bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Eternal Life not promised?  (Read 23144 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Daniel

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2006, 05:56:05 PM »

Quote from: jerreye
Hi Daniel,

Your welcome :)

I am glad that you posted that piece of scripture...

1Cr 1:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen [perceived], nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, "the things" which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Couple that with the following verse and we can better understand what this word "Aidios" means:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal ["AIDIOS"...IMPERCEPTIBLE] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

What does "Eternal Power" mean, anyway? Who knows! It doesn't really make too much sense to me. However, IMPERCEPTIBLE POWER does make sense to me...Eye has NOT SEEN!

God Bless,

Jeremy


Yes Jeremy amen! The very next verse verse says God has revealed this very thing!

1Cr 1:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, "the things" which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

He is good! :D

Peace

Daniel
Logged

jerreye

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2006, 12:17:49 AM »

Amen Daniel :)

The carnal man will NEVER perceive God's true nature and power. But by His SPIRIT, all things are possible!

God Bless,

Jeremy
Logged

Lightseeker

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2006, 12:51:14 AM »

Jerreye
Quote
Hi Lightseeker,

If something is truly "everlasting", then that essentially means it WILL never and CAN never end. Otherwise it wouldn't really be "EVERlasting", it would be "AGElasting". See what I mean?

jerreye,

Yes, I do see what you mean.  And when the word aionian and aionios are used your understanding up above applies IMO.  But when the Gr. word aidios is the Greek word use then I believe the interpretation of 'eternal' as we define eternity truly does apply.

Quote
Here is the Concordant Literal NT rendering of Jude 1:6
 I asked you for the source of your opinion and I assume from the above that it's the Concordant translation...which is a very good one...but certainly not infallible.  I looked in my copy of BAUER ARNDT GINGRICH's Greek English lexicon of the NT.  They go back into the writings of that day to determine definitions of a word.  This particular word was used in the writings of  several other authors and this source says the defintion of 'ETERNAL' is the correct definition.

The word aidios also is a derivative of the Greek word aei which in Strongs  is defined as (continued duration); "ever;" by qualification regularly; by impl. earnestly  
And my Greek lexicon translates aei as 'always'.  So if you're still comfortable with defining it the way you are because of the CLT, that's OK with me.  I'll stick with what I feel are better sources IMO.  I hope that's OK with you.  :D
 
Quote
But I totally see where you are at right now with that word...I was there about a year ago when I posted a message stating my beliefs (at the time) that ADIOS means "everlasting". I was mistaken.

Maybe you were and maybe you weren't.  :wink:

Quote
God bless!
Jeremy


Same to you Bro.
Logged

jerreye

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2006, 01:16:23 AM »

Hey Lightseeker,

Actually I don't get my opinion from the Concordant. I just used it to show that this word IS translated imperceptible in "a" literal translation (one of the best mind you). I DID, however, get my opinion from the scriptures (regardless of translation). Jude 1:6 proves that this word cannot mean everlasting.

To say that these messengers are in EVERLASTING chains, and in the very same breath, say that it is only UNTIL a specific point in time (the judgment) is a self-evident contradiction. I am not about to start believing in scriptural contradictions.

I certainly don't condemn you for your opinion, however :)

God Bless,
Jeremy
Logged

Harryfeat

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2006, 10:31:39 AM »

Quote from: jerreye
Hey Lightseeker,

I DID, however, get my opinion from the scriptures (regardless of translation). Jude 1:6 proves that this word cannot mean everlasting.



God Bless,
Jeremy


 If you are getting your opinion regardless of translation then I assume you must be reading in the original greek. I wonder if this might have been the same process that was used to create the vulgate.

I got the impression that the word "mighty" or  "unseen"  and several other words could fit in addition to "imperceptible. "  Is there a different greek word that actually translates to imperceptible?

I don't deny you your opinion of course and indeed I respect it.  I just find it scary for me to walk a high wire without a safety net.  I can't read greek so I must rely on others' translations and reliable dictionaries.  I can see now that this kind of reliance might somehow be misplaced.


feat


ps Lightseeker Sorry, It wasn't clear to me,  the source of your definition.
Logged

chrissiela

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2006, 11:29:29 AM »

Maybe it would be better (or clearer) to say that we are not promised "eternal life", we are promised "aionios life"..... it was the exchange of "eternal life" for "immortality" that threw me off.... not quite an 'even exchange'... as it addresses two different words from the scriptures..... though BOTH come by and through Jesus Christ.


