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Author Topic: Does God cause all things to happen?  (Read 23599 times)

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rdogs

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Does God cause all things to happen?
« on: September 22, 2009, 08:01:42 PM »

Does God cause all things to happen, even the bad, the tragic, and the horrific? Does nothing happen, that God didn't cause? I know that God is never surprised, but did he cause it? 

Obviously, I need clarification.

Thanks,

Gary 
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daywalker

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 08:31:49 PM »


Yes.

God ultimately causes everything to happen.That doesn't mean that He 'directly' does everything, but He is the cause of everything, because He is the Creator, Author and Originator of everything that exists--including things like darkness, evil, Satan, flowers, light, Jesus...

For an in-depth study on this topic and other related ones, as well as a ton of Scripture, read Ray's Lake of Fire Articles. The answers to your questions are in there...

http://bibletruths.com


Daywalker  8)

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Marky Mark

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »

Does God cause all things to happen, even the bad, the tragic, and the horrific? Does nothing happen, that God didn't cause? I know that God is never surprised, but did he cause it? 

Obviously, I need clarification.

Thanks,

Gary 


Hello Gary.
Email to Ray.Hope it helps.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5146.msg40669.html#msg40669

Dear Dean:  Regarding the Forum's question as to whether God has a free will or not:
 
"Free will" is not a topic of Scripture. Humanity absolutely does not have a free will/free choice disposition. All thoughts and actions have a cause. God, however, is the First Cause. God answers to no one and no one dictates or causes God to think or do anything--all Protestant and Catholic prayers to the contrary included.  However, we are told in the Scriptures who "God cannot lie," for example or why God never "changes his mind."  This is a governing factor to God's disposition, but it is not an outside force. Here is how God thinks and operates everything in the universe:
 
"In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works [operates] ALL THINGS AFTER THE  C-O-U-N-S-E-L  OF  H-I-S   O-W-N  W-I-L-L"  (Eph. 1:11).
 
God be with you,
Ray



Peace...Mark
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Kat

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2009, 11:49:31 PM »


Hi Gary,

Here are a few emails that should help your understanding on this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3570.0.html ------------

There are many things that God has created that are not a part of His "heart." Evil is not a part of God's heart. The death of the wicked is nothing something God cherishes in His heart. Sin is not something that God endorses, yet He created all the circumstances for its use.
   

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=224.msg1868#msg1868 ---

I have explained this many times, but there are few who can understand it.  God created man subject to VANITY (failure). God made mankind that way. It is absolutely stupid for theologians to deny it. God plainly tells us this in Rom. 8:18:25.

Man has naturally a natural mind, a mind of flesh, called in Scripture the "carnal mind" and it naturally HATES God and cannot keep His law (Rom. 8:7).

But if you or anyone does not even believe these Scriptures, why go further?  God made man is testerone. His natural inclination is to have sex with pretty women--OFTEN.

Then God turns around and tells man to not have sex with pretty women AT ALL--only in marriage.  God doesn't MAKE OR FORCE man to desire sex with women. Man desires that all on his own. Some men desire sex with children. God doesn't MAKE OR FORCED men to have sex with children.  Some men do it naturally. Are you following me?

God could stop all men from having sex with children.  But He doesn't. That's because God has a plan for the human race that involves humans doing things so horrible, that they will eventually learn to never trust their own heart and mind again. They must have faith and trust in God through His Holy Spirit.

All men would have sex with little children, if they grew up under the same circumstances as the men who do have sex with little children. This is a sobbering thought that few theologians alive have ever contemplated for more than 2 and one half seconds.  And women have their particular natural inclination to commit horrible sins.  This is God's creation, not mine. This is God's plan with humans, not mine.  I can justify God in all His ways. Most can't. God will rectify and reconcile all things that has ever been committed.
 

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#suffer --------------------------------

Blame denotes being WRONG or doing BAD or SINNING. God NEVER sins! A sin is a MISTAKE, a MISSING OF THE MARK, a FALLING SHORT of the ideal, whatsoever is not OF FAITH, and LAWLESSNESS.

God is not to BLAME for any of these. God is, however, responsible for EVIL and SINNERS, and everything else in this universe, seeing that it was He Who created it.

It does no good to hide one's head in the sand and pretend that God has nothing to do with EVIL. I heard Billy Graham teach the whole world from the national cathedral after 9/11 that, "God is not the author of evil." But of course, Billy Graham doesn't use the Scriptures for his authority, but rather the unscriptural traditions of men:

Isa. 45:7,  "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good], and CREATE EVIL;  I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS."

