Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Amrhrasach]

What is the point of life?  If man has no freewill then we live our lives according to the plans God has made, no?   

Ecc. 3:1 “To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven”

Ray:  “All the choices of all humanity are preordained by God to happen, and as such, not one is free to not happen. Therefore, no one has a will that can operate independent from or in opposition to, God’s preordained purpose.”

Ray: “Man’s will is predicated on previous circumstances and causes, all of which originate in God’s preordained plan and purpose.”

Ray: “The human will is not free to change anything that God has pre-appointed. You will "will" according to the circumstances God places in your path. And you are not free to "will" otherwise.”

So every person lives their life according to this rule that has been established.  And all are evil.  All possess evilness in their heart, none are excluded.

Psa 14:3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mat 15:18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

But all experience evil.

Ecc. 2:23—"For all his day, pains and vexation are his experience."

Ecc. 1:13—"It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."

And God does it:

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ecc 6:1  There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:


But some are worse than others in the carrying out of evil.

Ray:  “One scripture says God frames evil, you know what it is when you put a frame around something,  you know frame it.  He frames evil, so it won’t go totally out of control.  What appears to be out of control today in the world, is actually framed.  God knows how far it’s going.  Nothing is out of control.

(Couldn’t find a verse to support the above, couldn’t find the right keyword)

So, we live our lives and then we die.   And then most, but not all, will have their part in the lake of fire.   

Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But all will be saved.   

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So all will be saved and the former things shall not be remembered. 

Isa 65:17  For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So.

What is the point of life?    Some live their lives with good possessions while others live their lives in poverty and sickness.    Some live their lives in what appears to be a lifetime of blessings and others live their lives creating more evil in this world often with much time spent in prison.   And it’s all by god’s great plan.  Which brings another question to mind: 

Mat 25:43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Visit and pray for those in prison……….should this be taken literal?

I digress.

So if it is ALL under god’s control and to each person a life has been assigned to live whether it be filled with good or filled with bad and then we all die and are resurrected to a life of righteousness where none of it is remembered by any of us anyway, then what is the overall point of life anyway?   What is the point?   It seems some are so blessed and favored by God and others just simply get the short end of the stick.   But none of it will be remembered.

Makes no sense.

Apology for the length and wall of words.

Gary

[Kat]

Hi Gary,

It is quite confusing see how this world is now and how any good can come out of all this.  But the way I see it, it's from the experience itself that we will gain.  While we are actually living our lives we are gaining valuable knowledge form the experiences, whether it be good or evil. 

Right now we are somewhere in the first phase of God's plan for this human race, it's pretty messy and really quite difficult to bare what is happening in the world right now. The way I understand it, this process is necessary.  In order to build character we go through some really painful experiences in which to learn about evil first.  BUT there is another phase yet to come and it will rectify and correct all that is wrong with what we have now. 

Now as far as not remembering this life and it's experiences, I do not believe that is exactly how it will be.  It is more of a thing like it will not come into our mind, or we will not hold on and agonize over the memories from what happened to us in this life.  Here is a better translation of that verse in Isaiah.

Isa 65:17 For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth,—And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart, (Rotherham)

This is a email that I think will help with your question.

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm ------------------------

I will give you some of the reason "why we are here."

A great and wise creator GOD PUT US HERE. He started the human family.

God is not stupid, He had a grand and eternal purpose in mind for making mankind.

God has many attributes, powers, knowledge, etc., that obviously mankind DOES NOT. But, God DOES WANT us to have those same attributes, especially LOVE!

Qualities of character such as Love are not instantaneously created, they must be developed. That development takes a creation, circumstances, and time. And so, God creates all these things necessary for their development.

Although God is GOOD, He nonetheless has a knowledge and understanding of both good AND EVIL. And so we TOO much come to an understanding of both good and evil. Why? Because ALL KNOWLEDGE hinges on their proper understanding.

People say things without ever realizing how stupid or impossible their thoughts or statements are. Most Christians suppose that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then we all would STILL, right now, be enjoying the beautiful life of happiness and bliss in a fabulous garden of Eden. NOT SO!!! Adam and Eve did  NOT appreciate what they had with God in the garden before they sinned. They had NO CONTRAST to compare it with.

Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE!  Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced ONLY GOOD.

Try to come up with even ONE VIRTUE, such as love, patience, honesty, goodness, faithfulness, loyalty, obedience, bravery, etc., etc., etc., ANYTHING of a virtuous nature, that does not involve the overcoming of SOME FORM OF EVIL! There is you answer! There IS NO VIRTUE, NO CHARACTER, NO STABILITY of any kind in any one, except he overcomes some form of EVIL.

