> General Discussions
Does God cause all things to happen?
geokuhns:
The subject of “Does God cause all things to happen” can be mind bending. The posts that have been generated are so inspiring because they show how God has opened our minds to understand things that the rest of the world thinks to be foolishness.
I want to add some clarification to my earlier post with the following statements which I have learned from Ray’s teachings. I believe them to be true but if not please advise.
1) God is the cause of everything that has happened or will happen in the future. (All is of God).
2) The “Cause” of everything was initiated by God in the beginning. (.........I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning.........” Isa. 46:9-10)
3) The “beginning” was when God created Jesus Christ. "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God," (Rev. 3:14)
4) God has pre-knowledge. Therefore God, at the “beginning”, knew everything that would occur from the beginning, in the future, concerning mankind because of A) the carnal nature He would instill in mankind and B) The immutable laws He would create. He knew then that far into the future a man living in Florida would kidnap a little girl, rape her and bury her alive. God did not have to make or force this man to do this sin. But because of the man’s carnal nature (God’s responsibility) and God’s immutable laws and circumstances God knew this would happen.
5) As mentioned in previous posts God does not make or force mankind to sin and I believe that with my whole heart but God does dangle a huge carrot in front of us. Then the carnal nature kicks in. Our only hope is Jesus Christ living His life in us. “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.” (Gal. 2:20)
The previous posts on the subject have been very inspiring and have explained in detail that God created evil for the purpose of creating good. It is extremely hard at first for our minds to comprehend how good could come out of the hideous crime described above but just as it is written, “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love Him.” (I Cor. 2:9). For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God.” (Rom. 14:11) :)
daywalker:
--- Quote from: NoviceBeliever on September 30, 2009, 11:19:20 AM ---
6 That they may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is a limit apart from Me. I am Yahweh Elohim, and there is none else."
Not to jack your response, daywalker, but this part just stuck out to me...does anyone have any other witnesses to this scripture? Thanks NB
--- End quote ---
Hey NB,
Yea, that part of the translation is a little awkward, I never caught it before... ??? Here's a few other versions:
RSV: Isa 45:6 that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
ROTHERHAM: Isa 45:6 That men may get to know. From the rising of the sun And from the west. That there is none besides me,—I, am Yahweh, and there is none else:
CEV: Isa 45:6 Now everyone from east to west will learn that I am the LORD. No other gods are real.
Daywalker 8)
Roy Martin:
Ray says,
But if you or anyone does not even believe these Scriptures, why go further? God made man is testerone. His natural inclination is to have sex with pretty women--OFTEN.
Then God turns around and tells man to not have sex with pretty women AT ALL--only in marriage. God doesn't MAKE OR FORCE man to desire sex with women. Man desires that all on his own. Some men desire sex with children. God doesn't MAKE OR FORCED men to have sex with children. Some men do it naturally. Are you following me?
God could stop all men from having sex with children. But He doesn't. That's because God has a plan for the human race that involves humans doing things so horrible, that they will eventually learn to never trust their own heart and mind again. They must have faith and trust in God through His Holy Spirit.
All men would have sex with little children, if they grew up under the same circumstances as the men who do have sex with little children. This is a sobbering thought that few theologians alive have ever contemplated for more than 2 and one half seconds. And women have their particular natural inclination to commit horrible sins. This is God's creation, not mine. This is God's plan with humans, not mine. I can justify God in all His ways. Most can't. God will rectify and reconcile all things that has ever been committed.
My question is if all is of God, and I do believe that is true, then how can we have desires all on our own.?
If we can desire things of our own and act on them with a choice that isn't free, but the right choice because all is of God whether the choice be good or bad, then how can we have the freedom to have our own desires when we know in our mind and heart that they are bad and yet we don't have the power to remove them without God.
I just can't see where we can have any desire of our own since we were created that way.
I said in my earlier post to this topic that this is one of the most complex things for me to understand. I think the truth of the matter is that I wish I didn't know this truth. It makes me feel helpless and like a puppet. I feel like any choice I make is not a wrong choice because I am not in control. If I could make a choice about anything of my own then that would be the same as free will, wouldn't it?
I am so uncomfortable with this truth. It makes me frustrated and helpless and a lot of other emotions that seems as if tossed tossed into a storm.
Desires: Called out to God when I didn't believe in Him, Seek Him, have faith in Him, Love Him and my enemy's and everyone. These desires are not of my own and I can not remove them of my own, but Ray says we of our own desire women. Am I reading this wrong?
I have God on one shoulder giving me good desires, and Satan on the other shoulder giving me bad desires, and all is of God. Am I wrong about this?
I cling to the truths that Ray has revealed to us by the power of God. Why has red flags gone up about this one? I am praying for understanding.
Peace
Roy
Kat:
Hi Roy,
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
First of all as we know that God is sovereign, then that should be the foundation of your understanding concerning Him. He possesses supreme power and authority and nothing happens apart from Him and only by His power does anything even remain in existence. So that is the bases of His being responsible, "in Him ALL things consist" or hold together.
Now He has worked our a brillant plan for the human race, we're in a difficult part of it right now, but all will have salvation and in the end. Now that is the only way this creation can happen, is by His power that He will carry out this plan just as it is happening for us. We have no power to do anything of ourselves, we are just dirt or clay in the Potter's hand. But do you see that by Him giving all humans this experience in life, He is creating individuals, how great is that. Out of all humans that will live no two are exactly alike. It's His plan that all these experiences (good and bad) will have an end result "in bringing many sons to glory" (Heb. 2:10). But we have to go through this life, act it all out before it is a reality. We are actually doing all this that's happening in our life, even if it is caused, so we are accountable.
Act 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
v. 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
v. 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring.'
Very few at this time have been given this understanding about His sovereignty and man having no free will, sure it's a hard concept, but we should seek and embrace our God who is doing this wonderful work.
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
We are the privileged few who He is giving the understanding of truth now, but all will eventually come to this same knowledge.
Isa 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night,
Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
For when Your judgments are in the earth,
The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Hope this helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Roy Martin:
Thank you Kat. See! when I read all that you quoted, I understand, or at least I think I do. I still can't see where we of our own can have any kind of desire. I might have just had a glimpse of accountability and the purpose of it. That's a good start.
I would like to take Marques advice and just be thankful for the things I do understand, but its not happening.
Roy
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