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[9440geoff]

Hi BT family,

From LOF 7, talking about Revelation, Ray states:

The contents of this prophecy started with the vision of John on Patmos two thousand years ago and will continue until the return of Christ and the judgment of the world, and continues even beyond that until the end of the ages spoken of in this prophecy!

Firstly, I totally agree with what Ray says, so I just want to make that clear.

However, I was thinking about the verse: Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I was thinking how fortunate we are to live in this technological age with computers, internet access, email, and lets not forget Esword. It is comparatively easy for us to study and learn God's truths, albeit we need His Spirit to teach us, and teachers like Ray that God gives us.

I wonder how God's people "came out of her" in the time before Tyndedale, when people didn't have their own bibles, and only heard God's word in the very churches they needed to come out of. I wonder if there were any L Ray Smiths in those days and if there were how hard it must have been to spread the truth of God.

The freedom that we have now to share the Truth leaves me feeling that I should be shouting from the mountain tops, but then I remind myself that this is the way God has planned it, and He is all-powerful to accomplish what He will.

Does anybody else here feel like this?

Geoff

[Marky Mark]

Question

I wonder how God's people "came out of her" in the time before Tyndedale

Answer

but then I remind myself that this is the way God has planned it, and He is all-powerful to accomplish what He will.

Hey Geoff. I too have pondered that same question and also considered how fortunate we are, to be made aware of, the Truths of God.

I believe you have answered your own question on that one.



Peace...Mark

[Linny]

I think that we don't give the Holy Spirit of God enough credit for doing what God wants to be done.
I am a Bible studier. Have been for years. Used to get so mad at my husband because he didn't read it much or do any study on his own and I was the "most Spiritual" in the house. Or so I thought.

The Holy Spirit has been teaching my husband the truths we have learned here long before I was shown it. He comes to me now with things he has gotten through his time alone with the Lord that I "study" and find he is correct. He was right about tithing way back when I was terrified not to tithe. He wanted to leave the church long before I ever considered it.
Needless to say, I listen to him now when he comes to me with his "wierd" ideas. 

Blessings, Lin

[Ninny]

You are right about that Lin!!
I was thinking, in times past when people found truths in the Word they were pretty much rejected by "the church". You know what happened to lots of them,,they were burned at the stake as witches and heretics!! OUCH!! What pain has been wrought in the name of God and religion!! I'm glad nobody burned Ray at the stake! From some of the emails he's gotten if that were an option the man would have been gone LONG AGO!! 

We were born in this age for some reason! God does everything for a reason! How privileged we are to be alive in this age!! How wonderful to live in an age when we can be transported into the fellowship of other believers without leaving home!! We have each other at the touch of a computer key!! wow!! 
Kathy 
 counting my blessings!!

[Astrapho]

You are right about that Lin!!
I was thinking, in times past when people found truths in the Word they were pretty much rejected by "the church". You know what happened to lots of them,,they were burned at the stake as witches and heretics!! OUCH!! What pain has been wrought in the name of God and religion!! I'm glad nobody burned Ray at the stake! From some of the emails he's gotten if that were an option the man would have been gone LONG AGO!! 

We were born in this age for some reason! God does everything for a reason! How privileged we are to be alive in this age!! How wonderful to live in an age when we can be transported into the fellowship of other believers without leaving home!! We have each other at the touch of a computer key!! wow!! 
Kathy 
 counting my blessings!!

^ All I wanted to say 

[Dave in Tenn]

Rev 2:19  "'I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.
Rev 2:20  But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21  I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.
Rev 2:22  Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
Rev 2:23  and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
Rev 2:24  But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden.

I look at it this way, if anybody who has had a concience and the God-inspired wisdom to know that "God is Love" cannot mean "He will torture most of His creation for all eternity", then he or she has not 'learned' the depths of Satan.  God has always had a remnant, and most of their names were not recorded in Scripture or history--certainly not church history.  Many are called and few are chosen, but He chooses all He needs.

[Ninny]

Well said, Dave!! 
Kathy

[noeleena]

Hi..
     .A point here would be . that the words  given to John was to the church s  then . & it had to do with rome . so then what would be the problem . many have not had or read any word s that we have now . will the Lord speak through those who will allow the Lord to use them . like us to day . i am not talking about..   unknown language s (( & that s not correct .)) just our normal english . does the Lord use us now . & you have to remember even then it was all spoken & handed down . not every detail was writen . yet the Lord still spoke & used many people .
 So really the ?? is when the writen word we have now.    is taken away will it make any difference .
  What i am getting at is when we allow the Lord to use us . we speak as needed . under the athuorty  of the Holy Spirit.
 ...noeleena...