Now can you see why we are here? Now can you see why there is not only good, but so much evil in the world? It is necessary! God did not put it here simply to make us miserable! God is NOT in a battle for supremacy with Satan. God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And Satan too, will be saved after he has done all of his dirty work. God will make him repent.

God is enlarging His family into BILLIONS of sons and daughters.  This life is part of the training ground to be the very SONS OF GOD.

All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.

I hope that helps your understanding a little better. Life will not always be miserable and painful as it may seem to you now. This too shall pass.

Sincerely,

Ray

[Dave in Tenn]

I don't see us (anybody) undergoing some process of amnesia, or the Lord (as I used to envision it) handing out small vials of Holy Tear Removal Ointment.  The former things which will pass away are the settings and conditions (and reasons) which caused tears, death, sorrow, crying, and pain.  These things will have been needful (even joy-inducing) for a season, but when they have fulfilled their purpose, they won't be needed any more. 

That's how absolutely COMPLETE a salvation our Lord has planned for us.

[Astrapho]

By the way, the framing evil verse...

Jer 18:11  Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

[lilitalienboi16]

I often times wonder the same things.

I'm kind of curious as to wether or not we will still have the love an affection for that one special person in our life [husband or wife depending] when we die and are resurrected and God becomes all in all.

The reason being is because, it would suck to get so close to that one special person in your life, to share a lifetime of joy and sorrow only for that bond to be broken / severed because God is now all in all and we are like the angels...

To be honest i don't want to be like the angels.. -.- I wanna feel that bond i share with that special person wether I'm a mortal human or a quickened spirit.

This whole idea of being like the angels kind of bothers me.. lol
I refuse to believe that we spend our whole life with someone through rain and shine only for God to come a long at the finish line and break we two apart because now He's here, like literally here, not like spiritually lol. I know He's with us spiritual right now but i mean in the end.. when its all clear and no more pain. I'm sorry but i just don't want that. At least not to lose the person i love more than anything on this earth, whomever that may be, because God is all in all and now we're like the angels and He's all the love we need.

Thats my two cents, i know this was a little off topic but i felt it pertained, somehow.. lol

[Amrhrasach]

Thank you all for your replies.   I am most grateful for the information you’ve shared and your point of view.

So you know where I was coming from, and why:

In addition to receiving some recent news of someone I know going back to prison for the fourth time I also sat down and watched a documentary on the Vietnam war.   Disturbing, all of it.   Both made me keenly aware of my own surroundings and the blessings that God has provided my own household.  Nothing elaborate by any stretch, but does it HAVE to be (?), especially after seeing the atrocities of war and thinking on the tragedies that befall so many on a daily basis in this world?    Life seems so cheap to so many.   And then there are those who walk this earth in such blessings of material wealth but who also have not a clue of the provider.  The same folks also walk and talk with such smugness of their great personal achievements.  All of it got next to me in a deeply emotional way. I felt sorry for those who have never had a chance in life.   I lost my own footing in belief and trust of God’s wisdom and strategy to achieve his mark and somehow, from a shallow human standpoint, even his wisdom seemed rather foolish.

 “Isa 64:4  For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

Gary

[Kat]

Hi Alex,

I think I understand what you are saying, I do remember young love and how strong it is.  But have you ever considered that the relationships we have in this life and especially the relationship between husband and wife, is just a shadow of what we will have with God.  Maybe God gives us these strong attachments with others as sort of a slight little taste of what being one with Him is like.  A mother builds an unbelievably strong bond with her child, this is a good thing, even a necessary thing.  Though this child will grow up and become their own independent person and marry.  This too is a good thing, but still that bond between mother and child remains.  I believe it will be somewhat the samewhen we become spirit, we will still have a bond with those people we were very close to in our physical life.  

I do not believe any person will be yanked into the spirit realm before they are ready.  While physical human being we mature in our spiritual understanding, God puts us through a process where we come to know Him very well and I believe it is a far deeper knowing than we can gain with anyone physically.  Only when He brings us to the point when we are completely ready, will He ever bring someone into this oneness with God.
  
I do believe that people become so accustom to this physical life and the physical things that they are experiencing, that they simply can not see beyond that right now.  The spirit realm is just too hard for most of us to comprehend at this time, I know it is for me.  But to say something or anything that we have now in the physical is so great that we don't even desire the spiritual, well maybe that is spoken out of ignorance.  I don't think that anybody that has matured spiritually and is ready will have any hesitation at all at becoming one with God.  So don't worry because it will not be something you will obtain with any regrets.  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[9440geoff]

Both made me keenly aware of my own surroundings and the blessings that God has provided my own household

My sentiments also, Gary. I've just watched 'Panorama' on the BBC. It was about men from various African countries trying to get into Europe. The journey includes crossing 1000 miles of Sahara desert to get to Tripoli, and then 200 miles across the Med to reach Italy. Many of them die of heat exhaustion in the desert or drown in the Med when the overcrowded, people-smuggling boats sink. Even those who make it don't find it easy, because of the recession. There just aren't enough jobs.

