> General Discussions
Eternal Life not promised?
jerreye:
Hi Rocky,
Jesus IS the resurrection. He always WAS and always WILL be the resurrection. But HOW does this mean that YOU have ALREADY been resurrected? I don't understand.
2Tim 2:17-18
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (BTW: if OUR ressurection has NOT YET taken place, does this mean that Jesus is no longer the IS and WAS? I don't understand why that would be :?: ) and overthrow the faith of some.
Again, just because Jesus "is, was and will be" THE resurrection, does not tell us that WE, the spiritual Jew (individually) have ALREADY been resurrected from the dead. How can this be if you still look in the mirror and STILL have corruptible flesh? We must PUT ON immortality...but WHEN does this occur? In some "WAS" resurrection? Some "IS" resurrection? OR, in a "WILL BE" resurrection?
1Cor 15:42
So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [Are you incorruptible yet, Rocky?]
1Cor 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. [Do you have your spiritual body yet?]
Paul already warned us NOT to claim that the resurrection has ALREADY ("WAS") past. Because Jesus IS, WAS and WILL BE, does NOT tell us that OUR resurrection IS, WAS and WILL BE. We will only have it ONCE, and it is in the future.
Cheers!
Jeremy
rocky:
edit, deleted.
rocky:
--- Quote from: jerreye ---Oh, but it isn't It is a spiritual resurrection.
There is a physical body (which we have NOW) and there is a spiritual body (when does this happen?). Do you now posses your spiritual body, Rocky, or will this happen in the future, at THE resurrection?
--- End quote ---
are we not a many membered spiritual body, with the head being Christ??Are we not the body of Christ?? Seems to me to be a spiritual body.
hillsbororiver:
Doesn't one need to be born before they can die and be resurrected? I do not see scripture equating "born in spirit" and" resurrection" pertaining to the conversion from carnal life to spiritual life.
When I did a word search on E-sword I found resurrection primarliy as either what Christ actually experienced or references to belief in that experience, not that we have been resurrected, no we have been reborn, become a new creature in His Spirit.
Return and resurrect are close to synonymous both relate to "bringing something back" if I have never been to Africa how can I return to Africa, I must have been there (born) and left (die) before I can return (resurrected) there.
Resurecting a career would imply you had to have a career to begin with, resurrecting a reputation means you had a reputation previously, a new person has to ESTABLISH a reputation (life) then lose it (die) then trust that it will be returned/resurrected at the appointed time.
Joe
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat, as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: rocky ---
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---
.....Christ was very much alive in spirit (our example) during His time on earth, yet He experienced physical death (unless you do not believe He really "died" for our sins) He experienced the sleep of death, but will anyone argue he was not of the Spirit?
Joe
--- End quote ---
Joe, was Christ's death physically what we have to physically go through in order to to be resurrected, or was Christ's physical death a representative of our spiritual death/death to self. A shadow of the spiritual in us???
So many things that happened during Christ's walk on the earth were physical events that have spiritual implication to us, ie: healing the sick, casting out demons, making lame walk, making blind sea, deaf hear etc.
Seems we could also look at the physical death of Christ as this too????
--- End quote ---
Hi Rocky, why must this be an either/or situation? How about both? Was Christ in need of a spiritual conversion before His death? No, He was perfect, but He trusted the Father to return Him to life, isn't this one of the things that baptism represents as well? A trust that we will be returned to life? Spiritual conversion is not resurrection it is being born again, born in spirit, being made (a process) unto perfection (not made perfect), the resurrection is receiving an immortal, incorruptable spiritual body like His body. Although He was perfect and spiritual in His walk on earth He still died and was resurrected.
Much of scripture has more than one application, it is richly textured and true on so many levels.
Joe
Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
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