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Author Topic: sins forgiven and forgotten  (Read 8502 times)

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bbj

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sins forgiven and forgotten
« on: August 13, 2009, 10:18:57 AM »

Hi, am new to all this and haven't read a lot of Ray's teachings, but was challenged today on whether God actually forgets our sins once we have repented of them - does he literally forgive and forget ? or being God, does he actually remember them but in his love and mercy love us regardless ?  All I could rememeber was a child's song that has the words, 'when Jesus forgives he forgets what I've done...'  Is this biblically acurate ?  Does Ray have any teaching on this ?
Blessings, BBJ   :) 
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 11:46:11 AM »


Hi BBJ

Welcome to the forum  :)
I know when you first start out trying to learn all the basics of the truth here it can seem daunting, but take your time and keep reading, it will begin to all come together for you.

I have found an excerpt from the transcript on Repentance which should help with your question. Of course there is much more in the transcript, you really should go to the link and just read the whole thing.
 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.msg27923.html#msg27923 ---

If you read my series on the Lake of Fire, you know I talk about the “man of sin” who sits on the throne claiming that he is god.  That’s in you!  That throne is in you.  That man of perdition is you.  And he sits in there claiming to be god.  And you can’t serve two masters.  Before Jesus Christ can sit on the throne of your heart, the man of perdition has got to get out!  And of course, the presence of the Lord is what drives out the man of perdition.  The presence of God coming into your life will drive out this beast (the carnal mind).  And then you’ll begin to understand things that you never understood before. 

Who knows what the first word was that Jesus Christ said in his ministry?  According to Matthew it was, “Repent.”  So if that’s the first word out of our Savior’s mouth, maybe we ought to look at it a little bit…

Repent means to turn around, to go the other way.  Whatever you are doing that’s wrong and sinful and evil and carnal and worldly and everything else, you turn around, you “repent” and you go the other direction.  The scriptures mention a couple of words:

Matthew 18:3 talks about being converted
Matthew 19:28 talks about being regenerated
1Peter 1:3 talks about being born again
John 3:3 talks about being born again

What are all those things?  They’re all one and the same, there’s no difference.  Being begotten anew, being born again, being regenerated, being converted…they are all the same.  And this is what we all want to do, so that we can take on more knowledge and live more Godly, and reach this goal.  We all sin.  Sin has to go through three things:  cleansing, repentance, forgiveness.  Does anybody know the order of these things?

This is the order of what happens to sin:

1.   Forgiveness
2.   Repentance
3.   Cleansing

(God does not cleanse anybody of sins they haven’t repented of.)

Forgiveness comes first and isn’t that interesting.  Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world and why was he slain?  Why did Christ die?  The scriptures say Christ died for our sins.  That’s the simplest statement.  But there is a little bit more.  I want you to notice this:

I’m going to give you what happened BEFORE the Cross, AT the Cross and AFTER the Cross.

BEFORE the cross in Matthew 26 where Christ gave the symbols of the blood and the wine he says:

Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood that is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Remission just means forgiveness or pardon—your sins are remitted, forgiven, pardoned.  But this He told them at the Passover before he was crucified that If they partook of this symbol:  “This is the blood of the covenant that is shed for many for the remission of sins.”  Were the Apostles converted yet?  No, they weren’t even converted, but they are going to take these symbols, which show forgiveness!  That’s before the cross.

Now AT the cross.  Christ is hanging on the cross dying and He looks down to those who put Him up there and he says “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”.  Did they repent?  No.  Were they cleansed of their sins?  No.  But Jesus Christ forgave them.  He forgave them! 

Then AFTER the cross Jesus met with the disciples in Luke 24 and he said this:

Luk 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Now that doesn’t change the order because He said repentance and remission, we know that the sins are first remitted and then people repent and then they are cleansed.  So it was after the cross that even the apostles and the disciples really repented.  And we know that they repented because on the day of Pentecost (there were about 120 of them gathered together) and they all received the gift of the Holy Spirit, which was proof that they were repentant and converted to God. 

Then right after Pentecost, Peter got up and preached a powerful sermon and they got a little upset, and they were scared, and they said, “well, what should we do, alright you got us, we are guilty, what should we do?”

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter said, “Repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”  And of course, all this is done in Jesus’ name, because there is only one name in heaven by which we must be saved.

Acts 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Here is an email that might help too.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4490.0.html --

Dear Ray,

    It has been a few weeks since I wrote to you last. I very much appreciate your insights. I studying the bible recently, I discovered a passage which seems confusing and I was again hoping that perhaps you could shed some light on this for me. Thank you in advance for your assistance.
     
