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[daywalker]

Hello All, 

Something that just struck me today, as I am reading the book of Jeremiah, I thought I'd share my thinking

a. so that if I'm wrong, then I'm sure someone here will correct me, and

b. if what I'm noticing is true, then I'm certain there's a bigger lesson here, so

c. I thought it may be an interesting and possibly enlightening topic.


What I believe to have picked up on is that, in the Old Testament, we read of several occasions where God punished a people for their wickedness, but the only nation that He ever punished for 'serving false gods' was Israel. God warned Israel over and over again that should they serve the gods of the heathen nations, then He would severely punish them; yet He never gives any Gentile nation this warning.

- The Great Flood was a result of the wickedness of humanity in that land, but nothing about them serving false gods. Not that they didn't, but God didn't list this as one of their crimes.

- Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their evil and gross sins, but nothing about them serving false gods. Again, I'm sure they served false gods, but unless I'm mistaken, God doesn't list this as one of their crimes.

- And we all know that Egypt is alive and well today. Israel was taken into captivity due to the Judgment of God for their serving the Egyptian-originated gods, yet God never punished Egypt for serving these gods.


I believe I am on to something here, again assuming that my observations are correct. If so, I believe this may be a very huge enlightenment as to how God will judge the Church versus how God will judge the rest of the world. Surely, the Apostle Peter gave us this stern warning:

II Peter 2:20 For if, while fleeing from the defilements of the world by the recognition of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet, being again involved in these, they are being discomfited, their last state has become WORSE than the first."
21 For it were BETTER for them NOT to have recognized the way of righteousness, than, recognizing it, to go back to what was behind, from the holy precept given over to them."


Well, just wanted to gather some thoughts from the ecclesia, see if I'm on the right track. Peace, Out

Daywalker 

[Ninny]

Here is a thought on that..my train of thought doesn't always carry a lot of freight, but nonetheless I will give it!! 
In all the instances these are God's people who are being judged...not the heathen..God's people are judged because He came them special revelations of Himself..and when they turned to other gods it was an insult to  the God of Israel, their God! He TOLD them NOT to do it! He never commanded the heathen...God's plan?? Remember we are told that "judgment begins at the house of God" all judgments, throughout history? maybe...My thoughts...
Kathy

[daywalker]

Here is a thought on that..my train of thought doesn't always carry a lot of freight, but nonetheless I will give it!! 
In all the instances these are God's people who are being judged...not the heathen..God's people are judged because He came them special revelations of Himself..and when they turned to other gods it was an insult to  the God of Israel, their God! He TOLD them NOT to do it! He never commanded the heathen...God's plan?? Remember we are told that "judgment begins at the house of God" all judgments, throughout history? maybe...My thoughts...
Kathy

Thanks for your thoughts Kathy. 

You make some great points. Though I believe the Flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah were Judgments of God on people who weren't 'His People'. But at the same time, I believe there are many times in this life, where God will use judgments on people who aren't 'His People'. I'm sure many tragedies that happen in this world are God's judgments, even though they may be against a non-believer or even a non-believing nation. But at the same time, there are obviously certain judgments that God uses only on His people--especially against those who call themselves believers, yet at the same time, put other 'gods' before them. As you stated, He revealed marvelous secrets to them [Israel, Christendom, and US] and so in return we are to honor Him and obey His Commandments, or else receive a greater judgment than those who haven't been blessed with the 'gospel' and the "secrets of the kingdom of the heavens".

Thanks again... Daywalker 

[mharrell08]

Hello Daywalker,

To worship a false god is more than just to worship a pagan statue...it's when anything is placed first and foremost in your life besides God Himself. Whatever that thing is, it is now YOUR GOD as it is number one in your life, and it is a false god, in itself. We know what false god or belief that Sodom and Gemorrah put first and we know that all manner of wickedness was in the land before the flood.

Remember, the law is spiritual [Rom 7:14]...and God must be worshiped in spirit & truth [John 4:24]...and that includes 'Do not worship any false gods'.

The church is as blind as the world is to the true gospel...they do not have a view of righteousness as the god of this world has blinded them [2 Cor 4:4]. Those that KNOW the truth but yet still sin willingly [without conscience], it would have been better had they not known the truth. This is what the Lord is speaking of concerning 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit' [Matt 12:31].

God has concluded them ALL [Israel & Gentiles] in unbelief and we ALL [humanity] are guilty of ALL [transgression of the law, which is spiritual].

