Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[shibboleth]

I was studying the word wrath and came across a troubling scripture. Maybe someone can help me see the light at the end of the tunnel as far as how to interpret this verse.

Psalm 76:10 Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee; the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

How does the wrath of man praise God? this word wrath comes from the Greek word Khaymaw and means anger, poison, hot displeasure, furious, heat. So how does wrath praise God?

[Sorin]

I was studying the word wrath and came across a troubling scripture. Maybe someone can help me see the light at the end of the tunnel as far as how to interpret this verse.

Psalm 76:10 Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee; the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

How does the wrath of man praise God? this word wrath comes from the Greek word Khaymaw and means anger, poison, hot displeasure, furious, heat. So how does wrath praise God?

Hi Debra,


I'm thinking when God will have His vengeance on those that are wicked. The wrath ( anger) of those (man) that were persecuted will Praise God for it. I don't see what else it could mean.

Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.







Take care,
Sorin

[Daniel]

Hope this can help you as well in addition to what Sorin has added. I see it in like manner.


Restrained Garmet...clothed !

Law verses Grace and Truth again

 
 - Psa 76:10 - Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: The residue of wrath shalt thou "gird upon thee".
American Standard Version 1901 Info  (check out the word restrain)


Yes..the law bringeth Wrath

Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts [as] an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man...

James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:

Prov 16:14 The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it (attone for it?)


The reserve.

Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance

Who has delivered us from so great a death, doth deliver and will yet deliver.

See the "no faith here"?

2Thes 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

On their part he is evil spoken of but on your part he is glorified, God repays them with tribulation who trouble you. Paul speaks of this. Gods repaying to the wicked and righteous is on the earth.


Peace

Daniel

[mercie]

Nice words Sorin.

 
 
The Law bringeth Wrath
 
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts [as] an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
 
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
 
Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man.
 
James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
 
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
 
Prov 16:14 The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it (attone for it?)
 
 
The reserve.
 
Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a
posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance

Act 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off [their] clothes, and threw dust into the air,

[mercie]

Hope this can help you as well in addition to what Sorin has added. I see it in like manner.


Restrained Garmet...clothed !

Law verses Grace and Truth again

 
 - Psa 76:10 - Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: The residue of wrath shalt thou "gird upon thee".
American Standard Version 1901 Info  (check out the word restrain)


Yes..the law bringeth Wrath

Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts [as] an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man...

James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:

Prov 16:14 The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it (attone for it?)


The reserve.

Gen 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance

Who has delivered us from so great a death, doth deliver and will yet deliver.

See the "no faith here"?

2Thes 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

On their part he is evil spoken of but on your part he is glorified, God repays them with tribulation who trouble you. Paul speaks of this. Gods repaying to the wicked and righteous is on the earth.


Peace

Daniel

Amen Daniel.    

[shibboleth]

I came to the same conclusion, but wondered if anyone else had a different conclusion.
I was thinking about how, before the Lord converted me, I used to hate God because He seemed so far away and didn't seem to care about me. I hated Him for the evil in the world that He didn't seem to care about. I hated Him because He created hell to burn His own creation in. I hated God because I was depressed and suicidal.

But, praise the Lord, about a year ago, God showed me His love, compassion, grace and mercy so now all that hate is turned over and is now love for God. But, I couldn't have loved Him if I hadn't gone through all the ugliness of His wrath.

[mercie]

I came to the same conclusion, but wondered if anyone else had a different conclusion.
I was thinking about how, before the Lord converted me, I used to hate God because He seemed so far away and didn't seem to care about me. I hated Him for the evil in the world that He didn't seem to care about. I hated Him because He created hell to burn His own creation in. I hated God because I was depressed and suicidal.

But, praise the Lord, about a year ago, God showed me His love, compassion, grace and mercy so now all that hate is turned over and is now love for God. But, I couldn't have loved Him if I hadn't gone through all the ugliness of His wrath.

Peace  be in your Heart Shibboleth

[Sorin]

I came to the same conclusion, but wondered if anyone else had a different conclusion.
I was thinking about how, before the Lord converted me, I used to hate God because He seemed so far away and didn't seem to care about me. I hated Him for the evil in the world that He didn't seem to care about. I hated Him because He created hell to burn His own creation in. I hated God because I was depressed and suicidal.

But, praise the Lord, about a year ago, God showed me His love, compassion, grace and mercy so now all that hate is turned over and is now love for God. But, I couldn't have loved Him if I hadn't gone through all the ugliness of His wrath.

Yes, Christendom sure paints an ugly picture of God. They have created ( amongst the god of the muslims) the most insanely evil monster they could think of, one that will (in their minds ) torture his own creation forever and they praise him for it. How sick is that? As Zander once said " I cringe when I hear the word Christian nowadays".
But bless your heart Debra for you seemed to always have a problem with the "hell" doctrine of Christendom. And for being so honest.

Take care,
Sorin

Nice words Sorin

Thanks!

[mercie]

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes

[bobf]

I was studying the word wrath and came across a troubling scripture. Maybe someone can help me see the light at the end of the tunnel as far as how to interpret this verse.

Psalm 76:10 Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee; the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

How does the wrath of man praise God? this word wrath comes from the Greek word Khaymaw and means anger, poison, hot displeasure, furious, heat. So how does wrath praise God?

I looked this up in the English Translation of the Septuagint and it makes  more sense.  My understanding is that the Septuagint was translated from the different Hebrew texts.  Not sure though.  Does anyone know?

