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Does God cause all things to happen?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: George Kuhns on September 23, 2009, 11:39:15 AM ---“Kats” post referencing Rays answers to emails on this subject is excellent. I want to add my thoughts as follows.
Does God cause everything to happen is the one subject of the Bible that I have meditated on more by far than any other subject. It has perplexed me and I think I have come to the following conclusion that is “key” in understanding the matter in my own mind. I could be wrong and if so I welcome correction.
There are two ways to state the question. They are:
1) God causes everything. If this were true then God would cause someone to sin such as raping and murdering a 8-year old girl. But we know this is not true because as Ray has taught us God does not cause anyone to commit sin. (James 1:13-15). God does directly cause some things to happen. But He does not cause man to sin.
2) God is the “cause” of everything that happens. This statement makes sense to me because it is God that has created human nature and universal laws. Combine the two and God knows the outcome of every situation before it happens. God does not “cause” a man to sin but God is responsible for everything that happens because He created the laws and human nature that leads to sin. However we are accountable for our sins because I believe that anyone that sins knows what he is doing is wrong.
I believe that God does not cause everything as stated in 1) above. But He is the cause of everything that happens and I believe the key is in the way it is stated and in this case it makes sense to me to say “God is the cause of everything that happens” rather than “God causes everything to happen.” There is a difference.
I hope I’m making sense.
George
--- End quote ---
I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.
Rom 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Here, Paul tells us that God made humanity subject to vanity (futility...in other words sin). The Lord purposely created mankind too weak to resist sin. This is a cause which has a direct effect in the lives of every human being.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.
--- End quote ---
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Peace...Mark
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on September 23, 2009, 01:28:09 PM ---
--- Quote ---I think I understand what you are saying George...the only thing is, God does 'cause' men to sin. But He does not 'force' them to.
--- End quote ---
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
Thank you Mark, these scriptures testify of the effect of mankind being subjected to sin...but the initial cause of mankind being subjected to sin is of God. These scriptures from James do not contradict the ones from Paul in Romans 8.
Humanity is drawn away by it's own lust, but Who created them that way? Cause & Effect...there is no effect without a cause. The original question of this thread was 'Does God cause all?' The answer is Yes, as All is of God...God is the initial Cause in every Effect in the Universe.
Marques
P.S. I was going to post an excerpt from Lake of Fire series 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html), but that wouldn't do it justice...the whole paper should be read in full for those who seek more understanding on 'how' God causes all Evil.
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Thank you Mark, these scriptures testify of the effect of mankind being subjected to sin...but the initial cause of mankind being subjected to sin is of God. These scriptures from James do not contradict the ones from Paul in Romans 8.
Humanity is drawn away by it's own lust, but Who created them that way? Cause & Effect...there is no effect without a cause. The original question of this thread was 'Does God cause all?' The answer is Yes, as All is of God...God is the initial Cause in every Effect in the Universe.
Marques
P.S. I was going to post an excerpt from Lake of Fire series 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html), but that wouldn't do it justice...the whole paper should be read in full for those who seek more understanding on 'how' God causes all Evil.
--- End quote ---
Yes Marques ,God does cause all things.We are in total agreement.Scripture does not contradict.
My point was this verse---Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Sorry if my post caused any confusion.
Peace...Mark
rdogs:
Thanks to all for responding to my question. It looks as if I have lot more reading to do, but thanks be to God, I have time to do it.
Gary
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