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Author Topic: Eternal Life not promised?  (Read 23116 times)

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jerreye

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2006, 01:50:23 AM »

Hi Rocky,

I agree with you :)

Jesus WAS the resurrection, Jesus IS the resurrection and Jesus WILL BE the resurrection. He also is the LIFE and the TRUTH. But my point is, is that even though this is all true, it doesn't mean that WE have been already "resurrected" (past OR present). We WILL BE resurrected, but not until the future when we are awaken from our "sleep of death".

This happens at the last trump that Paul spoke about when the DEAD in Christ are risen first, THEN we which are alive and remail at that time will be caught up in the air to meet them. This event has not taken place in the PAST and it isn't taking place NOW, but it WILL take place in the "WILL BE" future. This is the point I was trying to make. Isn't this what the scriptures teach?

Jeremy
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2006, 01:54:37 AM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver


.....Christ was very much alive in spirit (our example) during His time on earth, yet He experienced physical death (unless you do not believe He really "died" for our sins) He experienced the sleep of death, but will anyone argue he was not of the Spirit?


Joe


Joe, was Christ's death physically what we have to physically go through in order to to be resurrected, or was Christ's physical death a representative of our spiritual death/death to self.  A shadow of the spiritual in us???  

So many things that happened during Christ's walk on the earth were physical events that have spiritual implication to us, ie: healing the sick, casting out demons, making lame walk, making blind sea, deaf hear etc.  

Seems we could also look at the physical death of Christ as this too????
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2006, 01:56:00 AM »

Quote from: jerreye
Hi Rocky,

I agree with you :)

Jesus WAS the resurrection, Jesus IS the resurrection and Jesus WILL BE the resurrection. He also is the LIFE and the TRUTH. But my point is, is that even though this is all true, it doesn't mean that WE have been already "resurrected" (past OR present). We WILL BE resurrected, but not until the future when we are awaken from our "sleep of death".

This happens at the last trump that Paul spoke about when the DEAD in Christ are risen first, THEN we which are alive and remail at that time will be caught up in the air to meet them. This event has not taken place in the PAST and it isn't taking place NOW, but it WILL take place in the "WILL BE" future. This is the point I was trying to make. Isn't this what the scriptures teach?

Jeremy


Why does awaken from our "sleep of death" have to be physical????
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jerreye

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2006, 02:03:11 AM »

Oh, but it isn't It is a spiritual resurrection.

There is a physical body (which we have NOW) and there is a spiritual body (when does this happen?). Do you now posses your spiritual body, Rocky, or will this happen in the future, at THE resurrection?
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2006, 02:05:06 AM »

Quote from: jerreye
Hi Rocky,

I agree with you :)

..... This event has not taken place in the PAST and it isn't taking place NOW, but it WILL take place in the "WILL BE" future. This is the point I was trying to make. Isn't this what the scriptures teach?

Jeremy


I am not sure that it is what scriptures teach, because you have left out "is".  You say that Jesus/resurection  is not in the past, and is not now but only future.  


Eph 2:1  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Eph 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Jerry, I do see your side too, I see a lot of logic to what you say, but I also see spiritual implications to "dead in Christ are made alive, raised up now".  


I'll take a breather, sit back and listen some more.  God bless.
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jerreye

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2006, 02:27:07 AM »

Hi Rocky,

Jesus IS the resurrection. He always WAS and always WILL be the resurrection. But HOW does this mean that YOU have ALREADY been resurrected? I don't understand.

2Tim 2:17-18
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (BTW: if OUR ressurection has NOT YET taken place, does this mean that Jesus is no longer the IS and WAS? I don't understand why that would be  :?: ) and overthrow the faith of some.


Again, just because Jesus "is, was and will be" THE resurrection, does not tell us that WE, the spiritual Jew (individually) have ALREADY been resurrected from the dead. How can this be if you still look in the mirror and STILL have corruptible flesh? We must PUT ON immortality...but WHEN does this occur? In some "WAS" resurrection? Some "IS" resurrection? OR, in a "WILL BE" resurrection?

1Cor 15:42
So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [Are you incorruptible yet, Rocky?]

