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A seemingly stupid question
9440geoff:
Hi Wonderment, welcome to the forum.
After such excellent replies there is nothing I can add except that this is the way that God, in His wisdom, has decided to reveal himself to us.
Pro 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
A phrase that springs to mind from a bible study course I did many years ago is: "History is His story." God is the Author and He has decided to write it this way. I find this helpful to remember when all manner of things happen that I can't understand.
Geoff
kenny:
Sin brings death. where was his sin
kenny
Kat:
Hi Kenny,
Not sure if that was a question or a statement, but here is a explanation for any that might need it.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. (KJV)
This translation in the KJV has confused many people into believing that Christ was actually made sin before He died on the cross. Ray has a whole Bible study showing that He was made a sin OFFERING. Here is an excerpt form the transcript 'Was Christ Made Sin?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html --------
Jesus Christ was not ‘the sin’ of the world offered on the cross, He died on the cross FOR our sins. Can you not understand simple words? An offering was a sacrifice back in Israel ‘for’ the sin. That’s why it was not called sin, it was called a SIN OFFERING.
Here is 2 Cor. 5:21 translated;
“For Him who knew no Sin, He made a Sin-offering on our behalf, that we might become God’s Righteousness in Him” (Emphatic Diaglott).
“For the One not knowing sin, He makes [Gk. Aorist - not past tense] to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God’s righteousness in Him” (Concordant N.T.).
This is the proper order too. It should not be “for He made Him sin,” the first phrase is “For Him who knew no Sin.”
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Now then do we have a second confirmation? Do we have a second confirmation that Christ was made sin? Is there another phrase ‘made sin’ anywhere in the entirety of the Bible? No there is not.
But Christ was made a sin offering, as the Concordant and the Diaglott and others tell us. Do we have a second confirmation of 2 Tim. 5:21, that Christ was made ‘a sin offering’? Since it cannot be “its OWN explanation” (2 Peter 1:21). As a matter of fact we do. You knew that didn’t you. In Isaiah 52 in my Bible there is this heading, it’s in italics so it’s not inspired. But that’s one reason I love this Nelson Bible of mine, because it gives you all of these headings, so you don’t have to look through pages to find it. The heading reads The Messiah’s Atonement, so the publishers of this Bible understand beginning in this verse these Scriptures are talking about who? The Messiah!
Isa 52:13 Behold, My servant shall deal prudently, He shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
v. 14 As many were astonished at Thee; His visage was so marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men:
v. 15 So shall He sprinkle many nations;
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report?
Yeah, who is going to believe this Scripture, of those who are following this dirty religion, who is going to believe it? I’ll tell you who will believe it, not one. Why? Because they are following a man and they have idols of the heart and they have no real interest in the Truths of God, but only those idols.
Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.
v. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a Man of sorrows (is this stuff talking about Jesus Christ? The New Testament tells us these Scriptures are speaking of Jesus Christ), and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
v. 4 Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows (it doesn‘t say anything about carrying His own sins, does it - ours): yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Yes He was afflicted, but the wrath of God? No. You won’t read wrath of God, it is through many afflictions, many trials, many tribulations that we enter the kingdom of God. We do not enter the kingdom of God through wrath!
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions (whose transgressions? His? Ours!), He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
v.6 All we like sheep have gone astray (Did Jesus like a sheep go astray?); we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
The only iniquity on Jesus Christ shoulders was ours, not His.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a Lamb to the slaughter (what is that ? That’s a sacrifice isn’t it, wait a minute was He brought as a Lamb of sin? I mean you just don’t read the nonsense do you), and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He opens not His mouth.
v. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living (what because He was sin? Because He was born in iniquity, birthed in iniquity conceived in sin? Because He was marred in His makers hand? Because He had to be crushed by the wrath of God? Where do you see such evil dirty religion in these verses): for the transgression of my people was He stricken.
v. 9 And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.
Well where were all these sins of Jesus Christ found then? If He actually was sin, the personification of sin, where were they? They were not in His actions, they were not in His mouth, they were not in His mind, they were not in His heart, where were they?
Isa. 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief…
We are looking for a confirmation of 2 Cor. 5:21 where Christ was made a sin offering. Now that is what it needs to be translated a ‘sin offering.’ Do we have a second confirmation of that?
v. 10 …When thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Just let that sink in. Was Jesus Christ made sin or was He made an OFFERING for sin? Well you just read it, “an offering for sin.” There it is! You can’t deny that.
What is that? That’s GOSPEL! Paul said I gave you the gospel, “how that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scripture” (1 Cor.15:1-3). How did He die according to the Scripture? He was made an offering for sin!
Isa. 53:11 …for He shall bear their iniquities [not His iniquities].
Jesus Christ did not have any iniquities before the cross or during the cross.
v. 12 …He bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
Someone can tell you they love you and buy you all the things in the world but in the end if all they are doing is BUYING your love with materialistic things aren't you going to doubt how deep their love for you actually is?
Take for instance a child, that child is told by the parent that they are loved. However, the parent never actually does anything for the child other than buy them what they want. When in reality all the child wants from the parent is a little time spent with said parent, not money, not toys, etc..
Now the parent never does anything for this child that is genuine, they simply give the child what they want but they don't actually spend time with the child. So the child is left to wonder if the parent really loves them as they claim they do.
So now ask yourself, What could God, as a Father do that would remove all doubt in your mind that as a PARENT a FATHER that He actually loves you?
Jesus died for our sins the way He did so that one day you can't go to God and say, "Well God you don't really love me. Sorry you don't. What did yo do to prove that you actually truly love me?"
Now that Jesus died a most painful death He can say; I loved you SO MUCH that I DIED for YOU.
So God leave any room in your mind for how deep His love for you is? Is their any room left to think that maybe God doesn't really love us at all?
"God THUS LOVES the world that He sent His only begotten Son..."
God bless,
Alex
daywalker:
Hello wonderment,
John 15:13 Greater love than this has no one, that anyone may be laying down his soul for his friends.
The Bottom Line is:
Jesus didn't have to die that way.
God didn't have to sacrifice His Son by having Him beaten and crucified.
He could have done it another way... But He chose this way to show us that He loves us.
God Bless,
Christopher 8)
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