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Author Topic: Your Own Salvation  (Read 7689 times)

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TheRysta

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Your Own Salvation
« on: September 02, 2009, 04:03:26 PM »

Ray has said that the bible has said that God has said that we are said to need to find our own personal salvations.

Could I have some scripts please, it would really help my thinking with regards to the nature of self and the ego, ie. purposewise.

By the way, I'm pretty much not scared of hell anymore at all. I don't know for sure if I have, but I certainly feel that this is 'my salvation'. My life has improved so much since I realised fear could be tamed.

- Ryan
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Ninny

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 04:10:48 PM »

That is a very good start, my friend!! If you remember that perfect love casts out fear, that will be a great benefit to you for the rest of your life, Ryan...I'm not going to post scriptures now there are others who are much better and much quicker with it than I..You kick that beastly fear in the butt, boy and go for it!!  :D
Kathy ;)
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mharrell08

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 04:11:41 PM »

Ray has said that the bible has said that God has said that we are said to need to find our own personal salvations.


Where does Ray state 'we need to find our own personal salvations'?



Marques
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Marky Mark

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 04:55:59 PM »

Quote
thinking with regards to the nature of self and the ego, ie. purposewise.


ego;= Edging God Out  ::).  Its a worldly thang ;).


Mark
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daywalker

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 05:04:00 PM »


Hello Ryan,

I second Marques' question.

There is only One Who is responsible for our salvation and everyone's salvation.


Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior...

Isaiah 43:11  I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Psalms 68:20 Our God is a God of salvation; and to GOD, the Lord, belongs escape from death.

I Timothy 2:3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.



Here's a great email from Ray regarding Salvation:

http://bible-truths.com/email3.htm#salvation

What does salvation mean to you?  And how do you see your life after death?

[Ray Replies]

Thank you for your email and questions.

You don't really expect me to answer that question in one short email, do you?

Salvation means being "saved." There are lots of things we are saved from, not the least of which are SIN and DEATH. A life of sin is not good. A death without sin is also not good. But a LIFE, without SIN, now that's good.

We find Scripturally that we HAVE BEEN saved, are BEING saved, and SHALL BE saved. There is a PROCESS, however, at the point of accepting Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we BEGIN to EXPERIENCE salvation. However, in God's mind it is as "good and done".

Salvation is a REST (like the Sabbath foreshadowed) from the works and frustrations of the flesh and the carnal mind. God has TAKEN OVER! Through faith, we believe all that God has said and promised. We are thus SAVED by His GRACE through the channel of FAITH (which He imparts to each and every believer), and we then become the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

Therefore this no longer an condemnation toward those IN Christ. We are not yet perfect, but we are viewed as perfect by God because He now views us through HIS SON, Jesus Christ Who WAS PERFECT.

In SPIRIT we have Christ and we have the Father IN US and thus are ONE SPIRIT!  The flesh takes on a highly subordinate role. It is the temple of God's spirit, but the pulls of the flesh, and the lusts of the carnal mind are CRUCIFIED with Christ.

We are FREE! We are now part of the BODY of Christ. We ARE the SONS OF GOD (Rom. 15:16). The whole of creation is groaning and awaiting our full unveiling, "For the premonition of the creating is AWAITING THE UNVEILING OF THE SONS OF GOD" (Rom. 8:19).

Here is where we really get to what OUR salvation is all about. We, the BODY of Christ, who ARE the SONS OF GOD will be used to SAVE THE REST OF THE WORLD AND THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE!! "Or are  you not aware that the SAINTS shall judge the WORLD?... Are you not aware that we shall be JUDGING ANGELS..."

In the bigger picture OUR salvation is used to BRING salvation to the rest of God's creation! That sure beats sitting on a cloud playing rock-n-roll gospel music on a harp.

Hope that answers your question at least a little.

Sincerely in Christ's service,

Ray



Hope this helps.

Daywalker.  8)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 05:06:58 PM »

Is this close to what you were thinking?

Php 2:10-13  And so, in honor of the name of Jesus all beings in heaven, on earth, and in the world below will fall on their knees, and all will openly proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.  So then, dear friends, as you always obeyed me when I was with you, it is even more important that you obey me now while I am away from you. Keep on working with fear and trembling to complete your salvation, because God is always at work in you to make you willing and able to obey his own purpose.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ninny

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 05:11:19 PM »

Philippians 2:12 boys.  "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." maybe this is what he's talking about...