God most certainly IS the creator of EVIL!

Contrary to the pagan and unscriptural traditions and heresies of Christendom, God IS responsible for ALL, because "ALL IS OF GOD" (Eph. 1:11, Rom. 11:36, II Cor.5:18), Etc.

You can't quote a Scripture that states that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and therefore conclude that God is opposed to anyone ever dying. God Himself makes WAR IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Have you never read ALL of the Bible:

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL AND GOOD?" (Lam. 3:38).

"...an experience of EVIL hath God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Translation).

"Or has not the potter [GOD] the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet, on for DISHONOR?" (Rom. 9:19-25).

"...I [GOD] will bring EVIL from the north, and a GREAT DESTRUCTION" (Jer. 4:6).

"...Hear, O earth:  behold, I [GOD] will bring EVIL upon this people..." (Jer. 6:19).

"And he said, I [the lying spirit] will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets... and He [GOD] said, ...GO forth, and DO SO" (I Kg. 22:22).

"He [GOD] turned their heart to HATE HIS PEOPLE..." (Psa. 105:25).

"...Thus said the Lord; Behold, I FRAME EVIL AGAINST YOU, and devise a device against you..." (Jer. 18:11).

"O LORD, why has THOU MADE US TO ERR from thy ways, and HARDENED OUR HEART from thy fear?" (Isa. 63:17).

"...so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until he have destroyed you..." (Josh. 23:15).

"...shall there be  EVIL in a city, and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?" (Am. 3:6).

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts... go and SMITE Amelek... DESTROY... SLAY both man and woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING..." (I Sam. 15:2-3).

These may not be verses for Sunday school children, but they are Scripture for the mature.

God "SCOURGES every son that He receives." If you know anything about "scourging" you know it is quite severe. Job's afflictions were QUITE severe, our Apostle Paul's afflictions were QUITE severe.

God created EVIL, and God uses EVIL. But, He uses it for a GOOD AND HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE! "Evil" has nor moral bias. Evil is only a SIN when men use evil against other men. When God uses it, it is NO sin.

http://bible-truths.com/email3.htm#evil -----------------------------

There are billions and billions of people that God has not yet saved. Your questions is more basic than just why didn't God save those in the twin towers.

All of such things are examples of evil. God created evil for a purpose. So naturally He will not make evil inoperative at every turn in the road or there would have been no purpose in creating it in the first place.

Evil serves many noble purposes. One of which is a back drop for good. Good cannot be understood or certainly not appreciated without a backdrop of evil. Evil makes good appear even better and is certainly much more appreciated.

Evil is necessary for the production or development of good.  You cannot name one virtue that is not in some way produced by the resistance to some form of evil.

All knowledge is matter of contrast and relativity. One cannot know what light is unless he has been acquainted with darkness.  One has no conception of large unless he also knows of things that are small. Up is only up in relation to down. Life is the opposite of death, etc. To understand and fully appreciate all of these things, there are many necessary experiences to go through. God creates and puts us through these many things in the development of godly character.

All of these evils can be likened to the creation of a beautiful building. Ugly scaffolding is necessary in the construction of this building. It is ugly and serves no purpose other than in the actual construction of the building. When the building is completed, the scaffolding is torn down and discarded. It serves no further purpose. All evil will be discarded one day. And the last enemy, DEATH, will likewise be ABOLISHED FOR EVER (I Cor. 15:26) and God will "ALL in All"!!!


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3002.0.html ---------

God is not only Almighty, but He is also all wise, and all knowing, and LOVE.
    Love demands a recipient to partake of that love.  There is no  other God in
    the Universe or beyond the Universe.  God designed the family and children as
    a parable for us to understanding what His plan of creation is all about. God
    WANTS CHILDREN.  But God wants children LIKE HIMSELF, hence the
    purpose for the creation of humanity.
     
    Knowing "good and evil" is an essential part of "being like God,"  hence He
    creates good and evil for our experience. Failure, futility, sin and death is a
    part of the "knowledge of evil."  It is necessary that we fail in order that we
    may succeed.  God did not complete his plan of "making man in His Own Image"
    back in Genesis.  It was merely the first stage.  What we call "life" is God's
    plan for "making manking into His Own Spiritual Image."
   

