''Word's Noise Pollution''

[acomplishedartis]

Hi,
I have a question, an observation and I am simply asking for some feed back. The main subject that I am concerned is about the phrase ''...I decided not to perceive anything among you...'' (1Cor.2:2).

1 And I, coming to you, brethren, came not with superiority of word or of wisdom, announcing to you the testimony of God,
2 for I decide not to perceive anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 And I came to be with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling,
4 and my word and my heralding were not with the persuasive words of human wisdom, but with demonstration of spirit and of power,
5 that your faith may not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(Concordant Version)

Here is some disclosure and more specific questions;

1 And I, coming to you, brethren, came not with superiority (excellency, advantage) of word (speech, saying) [ ''superiority of word''; What could he mean by these, here are some points that might could be:
a) He went with not complicated way of speech, talking as clear as he could, not trying to impress, using common and understanding phrases
b) He didn't made trick with words to persuade them, using 'logical fallacies'; statements that sounds like if they have evidence when in reality they don't. He didn't manipulate them with pure emotional speech to convince them.
c) He didn't went in arrogance and trying to impress them to feel good with him self]

or of wisdom [ ''wisdom'' I can think that what he means on here is that he tried to share with them according with what they where able to digest, as they where ''babes'' in comparison to him], announcing to you the testimony (mystery) of God,

2 for I decide not to perceive anything among (in) you [These is the part that I am concerned the most, Why would he say these? here, some thoughts:
a) since his visits where very temporal and since he have much to share, spending time on these things could take what he have to say out focus
b) he didn't care about the many relative things that where happening among them, since these where changing all the time or he didn't want to get any false impressions of them because of fast talking on relative matters that could have not the enough contexts and evidences to be objective, because the short time or for any other reason
c) He might had his mind full of godly thoughts, travel plans, advances and deep words full of meanings to share, that ''anything'' (maybe he meant personally stuff [jobs, hobbies, buying expenses, personal agendas, irrelevant stories]) among them would distract him, move his train of thoughts, unnecessarily stayed on his mind]

DOES THESE MEANS THAT WE ALSO SHOULD ABSTAIN OF ''NOISE'' TALKING, OF TOO RELATIVE TEMPORARILY SAYINGS THAT JUST FILL THE UNCOMFORTABLY SILENCE MOMENTS?
WOULD HE MEANT TO DO THESE JUST AMONG THE BROTHERS? BECAUSE IT WOULD BE HARD TO DO IT AMONG NOT BROTHERS, MORE DIFFICULT FOR US AT THESE PREDOMINATING SOCIETY WHERE SHOOTING PERSONAL QUESTIONS IS ALMOST A COMMON DENOMINATOR AMONG CITIZENS.
OR COULD HE MEAN WITH THESE SAYING (verse2) SOMETHING ELSE?  

except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. [''Jesus Christ and Him crucified''; the basics, the milk, what brought them together? (There is some info about these on the part11 of ''the lake of fire series'')]
3 And I came to be with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling, [he was not afraid of them, neither of his enemies nor of death, Was he in fear of ''the beast'' the ''O man'', or of something else? Why the trembling? Was it literal?]
4 and my word and my heralding were not with the persuasive words of human wisdom [''persuasive words of human wisdom'' i think that these is what all denominations, religions, and fraudulent organizations and institutions in common have], but with demonstration of spirit and of power, 5 that your faith may not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

whatever impute, I would appreciate it...

[mharrell08]

Moises,

Paul was not saying anything about refraining from 'noise pollution' or 'talking just to be talking'...you're assuming for no reason because Paul explains HIMSELF.

Here is the Contemporary English Version:

1 Cor 2:1-5

(v1) Friends, when I came and told you the mystery that God had shared with us, I didn't use big words or try to sound wise. (v2) In fact, while I was with you, I made up my mind to speak only about Jesus Christ, who had been nailed to a cross.
(v3) At first, I was weak and trembling with fear. (v4) When I talked with you or preached, I didn't try to prove anything by sounding wise. I simply let God's Spirit show his power. (v5) That way (here's the reason why) you would have faith because of God's power and not because of human wisdom.

He further explains this point in the same passage:

1 Cor 2:11-16 [KJV]

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Dave in Tenn]

Mat 12:33 "Either make the tree ideal and its fruit ideal, or make the tree rotten and its fruit rotten, for by its fruit the tree is known.
Mat 12:34 Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.
Mat 12:35 The good man out of his good treasure is extracting good things; and the wicked man out of his wicked treasure is extracting wicked things.
Mat 12:36 Now I am saying to you that, for every idle declaration which men shall be speaking, they shall be rendering an account concerning it in the day of judging.
Mat 12:37 For by your words shall you be justified, and by your words shall you be convicted.

Primarily, this whole discourse follows what Christ said about blashpemy against the Spirit, a topic that's caused enough confusion through the centuries.


Dave's paraphrase:  What's in your heart is what comes out of your mouth.  What you are on the inside determines your actions.  You are and will be judged by your words/actions because they reveal what is in your heart, whether good or wicked. 

Only God is good.  The heart of man is deceitful and desparately wicked.  I am crucified with Christ.  Nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me.