Psalm 76:6 At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, the riders on horses slumbered. 7 Thou art terrible; and who shall withstand thee, because of thine anger? 8 Thou didst cause judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared, and was still, 9 when God arose to judgment, to save all the meek in heart. Pause.

10 For the inward thought of man shall give thanks to thee: and the memorial of his inward thought shall keep a feast to thee. 11 Vow, and pay your vows to the Lord our God; all that are round about him shall bring gifts, even to him that is terrible, 12 and that takes away the spirits of princes; to him that is terrible among the kings of the earth.

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

[bobf]

It appears that there are some arguments for the LXX to be considered MORE accurate than the existant Hebrew texts.

From Wikipedia.

"The sources of the many differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text have long been discussed by scholars. The most widely accepted view is that the Septuagint provides a reasonably accurate record of an early Semitic textual variant, now lost, that differs from the Masoretic text. Another view, favored by scholars, was that the differences are primarily due to intentional or accidental corruption of Masoretic text in Medieval times."

[Indagator]

Hey bobf!

I'm sort of on the same bead you're on.  I think though that I got on this from Shibb's saying something about greek in Strong's.  I read the Strong's defenition on e-sword thinking "greek", but I think that's just an english transliteration of hebrew.

That didn't worry me though, because I'm "trying the spirit" so much lately that I have to check everything.  So, I check both Hebrew and Greek using the Septuagint.

The verse in KJV is...

Psa 76:10  Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

in Rotherham's...

Psa 76:10 For the multitude of mankind shall give thanks unto thee, The remainder of the multitude, shall keep holy festival unto thee.

In YLT...

Psa 76:10  For the fierceness of man praiseth Thee, The remnant of fierceness Thou girdest on.


Obviousy there are big differences in the translations here.  I wonder though if these weren't pulled more from the hebrew, since it matches better.

I checked out the Septuagint and found that it more closely resembles the meaning in the Vulgate, and DRB.

Vulgate...

Psa 76:10  (75:11) quoniam cogitatio hominis confitebitur tibi et reliquiae cogitationis diem festum agent tibi  (if you're wondering, the different verse listing is because the Vulgate was supposedly translated directly from Septuagint)

DRB (translation from vulgate)...

Psa 76:10  (76:11) For the thought of man shall give praise to thee: and the remainders of the thought shall keep holiday to thee.

  Here is a site I used for help along with an Oxford Greek-English dictionary...

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRGRK17.htm

When reading the Septuagint in e-sword, that verse looks like this...

Psa 76:10  (75:11) ὅτι ἐνθύμιον ἀνθρώπου ἐξομολογήσεταί σοι, καὶ ἐγκατάλειμμα ἐνθυμίου ἑορτάσει σοι.

The italicized here is "wrath" in the KJV translation.  According to Strong's I could not find an exact match for " Epsilon Nu Theta Upsilon Mu Iota Omicron Nu.  "Omicron Nu" is a dipthong though so should read more like "oo" I think.  Then again I don't read Greek so what do I know?   .  But! the closest I could find to that was...

1760
   

enqumeomai
enthumeomai
en-thoo-meh'-om-ahee
   

from a compound of en - en 1722 and qumoV - thumos 2372; to be inspirited, i.e. ponder:--think.

En is "within" and Thumos...

2372
   

qumoV
thumos
thoo-mos'
   

from quw - thuo 2380; passion (as if breathing hard):--fierceness, indignation, wrath. Compare yuch - psuche 5590.

So, to be within wrath, fierceness, and/or indignation.  This would most likely fit the Strong's defenition even if going from hebrew to greek.

and...

1761
   

enqumhsiV
enthumesis
en-thoo'-may-sis
   

from enqumeomai - enthumeomai 1760; deliberation:--device, thought.

This defenition actually fits the Vulgate, and DRB versions more, and also sounds alot more like the Septuagint translation.

Just to throw this in, from chabad.org...

" For man's anger will thank You; it will prevent the residue of wrath."

JPS...

 Psa 76:10  (76:11) Surely the wrath of man shall praise Thee; the residue of wrath shalt Thou gird upon Thee.


Now, both versions of this make good sense really.  But then I step out of "human logic" and compare spiritual to spiritual as best I am allowed right now.  Keeping in mind that I've been at the point that Shibboleth has thus far allowed me to understand ( I deal with depression and anxiety issues, and have been at "that point"...shibb knows what I mean)

Psa 76:10  Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

Let's take a peek...

חמא    חמה
chêmâh  chêmâ'
khay-maw', khay-maw'
From H3179; heat; figuratively anger, poison (from its fever): - anger, bottles, hot displeasure, furious (-ly, -ry), heat, indignation, poison, rage, wrath (-ful). See H2529.

Well that sounds like the Lake of Fire O_o.  So the question is, is it the "Wrath of man" or Man's wrath, or God's wrath against man?  

I think a big question that needs to be asked is that which translation was pulled from what source.  It's blatantly obvious that none are completely correct...even Ray has said this himself.  I think though that there is a major discepency between what supposedly is the "original hebrew" and the Septuagint.  I used to think that the KJV was pretty much a direct translation from the vulgate, but now see that is incorrect.  The Vulgate seems to follow more the Septuagint, while KJV seems to be closer to the Hebrew.  Or, I could be thinking too much

Off to seek again![/b]