about who can 'hear' the words.

Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Have a blessed evening,
Chrissie
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Programmer

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2006, 09:12:19 PM »

Let's see what the word of God says...

(Rev 19:20)  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

(Rev 20:10)  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

(Rev 20:14)  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(Rev 20:15)  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I would have to take this as a literal place...I can't 'spiritualize' this into a body of Christians being a combined body of people who will be the judges in the end. This is THE final judgement.
Lyndon.
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gmik

  • Guest
Help: those in LOF
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2006, 05:28:06 PM »

Joe, could you explain Rev. 20:10- in regard to the false prophet being in there tormented forever if the LOF is safe and secure with us??

Also, where in the timeline or LOF do the stripes come in??
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love_magnified

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2006, 06:01:55 PM »

You can't "spiritualize" Revelation. It is already spiritual. Either we look from flesh eyes, or spiritual eyes. Either way, the book of Revelation is a book of signs and symbols. The Lake of Fire is not a place, it is a spiritual process. If the Lake of Fire is a literal place, then why is it not literal fire? And if it is literal fire, then why isn't the sword coming out of Christ's mouth a literal sword? Why is the Lamb not a literal lamb? Why is the dragon not a literal dragon? Are christ's feet literaly bronze? Is the water of life made of H2O? Is a spiritual interpretation of these symbols a matter of "spiritualizing" scripture? I am beginning to really hate that term.

Jehovah is God. Is the word "godly" a bad word? God is spirit. So why is "spiritual" or "spiritualize" such a bad word in Christianity as though to apply the spiritual words from a spiritual king, to the word of God makes it less real? Bleh...
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2006, 06:25:00 PM »

Quote from: Programmer
Let's see what the word of God says...

(Rev 19:20)  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

(Rev 20:10)  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

(Rev 20:14)  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(Rev 20:15)  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I would have to take this as a literal place...I can't 'spiritualize' this into a body of Christians being a combined body of people who will be the judges in the end. This is THE final judgement.
Lyndon.


Hello Lyndon,

Have you read anything on this site? This might be a good place to start,  disagreeing is fine as long as you provide a scriptural basis.

 http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

Thanks,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Help: those in LOF
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2006, 06:33:04 PM »

Quote from: gmik
Joe, could you explain Rev. 20:10- in regard to the false prophet being in there tormented forever if the LOF is safe and secure with us??

Also, where in the timeline or LOF do the stripes come in??


Hi Gena,

All carnality is spiritually burned away in the Lake, this is the end of the age, the forever (aonios) is not properly translated from the Greek.

For more;

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

Take care,

joe
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mercie

  • Guest
Re: Help: those in LOF
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2006, 07:05:07 PM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Quote from: gmik
Joe, could you explain Rev. 20:10- in regard to the false prophet being in there tormented forever if the LOF is safe and secure with us??

Also, where in the timeline or LOF do the stripes come in??


Hi Gena,

All carnality is spiritually burned away in the Lake, this is the end of the age, the forever (aonios) is not properly translated from the Greek.

For more;

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

Take care,

joe


Joe when you speak of all carnality.

Just what is this?
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gmik

  • Guest
help
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2006, 08:01:42 PM »

Whew!! Thanks Joe for the Link.  It is good to review.  I think I need to start over and reread it all.  Yes it did help answer my question.

Hope you stayed dry!
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hillsbororiver

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Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 08:02:26 PM »

Hi Mercie,

It is the way we think, our heart, and the manifestations of that thought process, the things we do and have done without His Spirit in us, the unconverted man.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I hope that helps,

Joe
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mercie

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Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2006, 06:39:43 AM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Hi Mercie,

It is the way we think, our heart, and the manifestations of that thought process, the things we do and have done without His Spirit in us, the unconverted man.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I hope that helps,

Joe


Amen Joe.
 
 
 
Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity( hatred) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
 
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Jer 21:8 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.


Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.



 Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
 

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.



1Jo 3:14 We know[/u] that we have passed from death unto life,[/b] because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
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aktikt

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Re: Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2006, 07:25:31 PM »

I find it interesting that Paul "explains" what the carnal mind is in parable form.  He doesn't really explain what it is just the results.  For example,

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity( hatred) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

There might be some other place in the Scriptures where carnality is spelled out, but I hadn't found any.  It is my belief that Paul doesn't explain this intentionally so that the mystery of lawlessness (2Thes 2:7 ) remains a mystery to the called.  It is my understanding that the carnal mind is the mind acting as though there is freewill: It's the beast!   
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Shakespeare-There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Beloved

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Re: Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2006, 01:36:05 AM »

Aktikt
I really liked your referenced to Paul and the similie/parable of carnality .  The carnal mind certainly is the beast, It is amazing how locked up we are into ourselves and can’t see it.

This topic started about  fate of the masses in the sea. The called have been introduced to Christ but the masses are totally clueless

In a day of Illusion
And utter confusion
Upon a delusion
We base our Conclusion     (author unknown)

The whole world is in a fog and thinks they are in charge of their destiny.

(2Co 10:3 KJVR) 
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:


The carnal mind is like Its CPU functions through brain our computer made of meat, is hard wired to the receptors that sense the outer world. It organizes information into concepts and feeling. In so doing it comes to believe that it itself is making decisions and controlling its own existence. (This might not be the best metaphor). But it still strikes me as amazing.

When you are born again and your spirit is quickened you clearly see that your Creator is The One who really is in charge. While in this body we must then continually fight the illusions that are imposed while we live. 

Those Few on Meat have to chew and chew and learn to exercise their faith. As we mature we should become less and less interested in the worldly things. The chosen are in themselves nothing; they are examples of His mercy and His Love and serve His purpose.

Those of the earth the Many called who are still on Formula ( I think some have become milk intolerant at least by the way they act when they hear the Word ) they are growth stunted. Some have been so compromised they almost border in their stage of development with those in the sea,


Those in the sea are more like the mentally challenged. You gotta just love them despite themselves. After all God still loves them and plans to rope these doggies in too.


(Gal 5:16 KJVR)  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 

These are words of warning to the chosen: 

Therefore the more worldly you are the more the LOF will be needed to test the steel and purify of you spirit.
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rocky

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Re: Help re: those in LOF
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2006, 02:14:29 PM »

Rocky, yes the resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 pertains to those in the 1st resurrection, as you will read in Lake of Fire Part 12;

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!

Hi Joe, been thinking on this still, that we along with Christ are the LOF, to judge the remaining world.  And judgment is to destroy the flesh.  So we are to judge and assist Christ in the destruction of the flesh.  But, this seems weird to me, as we are told the judgment to destroy flesh is through satan.  Can u help me out here a little. 

1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.  \


thanks. 
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