To say that I feel blessed is an understatement.

Geoff

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi Alex,

I think I understand what you are saying, I do remember young love and how strong it is.  But have you ever considered that the relationships we have in this life and especially the relationship between husband and wife, is just a shadow of what we will have with God.  Maybe God gives us these strong attachments with others as sort of a slight little taste of what being one with Him is like.  A mother builds an unbelievably strong bond with her child, this is a good thing, even a necessary thing.  Though this child will grow up and become their own independent person and marry.  This too is a good thing, but still that bond between mother and child remains.  I believe it will be somewhat the samewhen we become spirit, we will still have a bond with those people we were very close to in our physical life.  

I do not believe any person will be yanked into the spirit realm before they are ready.  While physical human being we mature in our spiritual understanding, God puts us through a process where we come to know Him very well and I believe it is a far deeper knowing than we can gain with anyone physically.  Only when He brings us to the point when we are completely ready, will He ever bring someone into this oneness with God.
  
I do believe that people become so accustom to this physical life and the physical things that they are experiencing, that they simply can not see beyond that right now.  The spirit realm is just too hard for most of us to comprehend at this time, I know it is for me.  But to say something or anything that we have now in the physical is so great that we don't even desire the spiritual, well maybe that is spoken out of ignorance.  I don't think that anybody that has matured spiritually and is ready will have any hesitation at all at becoming one with God.  So don't worry because it will not be something you will obtain with any regrets.  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I don't know kat. I mean i know God is with me, but i don't see God struggling through what i do. I know His Son did, and i know that He probably did some encridble suffering when He birthed wisdom and only He knows what else before but still... i mean, i'm not sitting through all these things, going through whatim going through, suffering and growing, with God like physically next to me. I don't ever hear Him talk to me, etc.. It's not that i doubt His existence, believe me my faith has never been stronger BUT i know that with the person i love on this earth, all these things are that much more real with them and so to me, the bond is almost stronger in a sense. I know im physical and carnal as a human being, but thats exactly what makes my bond with that special person, so much stronger than say with God. I Just don't understand anything He does in my life, i don't understand what He's thinking, i don't understand when He's hurting, if He does still, I don't understand where He's going, or why, i really don't understand much and so i can't RELATE ONE BIT to Him...Not saying He doesn't relate to me.. i just don't relate to Him at all. At least with my human partner, i can understand all this and relate on such a deep lever with them, one that to me is so much more real than anything i've ever felt. I know nothing is perfect with us being carnal, with us being human, but maybe thats what makes it so much more real?

I don't know, He seems so distant imo, even though He's so close. I know i'm almost contradicting myself but maybe i am that conflicted when it comes to all this. I have no problem believing in the Lord, in Jesus, the Savior of the world and all that. In fact I strongly do, but it's just my bond, my relationship, sometimes it doesn't feel real. Like right now. Like alot of the times in my life. My relationship with my friends feels more real, even though we are so carnal.

lol gl figuring out what all i just said ment, if ya understand me, props to you, if not, eh no worries. Thanks for the words of wisdom Kat. Much appreciated. Still don't know about it all though when it comes to this.

God bless,

Alex

[NoviceBeliever]

Alex:

I am including this excerpt from "Esther-The Destiny of Women" in hopes that it helps. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5506.0.html

2 Cor 6:18  And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to Me sons and DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty.

Did He leave women out?  No, “sons and daughters.”  Even though sons is used more often, daughters is in there, sons and daughters.  God will be a Father to His sons and daughters.  God is no respecter of persons.  

Gal 3:28  There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be NO MALE AND FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There is no male or female, you’re all one, you’re sons and daughters.  God is no respecter of persons.  

Alex, we are not male or female but are complete after the resurrection. GOD is allowing us these male/female relationships to show us the qualities that we will need to be complete.  It is similar to GOD showing us both good and evil, without one how would you know what the other was. NB

[Marlene]

What, I want to add to this is about Love. I believe, all the other traits fall into place, when we learn to love like God. We humans pick and choose who we love for the most part.

I learned a hard lesson, as a young girl about loving someone who does not love you back. It is the most painful thing we can go through. Even, though he did not love me back, I never lost my love for him. But, I also learned you survive it. I do not regret loving him since I became older. I have seen a purpose for that in my life. True Love helps us to get the other traits of Christ such as honesty, patience, longsuffering , etc. I for one know that no one can love me like Christ. We have no guarantee when we fall in love it will work out.