Chrissie

Good discussion on the words, though.  :D  Now I don't feel so bad for being confused.  :wink:
Logged

Harryfeat

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2006, 12:05:21 PM »

Quote from: chrissiela
Maybe it would be better (or clearer) to say that we are not promised "eternal life", we are promised "aionios life"..... it was the exchange of "eternal life" for "immortality" that threw me off.... not quite an 'even exchange'... as it addresses two different words from the scriptures..... though BOTH come by and through Jesus Christ.


Chrissie

Good discussion on the words, though.  :D  Now I don't feel so bad for being confused.  :wink:


Hello Chrissie,


Isn't  immortality virtually the same as eternal life.  If not, are they significantly different, how?  That is the difficulty with changing words to fit what would be more meaningful.  If we are promised immortality, why would it only be age abiding life translated elswhere.    It seems that for the bible not to contradict that eternal life must be what was meant even though a different greek word was used.

I agree that Ray's response was confusing at best.  If I didn't know better I would think he was playing word games with my mind.  

feat
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2006, 12:22:23 PM »

From "Is Everlasting Scriptural?"

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth: Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belong to" the aeons or ages."

The Interpreter’s Dictionry of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643): Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."

Elliot’s Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46(. Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios—it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

Hasting’s Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels): Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting—nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means "BEFORE times eonian." Since this Scripture tells us that there was time "before" eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be "before" eternity.)

The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693): ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as ‘forever,’ means in itself no more than ‘for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean ‘from eternity’ but ‘of old’ Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657), Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, "during" but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59). The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting.’ Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198), "That the adjective is applied to some things which are ‘endless’ does not, of course, for one moment prove that the word itself meant ‘endless;’ and to introduce this rendering into many passages would be utterly impossible and absurd."



In Dr. Farrar’s book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378), "Since aion meant ‘age,’ aionios means, properly, ‘belonging to an age,’ or ‘age-long,’ and anyone who asserts that it must mean ‘endless’ defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant ‘eternity,’ which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek—aionios could still mean only ‘belonging to eternity’ and not ‘lasting through it."

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641), "The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness." Page 655: "The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity." Page 645: "The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning."

Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist, "I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited."

Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63), "Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term."

Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian, "The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods."

Professor Knappe of Halle wrote, "The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THE ANCIENT LANGUAGES." (CAPS emphasis are mine).

An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279), "Eternity is not a Biblical theme." (Vol. 1, p. 52), "What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation."



The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus. Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be "everlasting," seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity]. He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity], and also for the period during which Herod’s temple stood [since Herod’s temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean ‘eternity’ when he wrote ‘aionios’].

Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema, "an eonian interval." How many intervals do you know of that are "endless" or "eternal?"

Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3, says that, "Satan’s kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world."

Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57), used the word aionios repeadedly: aionion kolasin…all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, "eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years," or as some translate this clause "but a period of a thousand years only." Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not "endless."

To read the entire article go here;

http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm
Logged

chrissiela

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2006, 12:23:29 PM »

Feat,

This is only as *I* see it… not sure exactly how Ray sees it… ok?

Do I see immortality and eternal life as the same thing? Yes! In that I see them BOTH as Christ. Christ ONLY has immortality and this mortal must “put on? IMMORTALITY, right? I see this as being ‘clothed’ with Christ.

And what do the scriptures say about “eternal life??


    Joh 17:3  And
this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jo 5:10-11  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  11  And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[/list:u]

I see this as something that we have NOW…. If we have the Son. See what I mean?

Now, why I said it would have been ‘better’ to say it differently is because of the first verse that I quoted:

    1Jo 2:25  And
this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.[/list:u]

So we are, in this verse of scripture, PROMISED “eternal life? (or aionios life)…. “Eternal life? (or aionios life) IS the “promise?… I cannot find a “promise? of “immortality?, per say…. Just that this mortal must “put on? immortality. But really BOTH come by and through the Son.

See what I mean?

Blessings,
Chrissie
Logged

Harryfeat

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2006, 12:48:33 PM »

I understand what you mean.  You are right on!

I was painting the picture that if you can change a greek word meaning eternal to mean imperceptible, how far off is it to call aonian life eternal life.

In fact, that's what was done in the latin translation.    Was it not?

Thanks for that article.  I plan to read it.  

feat
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2006, 01:12:45 PM »

There is a difference between immortal and eternal, if God were to create an immortal creature today, he would not be "eternal" only the Father is eternal "without beginning, without end" eternal means to have always existed when using it in relation to God.

Back to this verse;

1Jo 2:25  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal166 life, (KJV)

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os

Rotherham's version;

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise unto us, The age abiding life.
Logged

chrissiela

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2006, 02:05:02 PM »

Yes Joe, I am not arguing against that.

