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[24 Grams]

Hi all,

"13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

 15 And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Jos. 5:13-15

This is commonly believed to be the angel Michael. In other places in the Bible angels do not accept worship from humans (e.g. Rev. 22:9) even though humans are "lower" than the angels...(Heb 2:7)

[mharrell08]

24Grams,

Michael means 'who is like God' in the ancient Hebrew [H4317] and the ancient Greek [G3413], thought nowhere in the book of Joshua is that distinction made, as far as use of that name.

If you continue to chapter 6, here is what the scriptures state:

Joshua 6:1-3  Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in. And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

This picks up right where you left off from the end of Chapter 5. Similar to what we read of Abraham's account with the Lord before Sodom & Gemorrah was struck down.

Gen 18:1-3  And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Basically, I don't believe these instances represent people worshiping messengers (angels), but worshiping Who the message came from. These messengers came in place of God and that is who Abraham, Joshua, and others bow down and worship to...God not the messenger.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Marky Mark]

Basically, I don't believe these instances represent people worshiping messengers (angels), but worshiping Who the message came from. These messengers came in place of God and that is who Abraham, Joshua, and others bow down and worship to...God not the messenger.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Thanks Marques.

As would any dignitary of a King[fleshy or Spiritual] who would be coming in the place of said King,be it our God the King or of an earthly king.To show worship is a sign of honor, gratitude, and respect.


7812. shachah (shaw-khaw') 
A primitive root; to depress, i.e. Prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God) -- bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.



Peace...Mark



 

[24 Grams]

Hi all,

24Grams,
...These messengers came in place of God and that is who Abraham, Joshua, and others bow down and worship to...God not the messenger.

That's my understanding also...Sorry. I didn't mean to say I thought the angel was being worshipped or anything, I just wanted some thoughts thats all...

Why wasn't this the case in Rev. 22:9? Or in that case was John actually worshipping the messenger?

[mharrell08]

Why wasn't this the case in Rev. 22:9? Or in that case was John actually worshipping the messenger?

Rev 22:8-9  I John am he who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me; but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." [RSV]

Yes, John states that he 'fell down to worship' [Gk. pay homage; give reverence] but the messenger/angel informs him, with true humility, that he is also a fellow servant, as John...and tells John to worship/pay homage/give reverence to God. The angel merely informs John to give all glory to God, even the act of 'bowing down'.

John bowed down as an act of humility similar to Abraham, Joshua, and others when in the presence of angels/messengers...did John make a practice of worshiping angels, as some Christendom denominations do? I doubt it.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[bluzman]

Marques
 Does the name Michael actually mean or represent Christ?
Bluzman

[aqrinc]

Hi Bluzman,

Below is the Strongs definition of The Name Michael; second i pulled out The Scriptures that explain (witness) who Michael is. See if you can get the answer from These Scriptures. I pulled Daniel 11: 1 four times to show different translations of that one verse. Only because the one time His Name is used in these four translations, the verse appears to be translated incorrectly.

Michael

H4317
מיכאל
mîykâ'êl
me-kaw-ale'
From H4310 and (the prefixed derivation from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: - Michael.

H410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity): - God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”



Dan 10:13 (MKJV)
But the ruler of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days. But lo, Michael, one of the chief rulers, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:21 (MKJV)
But I will show you that which is written in the Scripture of Truth. And there is none who holds strongly with me in these things, but Michael your ruler.

Dan 11:1 (GW)
During Darius the Mede's first year as king, I strengthened and defended Michael."

Michael in brackets below are my addition for clarity.

Dan 11:1  (GNB)
He (Michael) is responsible for helping and defending me.

Dan 11:1  (MKJV)
And I, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I was standing for a supporter and for a fortress for him. (Michael)

Dan 11:1-2 (YLT)
1  And I, in the first year of Darius the Mede, my standing is for a strengthener, and for a stronghold to him; (Michael)
2  and, now, truth I declare to thee, Lo, yet three kings are standing for Persia, and the fourth doth become far richer than all, and according to his strength by his riches he stirreth up the whole, with the kingdom of Javan.

Dan 12:1  (MKJV)
And at that time Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation; until that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Jud 1:9  (MKJV)
But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses, he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, Let the Lord rebuke you!

Rev 12: 7-8 (MKJV)
7  And there was war in Heaven. Michael and his angels warring against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels warred,
8  but did not prevail. Nor was place found for them in Heaven any more.

george.

[mharrell08]

Marques
 Does the name Michael actually mean or represent Christ?
Bluzman

Thank you for the scriptures, George.

Michael means 'who is like God'...sometimes it is simply one's first name [as throughout the book of 1 Chronicles], but other times, it represents who it is.

But no, the name itself does not mean 'Christ' or 'Messiah', neither did any of the apostles or disciples refer to Jesus as 'Michael'. I know Ray has implied in an email that 'Michael, the archangel' could be or actually is Jesus, but the book of Hebrews really goes out of the way to make the distinction between Jesus and the angels.

Heb 1:1-8  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Though Jesus is referred to as a witness/messenger in various scriptures, He is also first and foremost the Son of God...that is the big thing which separates Him from the angels, as Hebrews testifies to. But like I said, sometimes Michael can 'represent' who it is...like a symbol, which we know the book of Revelation is.

If it seems confusing, don't worry about it...these should not be the trivial things that make or break one's faith...God will reveal all in due time. 



Hope this helps,

Marques

[bluzman]

Thank you George and Marques. This has been nagging at me for some time now.
That idea may have come from one of Ray's replies, I just can't recall, but I believe I have
been carrying that error longer than my introduction to Bible truths. Feel a lot better now.
Very good.   Ches