Thank you Dave!
Kathy :)
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9440geoff

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 05:26:44 PM »

Hi Ryan,

This is an email that Marques posted back in April for a similar question:


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,373.0.html):

Dear John and Blanca:
I get many questions such as yours. I presently have over 400 unanswered emails waiting on me. Unfortunately, I cannot even begin to explain the whole plan of God to you in an email, and then explain the process of conversion, overcoming, living a godly life, etc., etc., etc., in an email. It would take me days.
 
Understand this: It is GOD Who is directing your life, and He caused you to come to our site. There is a lot of information on our site. Unfortunately only a handful of people have ever read all the material on our site. If you will read all the material on our site, most of your questions will be answered.
 
No one showed me how to repent. No one showed me how to overcome. No one showed me how to conquer sin. God did it in me, for me. There was a time when I too felt helpless and didn't know what to do. I knew there was a God, but I didn't know how to really contact Him, and so basically I learned that it was He who contacted me--in HIS TIME.
 
I have people asking me to "Please explain the Bible to me, Ray."  Or: "Show me how to do God's perfect will so that I will be happy and have purpose in my life."
 
I can't really do these things. Here is what Paul instructs us:  "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence [Paul was now in prison in Rome, and would never see these Philippians again] , WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING."  Why?
 
"For [because] it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasre" (Phil. 2:12-12).
 
This sounds like a contradiction to most people. The reason that we "work out our own slavation with fear and trembling" is because it is ALL OF GOD.
We cannot look to our own devices or works--only God can and will save us. You MUST rely on God IN FAITH for all of these things in your life. God will CAUSE you to work all these things out in your life.  I will help as much as lies within me, but I cannot give you all the answers in an email, and I have too many email to write long essay type answers. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
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Kat

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 05:28:18 PM »

 

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Here is another email on this Scripture.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html -----

I get asked this question quite often. Actually the fact that God is in control of EVERYTHING is a very good reason itself to pray.  We are totally reliant upon God for EVERYTHING!  Think about it. If there were a human being that you had to rely upon for EVERYTHING, would you not stay VERY CLOSE to that person and ALWAYS be in CONSTANT contact with them?  Of course you would.

I KNOW that I have had prayers ANSWERED, ONLY BECAUSE I ASKED!  But you might say, "How can that be if God predetermined to do it ANYWAY?"  But you see, Kathy, He did not predetermine to do it "ANYWAY."  That is OUR ASSUMPTION that is not true. Listen:  God predetermined to do something for us only AFTER we asked for it!!  And yes, it is true, that God predetermined that we WOULD ASK FOR IT, as well.  We just can't out-think, or out-guess, or out-smart God no matter how hard we try.

Let me give you another piece of wisdom. We are told that we are to "Work out our OWN salvation" in the Scriptures.  How can we work out our own salvation if God has already determined that we will be saved and He is going to SAVE ALL?  Same answer as your question to prayer:  "Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling [WHY? Next verse]...For [or because] it is GOD which works in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12-13).

It is inspired of God that we pray and that we work. Just because it is God doing it, does not negate the fact that it will be done in us and through us. In time of real and desperate need, we will be brought to our knees before God whether it seems logical in the face of God's total sovereignty or not!

Hope this helps your understanding a little better.

Sincerely,

Ray

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Ninny

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 05:59:43 PM »

Thanks, Kat! Great as usual!! :D
I want to remind you guys that Ryan is young and in our immaturity sometimes we ask questions that may seem a no brainer to older people and people who have had a lot of education in the Bible. To younger folks like our young Ryan who does not have an extensive background in religious or spiritual training some of these questions may really be legitimate, so I would ask you to please be gentle and remember from whence we all came..WE all need to remember that God is a tender and compassionate Father who takes us all under His wings and protects us and loves us with an extreme love... Let your love shine out!!!  :D
Kathy ;) :-*
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mharrell08

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 10:37:36 PM »

Thanks, Kat! Great as usual!! :D
I want to remind you guys that Ryan is young and in our immaturity sometimes we ask questions that may seem a no brainer to older people and people who have had a lot of education in the Bible. To younger folks like our young Ryan who does not have an extensive background in religious or spiritual training some of these questions may really be legitimate, so I would ask you to please be gentle and remember from whence we all came..WE all need to remember that God is a tender and compassionate Father who takes us all under His wings and protects us and loves us with an extreme love... Let your love shine out!!!  :D
Kathy ;) :-*


Kathy,

Ryan made the following statement:

Ray has said that the bible has said that God has said that we are said to need to find our own personal salvations.