Rom 11:30-32  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 1:28-32, 2:1-3

v28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

v29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

v30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

v31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

v32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

v1  Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.

v2  But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

v3  And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?


Hope this helps,

Marques

[tinknocker]

Daywalker

Why would God discipline Israel and not other nations?

Proverbs 13:24
He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14
Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Proverbs 29:15
 The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes; 48  but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.

I will let God's word speak for itself.

Blessings
Tom

[daywalker]

Daywalker

Why would God discipline Israel and not other nations?

Proverbs 13:24
He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14
Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Proverbs 29:15
 The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes; 48  but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.

I will let God's word speak for itself.

Blessings
Tom

Hello Tom,

Thanks for your comments & Scriptures. I never said that God didn't discipline other nations, I said that He never [to my knowledge] listed 'serving other gods' as one of their crimes; only Israel did He punish for this act...

However, Marques, you make some great points. Yes, though God didn't specifically list 'serving other/false gods' as one of the crimes of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the people of the flood; clearly their wicked acts and and lustful ways were indeed their 'false gods'. So, it does seem that God did punish them for 'serving false gods' as in their lusts for adultery amid many other crimes.

I guess I was so focused on how God never specifically 'lists' serving false gods as their crimes; but it's clear that God did punish them doing so. Thanks for reminding me that a 'god' can be something other than a physical statue. 


Peace, Out

Daywalker 

[markn902]

I really enjoyed this discussion 

[larissa4676]

I enjoyed this discussion as well.

[darren]

I have a question somewhat related to this subject. When one is in a church I will not name the religion, but they have lots of statues of Jesus, Mary and some saints. They often look at these statutes and pray to them. Is this considered idol worship or praying to a false god? maby both. I personally think it is. But I a would like to know what y'all think.

                                       Darren

[daywalker]

I have a question somewhat related to this subject. When one is in a church I will not name the religion, but they have lots of statues of Jesus, Mary and some saints. They often look at these statutes and pray to them. Is this considered idol worship or praying to a false god? maby both. I personally think it is. But I a would like to know what y'all think.

                                       Darren

I would definitely agree that it is. This is exactly what the Hebrews did while awaiting Moses to descend from Mt. Sinai--they made a golden calf to represent Yahweh. God forbids us not only from worshiping false idols, but also for making idols to represent Himself. Even bowing down to a 'cross' is idol-worshiping I believe. There's no need for idols or graven images or pictures or anything physical. We must worship God "in Spirit and Truth".

Daywalker. 

[ez2u]

well this is something i am wondering too  especially since i have been in a Catholic environment for the pass 2 weeks.  I didn't partake of their service but i did go and stand up when everyone stood up.  Nor did i bow down to their alter or take communion.  I didn't want to be involved in their sacraments.

[daywalker]

well this is something i am wondering too  especially since i have been in a Catholic environment for the pass 2 weeks.  I didn't partake of their service but i did go and stand up when everyone stood up.  Nor did i bow down to their alter or take communion.  I didn't want to be involved in their sacraments.

I've only been inside a Catholic church once [well, technically twice, but the first was for about 5 minutes...] but it was just for a friend's wedding, not an actual service. But even that was strange enough me. The priest did have communion for those who wished to participate and I recall seeing all the kids running up to be first in line to receive their wafer and grape juice... [they must've been starving.. it was a long ceremony... I even debated on taking some myself...] 

Well this was a few years ago, so I had not yet found BT, and was still going [off and on] to my mother's Baptist church. I recall in the Catholic church so many statutes, as Darren before mentioned. I remember it actually made me feel uncomfortable, it was very eerie inside there; I felt like there were spirits all around me staring at me... extremely odd!! 


Anyways, I'm not really going anywhere with this, just wanted to share...

Daywalker 

[MePogo]

Here is a thought on that..my train of thought doesn't always carry a lot of freight, but nonetheless I will give it!! 
In all the instances these are God's people who are being judged...not the heathen..God's people are judged because He came them special revelations of Himself..and when they turned to other gods it was an insult to  the God of Israel, their God! He TOLD them NOT to do it! He never commanded the heathen...God's plan?? Remember we are told that "judgment begins at the house of God" all judgments, throughout history? maybe...My thoughts...
Kathy

Excellent thoughts.  Maybe to those who are given the most, more is expected.  Sort of like the blessing of my "falling" onto Ray's site here and the wealth of information.  I figured I was obliged to change the world by delivering the good new to everyone around me.  Wow, that sure made enemies of friends.

Hugs and blessings,
Pogo