May God be with you and grant you wisdom and understanding.

Sincerely,

Ray

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geokuhns

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 02:39:15 PM »

“Kats” post referencing Rays answers to emails on this subject is excellent. I want to add my thoughts as follows.

Does God cause everything to happen is the one subject of the Bible that I have meditated on more by far than any other subject. It has perplexed me and I think I have come to the following conclusion that is “key” in understanding the matter in my own mind. I could be wrong and if so I welcome correction.

There are two ways to state the question. They are:

1) God causes everything. If this were true then God would cause someone to sin such as raping and murdering a 8-year old girl. But we know this is not true because as Ray has taught us God does not cause anyone to commit sin. (James 1:13-15). God does directly cause some things to happen. But He does not cause man to sin.

2) God is the “cause” of everything that happens. This statement makes sense to me because it is God that has created human nature and universal laws. Combine the two and God knows the outcome of every situation before it happens. God does not “cause” a man to sin but God is responsible for everything that happens because He created the laws and human nature that leads to sin. However we are accountable for our sins because I believe that anyone that sins knows what he is doing is wrong.

I believe that God does not cause everything as stated in 1) above. But He is the cause of everything that happens and I believe the key is in the way it is stated and in this case it makes sense to me to say “God is the cause of everything that happens” rather than “God causes everything to happen.” There is a difference.

I hope I’m making sense.

George

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mharrell08

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 04:04:36 PM »

“Kats” post referencing Rays answers to emails on this subject is excellent. I want to add my thoughts as follows.

Does God cause everything to happen is the one subject of the Bible that I have meditated on more by far than any other subject. It has perplexed me and I think I have come to the following conclusion that is “key” in understanding the matter in my own mind. I could be wrong and if so I welcome correction.

There are two ways to state the question. They are:

1) God causes everything. If this were true then God would cause someone to sin such as raping and murdering a 8-year old girl. But we know this is not true because as Ray has taught us God does not cause anyone to commit sin. (James 1:13-15). God does directly cause some things to happen. But He does not cause man to sin.

2) God is the “cause” of everything that happens. This statement makes sense to me because it is God that has created human nature and universal laws. Combine the two and God knows the outcome of every situation before it happens. God does not “cause” a man to sin but God is responsible for everything that happens because He created the laws and human nature that leads to sin. However we are accountable for our sins because I believe that anyone that sins knows what he is doing is wrong.

I believe that God does not cause everything as stated in 1) above. But He is the cause of everything that happens and I believe the key is in the way it is stated and in this case it makes sense to me to say “God is the cause of everything that happens” rather than “God causes everything to happen.” There is a difference.

I hope I’m making sense.

George


I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.

Rom 8:20-21  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Here, Paul tells us that God made humanity subject to vanity (futility...in other words sin). The Lord purposely created mankind too weak to resist sin. This is a cause which has a direct effect in the lives of every human being.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Marky Mark

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 04:28:09 PM »

Quote
I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.

Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



Peace...Mark
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 04:42:27 PM by Marky Mark »
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mharrell08

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 05:26:42 PM »

Quote
I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.

Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



Peace...Mark


Thank you Mark, these scriptures testify of the effect of mankind being subjected to sin...but the initial cause of mankind being subjected to sin is of God. These scriptures from James do not contradict the ones from Paul in Romans 8.

Humanity is drawn away by it's own lust, but Who created them that way? Cause & Effect...there is no effect without a cause. The original question of this thread was 'Does God cause all?' The answer is Yes, as All is of God...God is the initial Cause in every Effect in the Universe.


Marques

P.S. I was going to post an excerpt from Lake of Fire series 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html), but that wouldn't do it justice...the whole paper should be read in full for those who seek more understanding on 'how' God causes all Evil.
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Marky Mark

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 08:28:54 PM »




Quote
Thank you Mark, these scriptures testify of the effect of mankind being subjected to sin...but the initial cause of mankind being subjected to sin is of God. These scriptures from James do not contradict the ones from Paul in Romans 8.

Humanity is drawn away by it's own lust, but Who created them that way? Cause & Effect...there is no effect without a cause. The original question of this thread was 'Does God cause all?' The answer is Yes, as All is of God...God is the initial Cause in every Effect in the Universe.


Marques

P.S. I was going to post an excerpt from Lake of Fire series 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html), but that wouldn't do it justice...the whole paper should be read in full for those who seek more understanding on 'how' God causes all Evil.

