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Suffering in this Life
lauriellen:
i have been re-reading through this thread this morning and am still wrestling with a thought that i have dared not even put into words, but, now i am just going to put it out there and hopefully get some answers.......many many times in Rays writings and audios he has said something to the effect that God is love, and would it be love if He were torturing my grandmother in hell for eternity?....that God is love and hell is the exact opposite of that love......that is really easy for me to grasp. the LOVING, MERCIFUL GOD.
the problem i wrestle with is the SUFFERING i see in THIS LIFE! isn't that also the exact opposite of the love? how can God be showing me love, when He caused my sons death? how can God be showing Jennie love when He caused her to be raped at 3 years old? and on and on it goes.....i am NOT having a pitty party for myself (tho He slay me, yet i will trust Him)....i just don't understand how to reconcile this "love" and the caused sufferring i see around me......it is hard to love and trust someone who you know may smack you down, or the ones you love at any time....... and yes, i know we are His creation to do with what He will, but i guess i just don't understand that kind of love.....i am looking at this with my human eyes, and i just know that most parents would NEVER even think of causing their children this kind of pain....
help me understand this. i think it was easier to grasp that we 'caused' this sufferring ourselves by our choices and sin.
thanks,
lauriellen
aqrinc:
Hi Lauriellen,
Here below, is one answer from Scripture.
Heb 12: 1-17 (LITV)
1 So therefore we also, having so great a cloud of witnesses lying around us, having laid aside every weight and the easily surrounding sin, through patience let us also run the race set before us,
2 looking to the Author and Finisher of our faith, Jesus, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, "and sat down at the right" of the throne of God. Psa. 110:1
3 For consider Him who had endured such gainsaying of sinners against Himself, that you do not grow weary, fainting in your souls.
4 You did not yet resist unto blood, wrestling against sin.
5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which He speaks with you, as with sons, "My sons, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor faint while being corrected by Him.
6 For whom the Lord loves, He disciplines, and whips every son whom He receives." Prov. 3:11, 12
7 If you endure discipline, God is dealing with you as with sons; for who is the son whom a father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are bas-tards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore, indeed we have had fathers of our flesh as correctors, and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and we shall live?
10 For they truly disciplined us for a few days according to the thing seeming good to them; but He for our profit, in order for us to partake of His holiness.
11 And all discipline for the present indeed does not seem to be joyous, but grievous; but afterward it gives back peaceable fruit of righteousness to the ones having been exercised by it.
12 Because of this, "straighten the hands" hanging alongside, "and the enfeebled knees;"
13 "and make straight tracks for your feet," that the lame not be turned aside, but rather healed. Isa. 35:3; Prov. 4:26
14 Eagerly pursue peace and holiness with all, without which no one will see the Lord,
15 watching diligently that not any lack from the grace of God, that "no root of bitterness growing up" may crowd "in on you", and through this many be defiled; Deut. 29:18
16 that not any fornicator, or profane one, as Esau, who for one meal gave up his birthright;
17 for you know also that afterwards desiring to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place of repentance, although seeking it out with tears. Gen. 27:36-39
george :).
Marky Mark:
Hello lauriellen. :)
We do not know all things or all ways of our Creator.That is Gods plan for now. This does not mean that there is not purpose to creation and of the things that we as humans need to suffer through in order to become righteous sons and daughters of the Father. I believe that it is out of Gods Love for His creation that we must learn an experience of good and evil to make one humble to the ways of the Lord.
As difficult as what this life we experience in the flesh seems for the moment, I do not believe Gods Love for us is at fault.
Email reply from Ray. Hope it helps.
http://bible-truths.com/email6.htm#suffer
Dear Jake:
It is true that there are many mysteries that we do not understand. And yet, there is much that we do understand, at least in part.
God is GOOD. What IS good? How does anyone BECOME GOOD?
Take a very close look at ANY VIRTUE, Jake, and see HOW IT BECAME A VIRTUE! Is "truthfulness" a virtue if everyone always was and always will be "truthful?" No, because there is NOTHING TO COMPARE IT WITH! Is "patience" a virtue that one can buy at a department store? Can "patience" be developed and achieved QUICKLY AND WITHOUT DISTRESS? I think not.
There is nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING that we can come to understand as part of our knowledge, that is not understood by how that bit of knowledge CONTRASTS with OTHER pieces of knowledge. Everything that exists is only understood by contrasts. How does one know what "big" is if he doesn't know what "small" is, and vice-a-versa? How can we say something is rough if we don't have any concept of smooth? Up is only up in relation or contrast to down. Light is contrasted with darkness, etc., etc., etc.
Do you see where this is going? If we are to appreciate "good," it is essential that we have an experience of "EVIL." If we are to appreciate (I mean REALLY appreciate) LIFE, then it is essential that we ALL DIE!!!
And so, God in His infinite wisdom, has provided all of these things--we call it CREATION--so that mankind might experience all that is necessary to humble, educate, experience, and appreciate, the wonderful things that God has prepared for us.
All the ugly, evil, and misery of life can be likened to the scaffolding of a building. While creation of the new building is in progress, the scaffolding is an eye-sore, and serves NO PRACTICAL PURPOSE except the actual creation of the building. But, when the beautiful building is completed, we tear down the ugly scaffolding and throw it away--it serves no more useful purpose to our completed building, EVER. And so we read that even DEATH, the LAST ENEMY, will be ABOLISHED (I Cor. 15:26)!!
I hope this helps your understanding a little better.
Sincerely,
Ray
Peace...Mark
Akira329:
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
2Co 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
2Co 1:6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2Co 1:7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
2Co 1:8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Trust in God
Antaiwan
EKnight:
--- Quote ---i am looking at this with my human eyes, and i just know that most parents would NEVER even think of causing their children this kind of pain....
help me understand this. i think it was easier to grasp that we 'caused' this sufferring ourselves by our choices and sin.
thanks,
lauriellen
--- End quote ---
Lauriellen,
I understand what you are saying. I have wondered these things too. The scripture everyone has given you should be comforting but I understand how it may not be. It's one of those things that's easier said than done.
As you may or may not know, my son has been suffering through chemo and surgeries these past five months. He is such a good kid-never drank or smoked or did drugs like most kids his age(21)- and yet he ends up with cancer. As a parent, watching him suffer a seemingly undeserving trial, has been a trial itself. I remember saying to my husband "if this cancer brought Jack closer to God, would you be more willing to accept it?" and we both agreed that the suffering would be worth it. But so far, that has not been the outcome so now we are left wondering what was the point of all this? There could be a million reasons for Jack's suffering and for ours and I believe that is the hard part-not knowing what God's plan is and maybe never seeing or understanding the whys of this present world. And that's where faith and hope need to take over. I know, again, it's easier said than done. I'm not sure there are any words or scriptures that are able to comfort us at times like this, only God in His infinite wisdom knows and only God can grant us the comfort we need and only in His time.
So pray fervently for understanding, hope and faith. I pray God grants you your requests.
Eileen
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