1Cor 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[Do you have your spiritual body yet?]

Paul already warned us NOT to claim that the resurrection has ALREADY ("WAS") past. Because Jesus IS, WAS and WILL BE, does NOT tell us that OUR resurrection IS, WAS and WILL BE. We will only have it ONCE, and it is in the future.

Cheers!
Jeremy
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2006, 03:11:13 AM »

edit, deleted.
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2006, 03:57:38 AM »

Quote from: jerreye
Oh, but it isn't It is a spiritual resurrection.

There is a physical body (which we have NOW) and there is a spiritual body (when does this happen?). Do you now posses your spiritual body, Rocky, or will this happen in the future, at THE resurrection?


are we not a many membered spiritual body, with the head being Christ??Are we not the body of Christ??  Seems to me to be a spiritual body.
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hillsbororiver

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #88 on: June 18, 2006, 10:37:29 AM »

Doesn't one need to be born before they can die and be resurrected? I do not see scripture equating "born in spirit" and" resurrection" pertaining to the conversion from carnal life to spiritual life.

When I did a word search on E-sword I found resurrection primarliy as either what Christ actually experienced or references to belief in that experience, not that we have been resurrected, no we have been reborn, become a new creature in His Spirit.

Return and resurrect are close to synonymous both relate to "bringing something back" if I have never been to Africa how can I return to Africa, I must have been there (born) and left (die) before I can return (resurrected) there.

Resurecting a career would imply you had to have a career to begin with, resurrecting a reputation means you had a reputation previously, a new person has to ESTABLISH a reputation (life) then lose  it (die) then trust that it will be returned/resurrected at the appointed time.

Joe

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat, as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
 
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
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hillsbororiver

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #89 on: June 18, 2006, 10:50:22 AM »

Quote from: rocky
Quote from: hillsbororiver


.....Christ was very much alive in spirit (our example) during His time on earth, yet He experienced physical death (unless you do not believe He really "died" for our sins) He experienced the sleep of death, but will anyone argue he was not of the Spirit?


Joe


Joe, was Christ's death physically what we have to physically go through in order to to be resurrected, or was Christ's physical death a representative of our spiritual death/death to self.  A shadow of the spiritual in us???  

So many things that happened during Christ's walk on the earth were physical events that have spiritual implication to us, ie: healing the sick, casting out demons, making lame walk, making blind sea, deaf hear etc.  

Seems we could also look at the physical death of Christ as this too????




 Hi Rocky, why must this be an either/or situation? How about both? Was Christ in need of a spiritual conversion before His death? No, He was perfect, but He trusted the Father to return Him to life, isn't this one of the things that baptism represents as well? A trust that we will be returned to life? Spiritual conversion is not resurrection it is being born again, born in spirit, being made (a process) unto perfection (not made perfect), the resurrection is receiving an immortal, incorruptable spiritual body like His body. Although He was perfect and spiritual in His walk on earth He still died and was resurrected.

Much of scripture has more than one application, it is richly textured and true on so many levels.

Joe

Joh 13:15  For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Joh 13:16  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #90 on: June 18, 2006, 10:51:57 AM »

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Doesn't one need to be born before they can die and be resurrected? I do not see scripture equating "born in spirit" and" resurrection" pertaining to the conversion from carnal life to spiritual life.

When I did a word search on E-sword I found resurrection primarliy as either what Christ actually experienced or references to belief in that experience, not that we have been resurrected, no we have been reborn, become a new creature in His Spirit.

Return and resurrect are close to synonymous both relate to "bringing something back" if I have never been to Africa how can I return to Africa, I must have been there (born) and left (die) before I can return (resurrected) there.

Resurecting a career would imply you had to have a career to begin with, resurrecting a reputation means you had a reputation previously, a new person has to ESTABLISH a reputation (life) then lose  it (die) then trust that it will be returned/resurrected at the appointed time.

Joe

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat, as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
 
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


Cool Joe, never seen it that way.  this came to mind, reading your verses.