Yes Marques ,God does cause all things.We are in total agreement.Scripture does not contradict.

My point was this verse---Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Sorry if my post caused any confusion.



Peace...Mark
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rdogs

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2009, 09:12:14 PM »

Thanks to all for responding to my question. It looks as if I have lot more reading to do, but thanks be to God, I have time to do it.

Gary
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9440geoff

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 11:07:19 AM »

Hi Gary,

In the following verses God not only tells us that He is going to send His evil judgements, but also tells us why:

Eze 14:21  For so says the Lord Jehovah: How much more when I send My four evil judgments on Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the destroying beast, and the plague, to cut off man and beast from it.
Eze 14:22  Yet, behold, there shall be left a remnant in it that shall be brought out, sons and daughters. Behold, they shall come out to you, and you shall see their way and their doings. And you shall be comforted concerning the evil that I brought on Jerusalem, for all that I have brought on it.
Eze 14:23  And they shall comfort you when you see their way and their doings. And you shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, says the Lord Jehovah.
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cjwood

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 08:31:23 PM »

very good find geoff, very good find.

claudia
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darren

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 03:11:55 AM »

Eze 14:21  For so says the Lord Jehovah: How much more when I send My four evil judgments on Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the destroying beast, and the plague, to cut off man and beast from it.

Ray always says we have to read the (words) in the scriptures. In this scripture that Geoff posted it uses the word evil. The Lord says When (I) send (MY) four (EVIL) judgments. God's says MY EVIL judgements which sounds to me that God is claiming these 4 evil judgement as HIS own, coming out of Himself. Would it not be a total contradiction of Gods character? Scripture tells us God is love. There;s no evil IN God. HE (uses) evil for His divine purposes. He uses Satan for evil purposes but God never claims to posses evil in Himself. Am I missing something? Am I reading too much into this?  Is this a bad interpation? My Bible uses the word (SEVERE) judgments. I can see severe judgements. not evil. Or am I just over analyzing this??

                                         Darren
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 03:36:06 AM »

Darren...just talking 'language' here, not Theology.  The term "Evil" in English does not always have a moral connotation.  This verse is a good example of that.  "...the  sword, and the famine, and the destroying beast, and the plague..." are 'evils' in that sense.  You could name more.  Death, headaches, poverty, etc.  These things are not necessarily morally 'evil' like murder or other gross sins.  So, yes, I think you may be putting too fine a point on it.  Remember where sin comes from.

I hope that helps a bit.
 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

F@lgn0n

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 07:33:49 AM »

Darren, just curious bout sumin: where in the Scripture does it state that there is 'no evil IN God'?
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darren

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 02:49:30 AM »

I;m no good at quoting scripture If I quote a scripture you can bet it took me alot of time to find it. Still I have never heard any scripture saying God has evil in Him. This would be a contradiction of the scriptures that tell us that God IS love. Yes God created evil and He uses evil for divine purposes but He has no evil IN Him.

Yea Dave. like I said I probable just didn't understand. Since I have been listening to Ray's audios these last yrs he always says we have to really read and listen to the words in the scriptures, they tell us more than what we think. I have been really trying to understand the words that make up the scriptures. In eze 14:21 The Lord uses the word MY evil judgements. God;s judgements are not evil but fair and just. like I said I don't know much about quoting scripture. It take me forever look these things up. You pointed out that the sword, famine, destroying beast and the plague are (evils) in a sense. Yes I agree.

                                               Darren
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Roy Martin

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2009, 09:14:03 AM »