I only said that they were the "same" IN THAT they both come by and through Jesus Christ... not that they could necessarily be used interchangeably (which is the very reason that the reply confused me).

The promise, to which you and I both reference from the same verse of scripture, is for aionios life. Right? Not "athanasia" (which means deathlessness or immortality)?

Do all receive immortality?
Do all receive eternal life?

While surely we have an implied promise of immortality (or deathlessness), even though it is not expressly stated... there is an expressed promise that is made "to us" of eternal/aionios/age-abiding life….

So it was a bit confusing, at first, to read:

Quote
But NO ONE will be given "eternal life," as it is nowhere promised in Scripture. What is promised is "immortality."


Even though the word is improperly translated the promise is there and it is for eternal/aionios/age-abiding life… and not immortality (as expressly stated).

Now maybe Ray addressed the implied promise of immortality because the question was will ALL be saved and will ALL receive eternal life.

And the answer, then, may be that while not all receive the promise of eternal/aionios/age-abiding life, ALL will receive immortality.

It was just confusing… the mixing of the two when, as you say, they are not the same and yet the there is a promise of both (one expressly made to some and one implied to all)….

I’m sorry I found the answer confusing, but I did. That’s why I asked. And I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don’t think that I am stupid or at all unfamiliar with the scriptures. So if I found it confusing I would be willing to bet that others did as well.

I hope that the discussion over it, here, might help clear up any confusion that may have existed.

I’m certainly not trying to ADD to it.  :oops:

Blessings,
Chrissie
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2006, 02:41:39 PM »

Chrissie,

I understand your point, sometimes things (for me) are not very easily understood. At times I become my own stumbling block, especially when my in my zeal for understanding His Word borders on hyperactivity. That is my problem at times, often I feel like a kid in an amusement park, wanting to run off in 20 directions at the same time because I want it all (knowledge) now!

Thanks,

Joe
Logged

chrissiela

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2006, 02:48:14 PM »

Hi Joe!

Now that I can relate too!! :D

Chrissie
Logged

jerreye

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2006, 03:00:32 PM »

Hi Harryfeat,

You wrote:

Quote
If you are getting your opinion regardless of translation then I assume you must be reading in the original greek. I wonder if this might have been the same process that was used to create the vulgate.
 


I think you missed my point. I am not "reading in the original Greek". My "opinion" that the Greek word "AIDIOS" (uses only a couple of times in scripture) cannot mean "Everlasting" comes from Jude 1:6. We know that these "chains" are only UNTIL the Judgment. Something cannot be "never-ending" and at the same time "come to an end". If this is how we are to use language, then we might as well start communicating by barking like dogs!  :lol:

For your review, please read Jude 1:6 again:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting [GK: "AIDIOS"...IMPERCEPTIBLE] chains under darkness [spiritual darkness of having NO TRUTH] UNTO (UNTIL) the judgment of the great day.

Now, WHY are they in imperceptible chains (which hold them in SPIRITUAL bondage so that they CANNOT understand the TRUTH and be HEALED) UNTIL (and only UNTIL) the Judgment? Because the "imperceptible chains" will be BROKEN at that time. The judgment will BE their salvation and it is where and HOW they will LEARN righteousness...AT THE JUDGMENT.  :D

Isaiah 26:9 And when Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN (not burn) RIGHTEOUSNESS"

...it will be no difference with the angels, including Satan, the Devil.

CAN something that is "AIDIOS" (imperceptible) BE imperceptible FOREVER? SURE, in theory! No argument there.

Based on Jude 1:6, I can scripturally conclude (not based on various lexicons or concordances, but based on scriptural USAGE) that this word AIDIOS, doesn't directly speak of duration or time, but rather, "imperceptibility".

Cheers,
Jeremy
Logged

Lightseeker

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2006, 03:46:57 PM »

Good imput and references from you guys...and you too Chrissie.

Jerreye

Here is a reference which explains Jude 1:6 from the position I/we're apparently not conveying to you.  Read it and see what you think.

There is but one Greek word beside aiónios rendered everlasting, and applied to punishment, in the New Testament, and that is the word aidios found in Jude 6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." This word is found in but one other place in the New Testament, viz. Rom. i:20: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead."

Now it is admitted that this word among the Greeks had the sense of eternal,and should be understood as having that meaning wherever found, unless by express limitation it is shorn of its proper meaning. It is further admitted that had aidios occurred where aiónios does, there would be no escape from the conclusion that the New Testament teaches Endless Punishment. It is further admitted that the word is here used in the exact sense of aiónios, as is seen in the succeeding verse: vs 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." That is to say, the "aidios" chains in verse 6 are "even as" durable as the aiónion fire" in verse 7. Which word modifies the other?