    After the ressurection of Christ, HE appears to his apostles and tells them to basically continue HIS message throughout the world. HE tell them "if you forgive mens sins, they are forgiven, if you hold them bound, they are bound."
     
    My question here centers around this quote. I thought forgiveness of sins is why Jesus died. If we are all saved after HIS death, why do the apostles need the power to forgive sins? Jesus already did this through HIS death. I don't understand this passage in light of your theory that everyone is already saved.
     
    thanks
    William
     

    Dear William:  I have never ever say that "everyone is already saved," but I have said many many times "NO ONE is already saved."  No one is actually and literally saved until the Spiritual resurrection of the Elect of God (I Cor. 15:-42-54).  God counts things that ARE NOT as thought they WERE (Rom. 4:17). And so, although not all individuals have as yet been forgiven of their sins, in God's mind the end of His plan to save all is already a fact. Jesus plainly says that if we do not forgive others of their sins, NEVER WILL GOD FORGIVE US (Matt. 6:14-15). But God knows that eventually (in the resurrection to Judgment), all will forgive others their sins and therefore God will also forgive them. Hope this helps your understanding.
    God be with you,
    Ray
----------------------------------------------------------

I hope this was a help to you.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Linny

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 12:06:45 PM »

Hi and welcome! Your question made me go into my esword and do a mini study.
The two translations I like the most don't use the word forget. Personally, I have a hard time thinking an all-knowing God could forget anything. Forgetting seems to be a human thing. But in these translations, it actually says He remembers no more. This is the word used for remember...

G3415
μνάομαι
mnaomai
mnah'-om-ahee
Middle voice of a derivative of G3306 or perhaps of the base of G3145 (through the idea of fixture in the mind or of mental grasp); to bear in mind, that is, recollect; by implication to reward or punish: - be mindful, remember, come (have) in remembrance. Compare G3403.


It looks to me like more of a choice to remember no more than an actual forgetting.

Hope you enjoy your time here. Be sure to read, read, read though so you can understand just what the heck we are talking about here! ;)

Blessings, Lin
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Ninny

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 12:17:17 PM »

Hey Lin!
Yeah, that is the way it seems to me..when God chooses to do something...it's DONE!! :D
Kathy ;)
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Akira329

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 02:42:39 PM »

Hi, am new to all this and haven't read a lot of Ray's teachings, but was challenged today on whether God actually forgets our sins once we have repented of them - does he literally forgive and forget ? or being God, does he actually remember them but in his love and mercy love us regardless ?  All I could rememeber was a child's song that has the words, 'when Jesus forgives he forgets what I've done...'  Is this biblically acurate ?  Does Ray have any teaching on this ?
Blessings, BBJ   :) 

These verses may help BBJ!
Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3  But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Antaiwan

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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

daywalker

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 04:20:26 PM »

Hi, am new to all this and haven't read a lot of Ray's teachings, but was challenged today on whether God actually forgets our sins once we have repented of them - does he literally forgive and forget ? or being God, does he actually remember them but in his love and mercy love us regardless ?  All I could rememeber was a child's song that has the words, 'when Jesus forgives he forgets what I've done...'  Is this biblically acurate ?  Does Ray have any teaching on this ?
Blessings, BBJ   :) 


God never "forgets" anything. He just won't beat you over the head about it after you've repented:D ;) ;D

Welcome to BT!!!


Daywalker  8)
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aqrinc

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 04:36:35 PM »


Hi bbj,

Ditto on all the answers so far, welcome to the forum. Please do read the Repentance paper Kat suggested; a few times to get a whole bunch of great answers.

george. :)

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meee

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 05:05:02 PM »

 Welcome bbj,   

It seems to me that, even humans really don't forget. When it comes to forgetting a wrong done us,etc.  We can choose however to remember no more ,as Linny said God does.
hugs,meee
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bbj

  • Guest
Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 08:08:19 AM »

Thanks to all of you, both for the welcome and for your insight!  :D
Looks like I have some reading to do... looking forward to it!  Thanks also for the link Kat.
Blessings, bbj
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cjwood

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Re: sins forgiven and forgotten
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 06:44:41 PM »

welcome bbj to the best forum on the internet. there is so much to read and listen to that you could literally spend a lifetime studying it all. kat, thanks for posting the repentance link. i have read that particular study numerous times, but each time i come away with a new insight. our Heavenly Father has most assuredly used ray smith in His Perfect Plan and Purpose in making us into His Image.

claudia
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