Here I go again round and round.
 Am I ever going to understand this topic? How long did it take for most of you to get this?
God made us carnal then says don't be carnal, and we are accountable when we are carnal.
 How are we accountable for the lust in our heart and mind? How can we do it of our own when we were created that way. What does accountable mean? If one is held accountable for his or her actions, then doesn't that make us responsible for something from a choice we make that God intended for us to make in the first place.
This is a very complex subject for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one. A lot of people say they have it, but do they really? I am not saying.. that I don't believe it; I'm saying I don't understand it, and in no way could explain it to someone interested without getting them confused.
If I build a beautiful house and put a rotten board in the main support structure knowing it will collapse eventually, then I am responsible and accountable. Not only that, but now I have to go back and build it back up and make it better.
 I have always been an observer of nature; animals, birds, plants, etc.
Humming birds are very interesting. There is always one that is very greedy. I have feeders in different areas in my yard, and this one guards all of them trying to keep the others away. I used a water hose to run it off, but another took it's place. Suddenly like over night they all started feeding at the same time with no more greediness; well they still bickered with each other, but without one being dominant. I finally realized that they were about to migrate. They were eating like little hogs.
 I could see us in them; the natural thing I mean. They were created to do what they do, and they can't help it. Yes! I know we are humans and have choice, but we, just like the humming bird and all creation are not responsible for what we do.
 I want to see what those that see it and understand it do. Maybe if I could understand how we on our own get lust in our heart and mind or thoughts that we know are wrong. I have thoughts that I don't know where they came from nor do I want them, but they just keep coming back. If I act on a thought that I can't get rid of that I don't know where it came from or how it got there, I feel like someone built me with a rotten board destined to fall but I am accountable? I don't get it the way I want to have it.
Usually the one responsible is the one held accountable. This is what confuses me the most.
  Peace
   Roy
« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 10:27:43 AM by Roy Martin »
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odinpop

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2009, 11:43:16 AM »

1Sa 16:23  And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
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mharrell08

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Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2009, 11:49:03 AM »

Hello Roy,

Try not to become frustrated with spiritual truths that you have trouble understanding. Instead give God all glory & thanksgiving for the ones you DO UNDERSTAND. A good servant that is faithful with a little brings a reward similar as the servant faithful in much (Luke 19:12-19).

Here are a few helpful email replies from Ray:

Email reply from Ray (http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm):

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

    "When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,

Ray



Email reply from Ray (http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm):

Dear Vince:

Thank you for your email and question.

There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.

   1.

      People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins.   They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy.  The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF.  God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering.  Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.
   2.

      We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS.  Think of sin as DIRT.  It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.

      Sincerely,

      Ray




Hope this helps,

Marques
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Does God cause all things to happen?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2009, 11:51:06 AM »

Here I go again round and round.
 Am I ever going to understand this topic? How long did it take for most of you to get this?
God made us carnal then says don't be carnal, and we are accountable when we are carnal.
 How are we accountable for the lust in our heart and mind? How can we do it of our own when we were created that way. What does accountable mean? If one is held accountable for his or her actions, then doesn't that make us responsible for something from a choice we make that God intended for us to make in the first place.
This is a very complex subject for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one. A lot of people say they have it, but do they really? I am not saying.. that I don't believe it; I'm saying I don't understand it, and in no way could explain it to someone interested without getting them confused.
If I build a beautiful house and put a rotten board in the main support structure knowing it will collapse eventually, then I am responsible and accountable. Not only that, but now I have to go back and build it back up and make it better.
 I have always been an observer of nature; animals, birds, plants, etc.
Humming birds are very interesting. There is always one that is very greedy. I have feeders in different areas in my yard, and this one guards all of them trying to keep the others away. I used a water hose to run it off, but another took it's place. Suddenly like over night they all started feeding at the same time with no more greediness; well they still bickered with each other, but without one being dominant. I finally realized that they were about to migrate. They were eating like little hogs.
 I could see us in them; the natural thing I mean. They were created to do what they do, and they can't help it. Yes! I know we are humans and have choice, but we, just like the humming bird and all creation are not responsible for what we do.
 I want to see what those that see it and understand it do. Maybe if I could understand how we on our own get lust in our heart and mind or thoughts that we know are wrong. I have thoughts that I don't know where they came from nor do I want them, but they just keep coming back. If I act on a thought that I can't get rid of that I don't know where it came from or how it got there, I feel like someone built me with a rotten board destined to fall but I am accountable? I don't get it the way I want to have it.
Usually the one responsible is the one held accountable. This is what confuses me the most.
  Peace
   Roy



Hello Roy.

CLV
Revelation 4:11  Worthy art Thou, O Lord, our Lord and God, To get glory and honor and power; For Thou dost create all, And because of Thy will they were, and are created."

CLV
Colossians 1:16 for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,


The thing made can never be greater than, or as great as, the One who made it.

Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with. All is of and for our Father and that means whatever short comings that we as human beings have to deal with on a physical or spiritual level must be in accordance with the will of the Father.

There are many things in my own mind that I have to deal with on a daily basis,[as we all do],but honestly speaking, whatever the Father deems necessary for His end purpose is fine and dandy by me. Whether I fully understand it or not.


Hope this helps some. :)

Peace...Mark
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