Rom 7:9  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Jam 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Rom 7:4  Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(to me married is union, one with Him, He is resurrection, Christ in us is resurrection)

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
 
Rom 7:6  But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[/quote]

I don't believe the resurrection is past, but i'm beginning to believe that it is now, a process (not a one time event) of Christ revealing himself to those he chooses to.  To me, Christ=Resurrection.  The Revelation of Christ in us=Resurrection.
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rocky

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #91 on: June 18, 2006, 11:09:47 AM »

Definitions of resurrection.  

G386
ἀνάστασις
anastasis
an-as'-tas-is
From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

G1454
ἔγερσις
egersis
eg'-er-sis
From G1453; a resurgence (from death): - resurrection.

G1815
ἐξανάστασις
exanastasis
ex-an-as'-tas-is
From G1817; a rising from death: - resurrection.


I see what yu mean even more Joe, thanks.
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hillsbororiver

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #92 on: June 18, 2006, 11:15:06 AM »

Quote from: rocky
I don't believe the resurrection is past, but i'm beginning to believe that it is now, a process (not a one time event) of Christ revealing himself to those he chooses to.  To me, Christ=Resurrection.  The Revelation of Christ in us=Resurrection.


Rocky, I agree we are going through a process as those in the past did and those yet to come will, but that process is growing (living) in His spirit, developing (maturing) the fruits of the spirit (and manifesting those fruits in our lives).

Joe
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hillsbororiver

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #93 on: June 18, 2006, 11:16:22 AM »

Quote from: rocky
Definitions of resurrection.  

G386
ἀνάστασις
anastasis
an-as'-tas-is
From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

G1454
ἔγερσις
egersis
eg'-er-sis
From G1453; a resurgence (from death): - resurrection.

G1815
ἐξανάστασις
exanastasis
ex-an-as'-tas-is
From G1817; a rising from death: - resurrection.


I see what yu mean even more Joe, thanks.
 

Rocky,

You are very welcome my Brother,

Joe
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chrissiela

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2006, 01:01:02 PM »

jerreye,

I never said that you said that the resurrection is past. I understood your point.

My point was that no one here has said it is past and that is the accusation being made.

Chrissie
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chrissiela

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2006, 01:19:58 PM »

Quote from: jerreye
Oh, but it isn't It is a spiritual resurrection.

There is a physical body (which we have NOW) and there is a spiritual body (when does this happen?). Do you now posses your spiritual body, Rocky, or will this happen in the future, at THE resurrection?


jerreye,

What about the "inner man" that is born of the spirit and that walks after the spirit and not after the flesh?

Paul says that we are NO LONGER in the flesh, as those who are IN THE FLESH cannot please God. ( Rom 8 )

What does it mean "the redemption of the BODY"? Or to have our MORTAL bodies quickened? What does it mean to have this mortal PUT ON immoratlity and this corruption PUT ON incorruption. This is addressing something that we "put on"... not something that we "take off".

We are not waiting to be "unclothed"; we are waiting to be "clothed upon". (2 Cor 5)

Blessings,
Chrissie
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Daniel

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #96 on: June 18, 2006, 02:33:33 PM »

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption[/u] of the transgressions that were under the first testament[/b], they "which are called" might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.[/b]

Heres words to think about as to how the definition of these are used elsewhere in scripture to convey the same thought .

Redemption

1) a releasing effected by payment of ransom (The effectual working of His power, Christ of effect or to no effecct?)

a) redemption[/b], deliverance[/u] (From?)

b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom (Liberation? Set free? for Liberty?)



Ephesians 1:14 Which is "the earnest of our inheritance" until"the redemption" of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1) a preserving, a preservation (preserving body soul and spirit?)

2) possession, one's own property[/u] (not our own?)

3) an obtaining (called to obtain?)

2Thes 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of[/b] the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when "his glory" shall be revealed, "ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. (where is His glory revealed?)

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Phil 3:21 Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto "his glorious body", according to the working "whereby" he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that "your body" is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Thes 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

1Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.[/u]

1Peter 1:23 "Being born again", not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John 1:13 "Which were born", not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If then being born of incorruptible (because corruptible cannot inherit incorruptible) where is this shown as occuring?

And if Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God but above declares that though (through carnal eyes we are) why does the verse seem to ignore the obvious and speak to the otherwise? It is not acknowledging these things as we would normally understand it. To the contrary it appears.