[mharrell08]

Hi..
     .A point here would be . that the words  given to John was to the church s  then . & it had to do with rome . so then what would be the problem . many have not had or read any word s that we have now . will the Lord speak through those who will allow the Lord to use them . like us to day . i am not talking about..   unknown language s (( & that s not correct .)) just our normal english . does the Lord use us now . & you have to remember even then it was all spoken & handed down . not every detail was writen . yet the Lord still spoke & used many people .
 So really the ?? is when the writen word we have now.    is taken away will it make any difference .
  What i am getting at is when we allow the Lord to use us . we speak as needed . under the athuorty  of the Holy Spirit.
 ...noeleena...

Noeleena,

No one 'allows' the Lord anything...God causes all, He does not wait on anyone's permission or allowance.

Rom 9:17-18  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


Marques

[aqrinc]

This idea of allowing GOD To do anything; is right out of freewill believing Christendom. Has anyone ever allowed an earthquake or hurricane to pass through their home or property?. Just a small analogy that quickly breaks down when put in context of one allowing GOD to do, as opposed to GOD Causing all things.

Isa 46:10 (GW)
From the beginning I revealed the end. From long ago I told you things that had not yet happened, saying, "My plan will stand, and I'll do everything I intended to do."

Isa 40: 21-28 (GNB)
21  Do you not know? Were you not told long ago? Have you not heard how the world began?
22  It was made by the one who sits on his throne above the earth and beyond the sky; the people below look as tiny as ants. He stretched out the sky like a curtain, like a tent in which to live.

23  He brings down powerful rulers and reduces them to nothing.
24  They are like young plants, just set out and barely rooted. When the LORD sends a wind, they dry up and blow away like straw.
25  To whom can the holy God be compared? Is there anyone else like him?

26  Look up at the sky! Who created the stars you see? The one who leads them out like an army, he knows how many there are and calls each one by name! His power is so great--- not one of them is ever missing!
27  Israel, why then do you complain that the LORD doesn't know your troubles or care if you suffer injustice?

28  Don't you know? Haven't you heard? The LORD is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts.

george.

 

[kweli]

No one 'allows' the Lord anything...God causes all, He does not wait on anyone's permission or allowance.

I've been having 'bible study' sessions with some folks who are still in bed with the mother harlot. Makes me want to puke how people say god needs them. Been hearing that a lot lately. The prayer before the discussion would go like "You are almighty, all-knowing and all powerful. We pray that you use us as you see fit". Then 5 minutes into the study you'd hear "god can do everything, except preach. You, who study his word, are the most important part of his plan, if only you would let him use you". Sometimes I just want to beat someone upside their head with their own bible...

All Glory to GOD

[indianabob]

Yes Kweli,
It is tempting to try to correct them in their error.  This tests our spirit too.

by the way, what version were they studying?  It makes a difference when you are trying to pound some sense into them.  Ha ha.  I think that proves to us who observe, that they are blinded and really cannot see their error.

Inndiana Bob

No one 'allows' the Lord anything...God causes all, He does not wait on anyone's permission or allowance.

I've been having 'bible study' sessions with some folks who are still in bed with the mother harlot. Makes me want to puke how people say god needs them. Been hearing that a lot lately. The prayer before the discussion would go like "You are almighty, all-knowing and all powerful. We pray that you use us as you see fit". Then 5 minutes into the study you'd hear "god can do everything, except preach. You, who study his word, are the most important part of his plan, if only you would let him use you". Sometimes I just want to beat someone upside their head with their own bible...

All Glory to GOD

[Astrapho]

No one 'allows' the Lord anything...God causes all, He does not wait on anyone's permission or allowance.

I've been having 'bible study' sessions with some folks who are still in bed with the mother harlot. Makes me want to puke how people say god needs them. Been hearing that a lot lately. The prayer before the discussion would go like "You are almighty, all-knowing and all powerful. We pray that you use us as you see fit". Then 5 minutes into the study you'd hear "god can do everything, except preach. You, who study his word, are the most important part of his plan, if only you would let him use you". Sometimes I just want to beat someone upside their head with their own bible...

All Glory to GOD

There was once when my catechist quoted "1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." , completely forgot about the last part, and focused on "we trust in the living God"!

I know this because in the next breath, he said, "If you don't follow His commandments or go for confession, you might go to purgatory, you might even go to hell."

Of course, I kept my mouth shut...

[daywalker]

You are right about that Lin!!
I was thinking, in times past when people found truths in the Word they were pretty much rejected by "the church". You know what happened to lots of them,,they were burned at the stake as witches and heretics!! OUCH!! What pain has been wrought in the name of God and religion!! I'm glad nobody burned Ray at the stake! From some of the emails he's gotten if that were an option the man would have been gone LONG AGO!! 

We were born in this age for some reason! God does everything for a reason! How privileged we are to be alive in this age!! How wonderful to live in an age when we can be transported into the fellowship of other believers without leaving home!! We have each other at the touch of a computer key!! wow!! 
Kathy 
 counting my blessings!!

Excellent post Kathy!!

On the topic of "the church" and its actions over the years.. I find it so ironic how the Protestants boast about how they are 'superior' to the Catholics and that Catholics are doomed for hell... [heard it all my life in my 'free will baptist' church...] And yet, AND YET... ALL of the "Protestant" doctrines originated from Catholicism!! 