1. The construction of the language shows that the latter word limits the
former. The aidios chains are even as the aiónion fire. As if one should say "I have been infinitely troubled, I have been vexed for an hour," or "He is an endless talker, he can talk five hours on a stretch." Now while "infinitely" and "endless" convey the sense of unlimited, they are both limited by what follows, as aidios, eternal, is limited by aiónios, indefinitely long.

2. That this is the correct exegesis is evident from still another limitation of the word. "The angels - - - he hath reserved in everlasting chains UNTO the judgement of the great day." Had Jude said that the angels are held in aidios chains, and stopped there, not limiting the word, we should not dare deny that he taught their eternal imprisonment. But when he limits the duration by aiónion and then expressly states that it is only unto a certain date, we understand that the imprisonment will terminate, even though we find applied to it a word that intrinsically signifies eternal duration, and that was used by the Greeks
to convey the idea of eternity,
and was attached to punishment by the Greek Jews of our Savior's times, to describe endless punishment, in which they were believers.

But observe, while this word aidios was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment, he never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never employed it. What ground then is there for saying that he adopted the language
of his day on this subject? Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment.
His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described
unending ruin, he disciplined, resulting in reformation.
Logged

Gill

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2006, 04:49:32 PM »

Cool post, Dee, thanks for that  :idea:
Logged

jerreye

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2006, 05:48:04 PM »

Sorry, Lightseeker, but that bit ALMOST convinced me several months ago. We need to be very careful not to be easily swayed by human reason such as this.

Understand that this article of yours was written by a MAN, and he makes certain assumptions.

He states that "..it is admitted"....no it isn't. It isn't "admitted" by any of the writters of God's Word that this word means "everlasting". It is "ASSUMED" by many that this word means eternal.

If the message of Jude 1:6 (as far as AIDIOS is concerned) is talking about the LENGTH of time these chains will bind these messengers, and that this binding will come to an end at the judgment, (THIS is the thing "ADMITTED" by the writer of this passage of scripture, that these chains are NOT eternal, but rather come to an END, which is the OPPOSITE meaning of "eternal") then why not use the word "AIONIOS"?

"...aionios bonds, UNTIL the judgment...".

The answer is simple. Because Jude is not telling us "how long" these chains will bind them. He is telling us that these BONDS are imperceptible. These messengers do not know what is BINDING them. But they WILL know what is binding them at the judgment, when they are set FREE by God's righteous judgments.

I am not trying to sound stubborn, Lightseeker. I just don't believe is contradictions in the scriptures. I guess if you still believe that Aidios means "Eternal" (or any other direct agent of TIME), then we are going to have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings?  8)

Jeremy

PS: What does "AIDIOS" mean today? I do not know. I do know that "AIONIOS" - TODAY - means "everlasting" in the Greek language. Check any MODERN Greek dictionary. Words do change meaning over time. Catholic bias of the 3rd century on, I believe, is the direct cause of the word AIONIOS changing its meaning from "of the ages" to "everlasting".
Logged

Lightseeker

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2006, 02:16:49 AM »

Gill,

Quote
Cool post, Dee, thanks for that


Thanks Gill.  I hope the weather is better in England than here where I live.  Hot and windy...really windy.

jerreye

Quote
I guess if you still believe that Aidios means "Eternal" (or any other direct agent of TIME), then we are going to have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings?  


Yep, that's how I still believe.  Agree to disagree???  Sounds good to me.  Neither position determines where we're going to spend eternity by whoevers definition is right anyway...that's for sure.  :D
Logged

jerreye

  • Guest
Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2006, 03:01:40 AM »

Amen to that, Lightseeker  :D

On a side note, when I said that this word Aidios had nothing to do with time, perhaps I was not entirely accurate (I think it is pretty context dependant).

One other nice potential translation for the word Aidios in Jude 6 could be "perpetual". In other words, these chains are ON-GOING/PERPETUAL/CONTINUAL (we don't know exactly how long, but it is clear that it will be ongoing or continual...), but only UNTIL the judgment.

Here is an example...

"I am on a perpetual/on-going (Aidios) vacation, UNTIL my boss tells me otherwise"

The above line makes perfect sense...

Now, I certainly could NOT say the following (apart, perhaps from an idiomatic [idiotic?] expression)...
 
"I am on an EVERLASTING vaction UNTIL my boss tells me otherwise."

This above line makes no sense at all.

Imperceptible? Perpetual (with an imperceptible ending)? Both work for me, but "Eternal (without an ending)? Not a chance :)

Peace Bro!
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.122 seconds with 24 queries.