If and when MORTAL "PUTS ON" Immortality, what would that "look like"? Seems corruptible "PUTS ON" incorruptible, and the verse above acknowledges a birth to the same effect.

The Creature was subject to vanity and was in bondage to corruption (elsewhere saying of corruption one has escaped the corruption of the world through lust). What then does "that" mean if one has been "liberated" within the bounds spoken of concerning the NEW Creature verses THE Creature. One seems subjected in hope the other "liberated". Sounds an alot like the a releasing effected by payment of ransom defined within the word of "redemption".

Just some things to consider, that He who IS "The Resurrection" who always IS hath delivered (from so great a death) He doth deliver and will yet deliver. Look also at "delivered" as a word pertaining to redemption aas well. In Christ in whom these things be of. Both in past tense (was) present tense (is) and future tense (will be) in relation to what He is made unto us for. He hath power or He does not. His power works in the present or it does not. He IS or He simply was and will be but would that not be holding to a form of godliness denying His power and Him who IS? Admonished that we must believe HE "IS".

Just a few things to ask oneself thats all

Peace

Daniel
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chrissiela

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2006, 02:36:47 PM »

Quote
The resurrection has NOT taken place. Paul makes it clear that it is in the future.


Paul walked “as though� he has not already attained the resurrection of the dead (Phi 3:12), as though he were still striving for it, that he MIGHT ATTAIN it. That does not mean that he has NOT attained it; it means that he doesn’t “count� himself as having already attained it (verse 13). And HE tells US ALSO to “be thus minded�.

Because what did Jesus say?

    Joh 9:41  Jesus said unto them,
If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.[/list:u]

Paul knew and understood that we must endure to the end; that we are running “a race� and that there would be many who would “fall away� or be “lead astray�; that wolves would come in to devour the flock.

So at what point can someone say “I have reached the goal�? At what point can someone (even Paul) say “I have attained�?

At NO point!! It is all by the will and the power of God.

He even tells us:

    Phi 3:16  Nevertheless,
whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.[/list:u]

What Rule? Walk “as though� you HAVE NOT already attained, either were already perfected. Count NOT yourself to ALREADY have apprehended. In other words... endure to the end.

Very much like what Jesus said: If you say that you can see, your sin REMAINS.

He goes on to point out that the Lord will change “our vile body�, that it may be fashioned after His glorious body.

The Son of God if being formed IN US… IN these “vile bodies�. We are not being “unclothed�, we are being “clothed upon�. (2 Cor 5)

Yes, one day we will all die physically and rid ourselves of this body of flesh, this body of death. But Christ did not come to tell us how we can have life LATER. HE came to GIVE US LIFE NOW. Because unless we eat of HIS flesh and drink of HIS blood, we have NO LIFE IN US.

Christ came TO THE DEAD, to bring LIFE. What has that to do with the PHYSICALLY dead?

He used physical healings and physical resurrections as “examples� of spiritual truths.

The blind are made to see; the deaf are made to hear; the lame are made to walk; and THE DEAD ARE RAISED. He performed all those miracles physically to indicate the miracles that He would perform spiritually, by the power of the Holy Spirit, after His crucifixion and resurrection.

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. That is why whether was wake or sleep we live TOGETHER WITH HIM. That is how the tares and the wheat grow TOGETHER UNTIL HARVEST. That is why Christ died and was resurrected and revived… so that He would be Lord of BOTH the living and the dead. (Not the PHYSICALLY DEAD, those who have “no life in them�; those who “sleep�, the “tares�.)

Paul said that the DEAD in Christ shall rise first. How does this apply to the elect who are PHYSICALLY DEAD, when the scriptures tell us that the last will be FIRST and the first will be LAST and that at the time of harvest THE TARES WILL BE GATHERED FIRST?

The “dead in Christ� that RISE FIRST are the “tares�; those that sleep. Paul said that WE will NOT PREVENT “those that sleep�. He's not talking about those who are PHYSICALLY dead... he's talking about those who also remain who have not passed from death unto life; those who are not a part of the first resurrection, receiving life now... passing from the NIGHT into THE DAY.