And thanx to modern technology and the Internet anyone can find these obvious facts in a matter of minutes.. It amazes me more and more when I study the history of the Church, that more Protestants today don't at least know the fact that their teachings [regardless of how many 'adjustments' they make...] are actually Catholic.


But then I remember PROVERBS 25.2 

Daywalker 

[mharrell08]

Excellent post Kathy!!

On the topic of "the church" and its actions over the years.. I find it so ironic how the Protestants boast about how they are 'superior' to the Catholics and that Catholics are doomed for hell... [heard it all my life in my 'free will baptist' church...] And yet, AND YET... ALL of the "Protestant" doctrines originated from Catholicism!! 

And thanx to modern technology and the Internet anyone can find these obvious facts in a matter of minutes.. It amazes me more and more when I study the history of the Church, that more Protestants today don't at least know the fact that their teachings [regardless of how many 'adjustments' they make...] are actually Catholic.


But then I remember PROVERBS 25.2 

Daywalker 

Chris, you reminded me of an email from Ray that I read recently:

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,242.0.html):

Dear Albert:
Neither you nor the Jehovah's Witnesses have the slightly clue as to what you are talking about. You throw phrases around as though there really is any such nonsense in the Scriptures.
I will give you a THOUSAND DOLLARS if you can show me "Armageddon's Lake of Fire." That is sheer unscriptural poppycock, Albert.  Who says that those who go to destruction cannot repent and be saved in Judgment?
 
Who? Where?  That is man-made Christian nonsense. Jesus came to SAVE THAT WHICH IS LOST (destruction is translated from the very same Greek word as "lost").  Don't try to teach, because you don't have at least an elementary undersanding of the Scriptures.
 
You don't even know what judgment is for. What it accomplishes.  God can bring anyone to repentance in less than five seconds.  Where did you ever come up with "free choice?"  There is no such thing as "free will." It is unscriptural nonsense. Read my 120 pages of Scriptures proving man has no free will, but God's Sovereign will controls all of man's rebellious wills to the contrary. Then write me back and give me one Scripture that supports a human will or choice that is independent of the sovereignty of God. This doctrine is BLASPHEMY,  Albert, and the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians worship this idol of the heart when it is in reality one of the most gross evils of the human carnal mind and spirit.
 
There is not a nickel's worth of difference between the JW's and Catholics and Protestants. They all believe ninety percent of each others doctrines. Albert, READ the material on my site and learn, or go about your business.

Ray


I love the ending too...read the material on the site and LEARN, or GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS!

I going to ask Craig if we can post that as a 'welcome' intro for the forum...LOL, just kidding.  (sorta)


Marques

[cjwood]

Sometimes I just want to beat someone upside their head with their own bible...

i laughed outloud at the mental picture of this. 

claudia

[daywalker]

...There is not a nickel's worth of difference between the JW's and Catholics and Protestants. They all believe ninety percent of each others doctrines. Albert, READ the material on my site and learn, or go about your business.

Ray[/color]


I love the ending too...read the material on the site and LEARN, or GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS!

I going to ask Craig if we can post that as a 'welcome' intro for the forum...LOL, just kidding.  (sorta)


Marques

LOL, that's funny. I don't recall ever reading that email... and I've read a lot of them. Amazingly, I think I've learned just as much from reading Ray's emails than I have from his articles. I remember when I first discovered Ray's site last year, I was amazed by his teachings.. but it was his emails that really got my attention. Seeing how he communicated with so-called 'Christians' writing to him are what got my attention. I'd read emails from people and think 'wow, he/she has a point, I wonder how Ray will respond...' and then Ray's response would blow their 'point' outta the water!! Totally! Completely! Scripturally! Not only did he clearly know what he was talking about, he spoke with Authority unlike I had ever seen before...

of course, I know where he got it from...

Matt 7:28-29


Daywalker 

[cjwood]

i agree whole heartedly daywalker, regarding ray's emails. i am now on page 85 of his past emails. they present so much information and truths to learn. and indeed, ray does blow them all out of the water. but as you say, we know where ray gets the Authority.

claudia

[darren]

I wonder how God's people "came out of her" in the time before Tyndedale, when people didn't have their own bibles, and only heard God's word in the very churches they needed to come out of. I wonder if there were any L Ray Smiths in those days and if there were how hard it must have been to spread the truth of God.

Geoff: check out Ray's audio #1 on how we got the bible. one of the questions it ansewers is when people didn't have their own bibles. What did they study: how did they know God;s truth. I'll just say they had scripture, God's truth in the O.T. They also had some great prophets teaching the scriptures. Also it is very interesting that Luke was inspired to go out teach the Gentiles first. What gospel was he teaching from? Check out the audio. It ansewers some of the questions that you originally asked in your post. (interesting               

                                                           Darren

[9440geoff]

Thanks for that Darren. I've started to read the transcript, but I think it will take me several days as it's a looong paper.

Geoff