In this physical life I find that Love can hurt. It hurts if you think you give all the love and get nothing in return. It hurts when some one you love is dying and you cannot help them or control it. But, it teaches us to take our eyes off of the physical. I think most of this comes with age Alex. I think, it comes with growth. God wants us to experience the physical and I believe it is all a part of life here. It is a journey we take and then we find that it is temporary in pain and sorrow and also with some happy.

Oh, I long for the time when we all can be together in perfect love and joy and peace. I don't think God plans for us not to remember each other. I believe, that is just one of the joys we will receive is to be together again. That, Love won't be in the physical sense, but it will be wonderful and perfect. We will never cry again, if we loose in love. We will never cry cause someone is ill and leaving us.  Cause it will be the ulitmate Love like Christ.

Tonight, for some reason it hit me that in this country how blessed we have been. Not saying there are not people here with out money or food. But, when I see the little children dying and living in tents with holes. It makes me thank God. Why, God gives more suffering then joy or money ? Is a question I cannot answer. But, I do believe that our suffering builds character.  I do believe it makes you want to be with our creator. It makes you want to be a better person. It teaches you to love the unlovable. It teaches us not to judge. If, we have Love like Christ there will be no pain in this Love. All, this physical stuff leads us to Christ and makes us depend on him.

In His Love,
Marlene

[lilitalienboi16]

Alex:

I am including this excerpt from "Esther-The Destiny of Women" in hopes that it helps. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5506.0.html

2 Cor 6:18  And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to Me sons and DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty.

Did He leave women out?  No, “sons and daughters.”  Even though sons is used more often, daughters is in there, sons and daughters.  God will be a Father to His sons and daughters.  God is no respecter of persons.  

Gal 3:28  There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be NO MALE AND FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There is no male or female, you’re all one, you’re sons and daughters.  God is no respecter of persons.  

Alex, we are not male or female but are complete after the resurrection. GOD is allowing us these male/female relationships to show us the qualities that we will need to be complete.  It is similar to GOD showing us both good and evil, without one how would you know what the other was. NB

Yes but it is the relationship, the interaction between the two, male and female, that i think is what makes life incredible! Why when God becomes all in all, do we have to lose that bond between our significant other, lose what made us so great together in life? Why can't we stay together,with that bond that makes us so close? I just don't understand. I have no problem loving God, having Him there in the end, as He is now, but in so much more real terms. I however don't like the fact that everything we built in this life with that other special person is from what it seems, no longer there, or at least not as it currently is in this life. I just don't get why it can't be.

Does that make sense? lol

[NoviceBeliever]

Alex:  With all do love and respect, you gotta get out of your head a little bit....  You are focusing on the physical feelings you get from another.  I don't believe that God says we won't recognize the people that we loved in this life, BUT that we are complete in ourselves as a WHOLE spiritual being.  There is not need for the carnal feelings we have for another and really this is what you are speaking to.  I am not saying that people we are bound to here do not serve a purpose, but it's over, finito, finished.  Sorry dude, tough love.

[lilitalienboi16]

Alex:  With all do love and respect, you gotta get out of your head a little bit....  You are focusing on the physical feelings you get from another.  I don't believe that God says we won't recognize the people that we loved in this life, BUT that we are complete in ourselves as a WHOLE spiritual being.  There is not need for the carnal feelings we have for another and really this is what you are speaking to.  I am not saying that people we are bound to here do not serve a purpose, but it's over, finito, finished.  Sorry dude, tough love.

Why does the LOVE for another human being, have to be a 'focus on physical feelings?'

I'm not talking about lust here. I understand the difference between love and lust. I also didn't say anything about not 'recognizing' others.

I am however, trying to explain my relationship with God, my "bond" - How and why i feel the way i do towards Him and why i feel so differently towards another human being, be they family, friend or lover.

No need for apologies

[NoviceBeliever]

Alex:  You don't know me very well, but I am not one to apologize for something that I feel that I am right about, it may not be pretty, but there are some things I do know.  But that being said, I was not talking about lust, I was talking about the physical feelings (heart swelling, sweaty palms, can't live without, think of you all the time, answer each others thoughts, etc.) of being in love. What is to come, what we will experience in terms of love after the resurrection will be so far superior to anything we will contemplate during this life time that you won't even miss it.  This is just a little taste, this is the lesson, this is the joy that we are promised.  How could anything we experience even live up to that promise? This is what God has promised...how can we not feel close to HIM for that?Just you wait and see...and this I do KNOW!