    1Th 4:13  But
I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (they have no hope, because they are 'dead', 'asleep'... though physically alive.)

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.[/list:u]

Them that are “asleep� are not physically dead people; they are they who are walking in darkness, not having passed from death unto life, not knowing the love of God or one another.

And “those who are ALIVE and remain� (those who are dead ALSO “remain�) will not prevent them; for they will be caught up first (the tares are harvested FIRST; Mat 13:30). THEN “those who are alive and remain" will be caught up together with them.

As I see it now, the last trump has already begun to sound and the dead are being raised to life. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST resurrection (those who pass from death unto life NOW) for the second death will have no power over them. For they will be kings and priests and shall reign with Christ a thousand years in His kingdom.

Jesus said: “my kingdom is NOT of this world�.

And what of this?

    Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and
the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.[/list:u]

The book of Revelation is about the revelation or revealing of Christ... who comes as a thief IN THE NIGHT.

The things that are written in the book that we are to KEEP, we are keeping NOW. And the promises that are made "to those who overcome" are being fulfilled now, as I see it.

How else can you explain how the TARES are harvest first. If you claim the elect are resurrected first?

Didn’t the Jews miss the coming of their Messiah because they were looking for a physical kingdom? How is our looking for a physical kingdom, with a hope of being made literal kings and priests in it any different?

And how else can you explain:

    Mat 13:30  
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/list:u]

That fits perfectly together with what Paul said about those who are ASLEEP (or the DEAD in Christ) shall RISE FIRST... THEN those who are ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be caught up together with them.... if you understand that BOTH categories of people are PHYSICALLY alive, some are "awake" (living in THE DAY) and some are "asleep" (walking in THE NIGHT; those who sleep sleep at night).

    1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that,
whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.[/list:u]

Both the wheat and the tares grow together til harvest. The tares are harvested first. Please someone explain to me how that can be if the resurrection is yet future and the "elect" are resurrected first, long (a symbolic thousand years) before the tares/wicked?


Blessings,
Chrissie
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bobf

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2006, 05:11:10 PM »

Chrissie,

How can the gathering and burning of the tares be considered a resurrection?   They are gathered out of the kingdom, not into it.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

The pharisees do not precede the publicans & sinners into the kingdom.  The publicans & sinners precede and lead the pharisees into the kingdom.
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jerreye

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Eternal Life not promised?
« Reply #99 on: June 18, 2006, 05:30:45 PM »

Chrissie, you wrote:

Quote
jerreye,

I never said that you said that the resurrection is past. I understood your point.

My point was that no one here has said it is past and that is the accusation being made.

Chrissie


Noone said this directly. Plus, I didn't make a direct "accusation" either. In fact, if you read the post I made a comment in brackets stating that I was NOT accusing him of stating that.

However, it WAS indirectly claimed that the "resurrection" "IS" and...."WAS" (WAS is a PAST-TENSE word that means ALREADY HAPPENED). Do you believe that THE resurrection spoken of in Revelation has ALREADY HAPPENED to YOU? Paul says NO. So do I.

I have stated a number of times in my posts that we have the EARNEST (down-payment) of God's SPIRIT, NOT the fullness. We are NOT FULLY spiritual at this time, even though SIN no longer has complete dominion over you, you STILL sin, Chrissie, do you not?

Do you think you are fully spiritual at this time? Are you not going to die? When your body dies, what happens to "the real YOU" directly after? Are you immediately in God's pressence? Isn't there a LITERAL resurrection from your DEATH condition that you WILL be in after your body expires? Will you not "sleep the sleep of DEATH"?

Perhaps we are both not understanding each other!  :shock:

Here is what I believe...I believe that we have God's spirit, but ONLY in down-payment. We are spiritually sustained by that spirit for the remainder of our physical life. There WILL be a time that we all physically DIE. We will SLEEP the sleep of death and will be called OUT of that death condition (Hades) in the RESURRECTION (which is where we receive the FULLNESS, which includes a new spiritual body), which has NOT yet taken place. It will take place in the future.

Isn't this what you believe? If not, what part?

God Bless,
Jeremy
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