And he was simply asked where he read or heard Ray make this statement...the question has nothing to do with his level of maturity.

In his past posts, Ryan has been able to explain, in clear detail, worldly philosophies that have no spiritual edification (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10232.msg87415.html#msg87415)...I would think he could at least reference 1 direct statement from Ray.

But my main intent was this: A lot of times, a person's misunderstanding about the scriptures arise because of misinformation..for example, a person 'thinks' a scripture says one thing, they formulate all these unscriptural ideas & doctrines from that false belief, and then when they actually read the passages again & pay attention to the words, all the false ideas and misunderstandings go away.

If Ryan was simply allowed to answer, and had to seek out where he 'thought' Ray made a similar statement, he might have noticed that Ray said no such thing, though it might have 'sounded' similar. This could help Ryan to 'pay attention to all the words' in the future.

That was all...sometimes a question is just a question; other times it is a means to HELP someone better understand a situation. I knew Ryan was referring to Phil 2:12-13 but it was obvious that he had not paid attention to all the words in the scripture nor where Ray taught on it. I was only hoping Ryan would look back to those passages and Ray's teachings and pay attention, in detail, in order to answer for himself.

The forum is to help & edify one another in the truth...though we do it in different ways.


Thanks,

Marques
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Ninny

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 12:52:06 AM »

Marques,
Point taken, and understood!
Kathy ;)
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TheRysta

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 10:41:08 AM »

"In his past posts, Ryan has been able to explain, in clear detail, worldly philosophies that have no spiritual edification (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10232.msg87415.html#msg87415)...I would think he could at least reference 1 direct statement from Ray."

Attempting to identify the nature and origin of sin?

Oh yes, I'm sure that's a very 'worldly' philosophy.
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mharrell08

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 11:33:02 AM »

Attempting to identify the nature and origin of sin?

Oh yes, I'm sure that's a very 'worldly' philosophy.

1 Cor 2:9-14  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


When attempting to understand the spiritual with carnal ideas/thoughts then YES, it is wordly philosophy

Matt 15:8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matt 15:17-20  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?



Marques

P.S. Did you find the statement from Ray that you referenced in your first post of this thread?
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TheRysta

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 11:09:58 AM »

No, I didn't. But I also did not start this thread with a broken purpose, I know it was somewhere.

To put it bluntly, the idea I am trying to propose is that salvation is unique to the individual, and not a set phenomenon.
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aqrinc

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 11:43:54 AM »


Hi TheRysta,

Salvation is of course unique to each individual, if you are not saved; then you do not have salvation. Thus a moot point as far as uniqueness is concerned.

GOD And our Lord Jesus Christ Being The Author And Finisher of every created beings Salvation is Unique to The Authors in that sense Also. Thus The Scripture says:


Act 4:12 (MKJV)
And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Act 4:12 (CLV)
And there is no salvation in any other one, for neither is there any other name, given under heaven among men, in which we must be saved."

2Ti 3:15 (CLV)
and that from a babe you are acquainted with the sacred scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1Th 5:9 (CLV)
for God did not appoint us to indignation, but to the procuring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

george. :)

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mharrell08

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Re: Your Own Salvation
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 11:45:14 AM »

To put it bluntly, the idea I am trying to propose is that salvation is unique to the individual, and not a set phenomenon.

Eph 4:1-6

1  I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2  With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Cor 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Pet 4:1-2  Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

John 17:23  I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me
[NIV]

We are complete in Christ [Col 2:10]...I don't know if I would call it a 'set phenomenon'. A phenomenon refers to 'an unusual or abnormal thing' (not true in regards to salvation) or 'an event susceptible to scientific explanation or description' (also not true in regards to salvation) [definitions from Merrian-Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phenomenon]

All humanity must die to the flesh...all humanity must be baptized in Christ's death...all humanity must call upon the name of the Lord...etc. We all must overcome sin...these things are not unique in the overall sense though a person may suffer from a particular sin more so or less so than another individual.

Hope this helps,

Marques
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 11:53:43 AM by mharrell08 »
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