> General Discussions
Does God cause all things to happen?
Dave in Tenn:
It's very easy to recognize that God is in control of History, or to see the working of God in somebody else's life in such a way that we cannot imagine it being different than it was. It's not as easy to place ourself in that history and believe that God is just as much in control of US as he has been in the history of all those 'other people'. He does it by causing the entire chain of events (like those outlined by Daywalker) and billions of other ones that we'll likely never fully understand (the mind and ways of God).
Is that fair? Of course it is. It's fair on the face of it because this whole shebang is HIS creation, including us! He can do whatever He wants with it. It's also fair, because it can't be any different than the way He knew from the beginning it would unfold and end. Once He decided to create, nothing is left to chance or to a will other than His own which He's had from the beginning.
We may believe that we can conjure up some 'choice' that hasn't been absolutely pre-determined by all the billions and billions of circumstances which led up to that choice. We may even believe that everything flows along as it has been foreknown, until God steps in in some special way to 'change' what He had already decided and knew to be what was going to happen (including our choices).
The truth is, THE most 'Pre-Ordained' event/personage in the history of the world is also the event/personage God has set up from the beginning to be the cause to the end of what He has ordained from the beginning. Is there a more prophesied or promised or preordained event than the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world"? The God who could do anything does THAT. He IS that. Nothing can undo that.
That event/personage, in turn, is the most powerful CAUSE of people's choices since creation itself. He's going to work the power of His death and resurrection through every man; first Himself, then the firstfruits, etc. etc.
The sovereignty of God is part of the salvation of all. They can't be seperated, scripturally. Nobody will be saved against their will. Nobody will be saved by their will. All will be saved by the will of God--no matter what it takes--to the glory of God. That's the way I see it.
Don't be dismayed if you don't understand it all. I keep saying this, but it's really the way I think: If I could understand the mind and ways of God fully, I would cease to be impressed by Him. Believe the scriptures. Let God be true and every man a liar. Including me. :D
cjwood:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on October 01, 2009, 09:10:11 AM ---
Email to Ray, hope it helps.
So why get upset and angry over stupid and evil things that God INTENDED TO BE IN THE FIRST PLACE? Because God also gave us EMOTIONS, and brains, etc. He WANTS us to hate evil and love righteousness even though it was God Himself Who created them BOTH. There is a great PURPOSE in it all. And all will turn out just great in the end.
We need a spirit of wisdom to trust God that He knows EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING DOWN TO THE VIBRATION OF THE LAST ELECTRON.
The Roman saints asked Paul this same rhetorical question, only they, unlike most people, did realize that no one COULD go against God's intention. But they wanted to know, since this is true,
the fact that all that happens is according to God's intention (not necessarily His "will"--that is another subject. "Intention"--what DOES happen, is different from "will"--which is the end result after all the bad things that DID happen, NO LONGER happen).
Why does God blame people for things that He INTENDED that they do in the first place? Listen: "You will be protesting to me, then, 'Why, then, is He [God] still blaming [for us sinning]? for who has withstood His [God's] INTENTION?
O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded [that's us] WILL NOT PROTEST TO THE MOLDER [that's GOD], 'Why do you make me thus?'" (See Romans 9:12-25).
Paul then goes on to say that God has the RIGHT to do things as He pleases. Even making vessels of DISHONOR for a period of time to be used in exalting the vessels of HONOR.
--- End quote ---
roy, this email info will hopefully be the next step in His giving you undertanding of this 'hump' you are desiring to get over.
claudia
Roy Martin:
Well today is a new day and finally after much prayer and reading and discussing this over with Silvia; I am at peace with this topic. I have struggled with this for six months or more. Yes! a big load has been lifted. I even think I can explain it to someone else. Wow! this feels good to say the least.
Peace
Roy
cjwood:
8) 8) :) :) :)
claudia
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on October 02, 2009, 06:15:54 PM ---Well today is a new day and finally after much prayer and reading and discussing this over with Silvia; I am at peace with this topic. I have struggled with this for six months or more. Yes! a big load has been lifted. I even think I can explain it to someone else. Wow! this feels good to say the least.
Peace
Roy
--- End quote ---
Roy,glad to hear that the Lord has opened your heart and mind to one of His Grand Truths.The journey to the Truth can be difficult at times, but to the one who keeps knocking, the rewards are blessings indeed.
Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will
be opened to you..
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens
the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
Peace...Mark
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