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Please explain biblical contradiction
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: JMsubordinate on August 29, 2009, 08:46:37 AM ---As a reborn Christian it is lovely to read that All men will be saved as per the many scriptures pointed out in the teachings of Ray Smith. (So why be reborn if that be the case?)
I do not know what to believe as the bible contradicts itself times without number.
1. The bit about having to be reborn or you will not be saved... please tell where are the people who died without rebirth.
2. There clearly IS a HELL as even Jesus Himself says.... and the gates of HELL shall not prevail against it.
3. When hanging on the cross Jesus said to the thieve on his side that he will be in PARADISE with HIM TODAY... if the dead are dead, where than is paradise... is this different from heaven?
4. Is the Catholic Purgatory the right teaching? It is similar to Rays vision of the "Fire" teaching
There are many scriptures like this...so how can I believe the elaborate teachings of NO HELL by Ray... please explain these contradictions.
Thank you
I earnestly seek the truth.
Hans
--- End quote ---
1. Where does it state that if you are not reborn you will not be saved?
- What makes you think you are reborn in this life?
a. No one is reborn in this life, rather we are being concieved by the Father and we have an earnest down payment in the form of His spirit. We have not yet attained anything but rather are striving to be born again.
- Those born again, of God's spirit, are invisible and powerful like the wind. How many christians do you know that are invisible and powerful like the wind?
- Now my final point, i'm not 100% sure so someone if i am off, please correct me, but to my understand; Those who inherit the kingdom of heaven are those who have been born again and saved, which does not occur in this life but is rather reserved for God's chosen elect, who will ultimately help bring all of humanity into God's family by judging the angels and the world.
2. There is no hell. Clearly there isn't. Perhaps in your bible translation but Jesus spoke no such thing of a 21st century hell. Please don't come here and try and teach the rest of us. You are seriously mistaken. Where would you like to start? If the scriptures aren't enough, maybe we should dig at the translation of the word which you know as 'hell?' How can you sit there and say that you are overjoyed at the salvation of all and than turn around and say there exists 'clearly' a hell?
-Jesus said the gates of 'HADES' [AKA THE GRAVE/DEATH] shall not prevail against Him or His kingdom. Why? Well we are told why in revalation.
- Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
a. Now lets stop and think for a minute here. Lets say you're right. Hell is a place of fire and torture. Okay. Do you really believe that HELL was thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE? What is the lake of fire than? Is the lake of fire also hell? Do you really think that makes any sence? That God threw hell into itself, into hell? Oh He sure showed hell!
- No what God did was, now follow me closely, throw DEATH AND THE GRAVE [AKA HADES/HELL] into the LAKE OF FIRE. Why? Well, we are told why!
-1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
- There you have it! The reason that death and grave are thrown into the lake of fire is because the last enemy of God to be destroyed is death! And wait, lets take this even further. What is the lake of fire?
- Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
- Since the lake of fire is actually the second DEATH and we are told that DEATH is the LAST ENEMY TO BE ABOLISHED, DESTROYED, FINISHED than by this reasoning, EVEN THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL COME TO AN END! PRAISE GOD!! :)
3. Yea well Jesus could have also, "Verily, this DAY, i say to YOU, you SHALL [FUTURE] be with me in paradise." Since the old manuscripts where not big on punctuation it was easy to see it as Jesus saying something completely different. However Jesus makes it clear that He will be, SHALL , which means in the future, be with Him in paradise. Put the comma in the right place, and you see a whole different meaning to the phrase. Which makes complete sense and is in line with the scriptures. No contradiction.
4. No purgatory teaching is complete garbage.
I hope this helps you. The above was said only to aid you and is not ment to be taken offensively.
God bless,
Alex
aqrinc:
Hi Hans,
So much to read or listen to, Ray has covered all your questions in multiple papers. Read the excerpt for a quick definition on being born again (begotten anew.)
WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007
Excerpt from: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34384.html#msg34384
You got to be careful, when Christ said, “except you be born again” we are not born again. But we are begotten anew, from on high. Some of these words are left out of the KJ. It should be “we are begotten anew, from on high.” You are begotten once in the flesh from our parents. Now we are begotten anew, a new begettal from on high. And when we are born into the kingdom of God, then we are made where our flesh and blood is turned into spiritual bodies. We will be like God, brother of Christ, like God. So which of the of the sons did He ever say that? Well He said that to His Son, but He never said it to the angels.
Heb 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things(speaking of Jesus), and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
v. 11 For both He that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
There it is! Did He ever do this with the angels, in His original creation? Back there between the heaven and the earth, when they shouted for joy. When He put the earth in motion and started pushing it around the universe and they shouted for joy and sang? No. They were created beings. We are begotten. But remember we only have the earnest, the down payment.
Like a conception, there is not a baby until it’s born. Am I right doctor? You are a OBGYN? So Dr. Carol here knows all about what I’m talking about. When you are begotten, when there is a conception, there is no baby, yet. Not until they start to cry, then you cut the umbilical cord, now we got a human being, born.
So we will be born. There is a big difference between being purchased or being adopted and being born into royalty, born into the family of God.
george. :)
indianabob:
Hans,
Welcome to the Bible Truths forum.
Many members have responded to your questions and many more are waiting to help you in any way they can. Please stay with us and be patient with the work of studying, it will pay dividends for you in time.
Please accept that this is a difficult process and will be accomplished only with a growing trust in God's loving purpose for us all. So, please do study more as time allows and know that it may take a few months as it has for most of us.
We love all those whom God has called and sent to learn of Him and we will work patiently with you as long as it takes.
Warm regards to you, Indiana Bob
firefly77:
Hans,
Welcome to the forum. I can promise you after being here for the last 3 to 4 years and finally becoming a member, it is worth it!
In the beginning, it was a big shock to my system. My house of cards (Babylon's teaching) came crashing down. Trying to reformat my hard drive (my believe) and installing a new operating system (the truth) was very difficult at times. I am glad I stayed with it, because now it all makes complete sense to me. Be patient, read and study; you will begin to understand more and more. It doesn't happen instantaneously.
Blessings,
Angie
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