You could make up a law about how many words you are allowed to say before they turn into 'wickedness', but what good is that if, whenever you go to the Well of your heart to speak, all you find is wicked things to say because your heart is a treasury of wickedness?  Get your heart changed for good, and when you make a withdrawal from the treasury, it will be good.


Eph 4:29 Let no tainted word at all be issuing out of your mouth, but if any is good toward needful edification, that it may be giving grace to those hearing."
Eph 4:30 And do not be causing sorrow to the holy spirit of God by which you are sealed for the day of deliverance.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness and fury and anger and clamor and calumny be taken away from you with all malice,
Eph 4:32 yet become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously among yourselves, according as God also, in Christ, deals graciously with you."

How do you obey that?  I think for the mature in Christ no commandment is necessary, and for those rebelling against the Spirit, no commandment is sufficient.  Most of us are in the middle somewhere.  It's certainly a very important thing to consider and a growing in Grace and the Fruit of the Spirit to constantly test ourselves against the Character of Christ. 

We should certainly avoid bitterness and fury and anger and clamor and calumny and all malice.  But "becoming kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously among yourselves, according as God also, in Christ, deals graciously with you..." requires, well, actually God, in Christ, dealing graciously with us!  That's something we can't summon up by will or know in all cases what IS "needful edification that gives grace".

I reckon a lot of us tend to talk too much.  That doesn't seem as important to me, from Scripture, as what we are saying, why, and how.

You asked for thoughts.  These are some o' mine.   

[Marky Mark]

Dave,thank you for the very insightful post and Scripture .


Peace... Mark

[acomplishedartis]

Hi Dave in Tenn

I agree with you, we are caused always by our deepest motivations (by what is in our hearts) to say and to do what we usually say and do. There is also many wicked quiet people that talk much wickedness on their own.

About Mat. 12:36, I hope to don't been adding more confusion to the centuries, the verse says every idle ('argos':worthless, careless, useless) word (declaration), and yes, these includes blasphemy against the Spirit.

Here an allegory: If your car malfunction, it will bring pollution and noise. If you rather use a fine bicycle - no pollution, no noise.

I think that I can understand what you meat when you said ''Most of us are in the middle somewhere.'' we are not perfect yet at all, God is the one who can change our heart for good. I guess we should try to let no worthless word/action issuing out of our mouth as it is in our extent to do it.

Does someone have some thoughts about these Paul's words?

3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. (1Cor. 4:3-5)

[mharrell08]

Does someone have some thoughts about these Paul's words?

3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. (1Cor. 4:3-5)

I think these additional scriptures before and after Paul' statements help in understanding his meaning:

1 Cor 4:1-7 [NASB]

v1  Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

v2  In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.

v3  But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.

v4  For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.

v5  Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

v6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

v7  For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?


Paul begins by stating that the apostles, disciples, himself are 'servants of Christ' and should be considered such (v1). He then states that, as stewards of the Lord, they are to be found trustworthy (v2). Paul says that being examined to be found trustworthy by them (the church) or by a judicial court are not a high enough standard...also because of this high standard, he does not even attempt to examine and justify himself(v3).

Paul continues in saying that though he is not aware of anything to deem him not 'trustworthy', the only One who can justify him is the Lord (v4). Paul says 'therefore' (or 'because of this') do not attempt to examine one another as though YOU could justify one person over another. When the Lord comes, He will bring that which is hidden to light and He, Himself, will justify us ('each man's praise comes from God') [v5].

Paul then states that he applies this spiritual truth to himself and Apollos for 'their sakes' ['Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ' (1 Cor 11:1)]; so that they (the church) does not go beyond what the Word of God commands and become 'arrogant' towards one another [again, not attempt to 'justify one person over another'...that is the Lord's job, not ours] (v6)

Paul asks for who has made any of you superior to one another [to attempt to justify someone] because what do we have [spiritual knowledge & understanding] that was not given to us? And since it was given, why do we boast [puff ourselves up & 'certain others'] as if it was from ourselves? (v7)


My thoughts are this is an excellent admonition from the apostle Paul and bring this passage to mind:

1 Cor 10:11-12  Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Thanks for bringing these scriptures to light Moises,

Marques

[Dave in Tenn]

That sounds prudent and mature, Moises.  It also called up additional scripture.

Ecc 3:1  To everything--a season, and a time to every delight under the heavens:
Ecc 3:2  A time to bring forth, And a time to die. A time to plant, And a time to eradicate the planted.
Ecc 3:3  A time to slay, And a time to heal, A time to break down, And a time to build up.
Ecc 3:4  A time to weep, And a time to laugh. A time to mourn, And a time to skip.
Ecc 3:5  A time to cast away stones, And a time to heap up stones. A time to embrace, And a time to be far from embracing.
Ecc 3:6  A time to seek, And a time to destroy. A time to keep, And a time to cast away.
Ecc 3:7  A time to rend, And a time to sew. A time to be silent, And a time to speak.
Ecc 3:8  A time to love, And a time to hate. A time of war, And a time of peace.
Ecc 3:9  What advantage hath the doer in that which he is labouring at?
Ecc 3:10  I have seen the travail that God hath given to the sons of man to be humbled by it.

I reckon one part of the travail that God gives to the sons of man to be humbled is to see what is so strongly bubbling up from our hearts and out of our mouths.  God help us to rejoice at the suffering He causes us to undergo like that.  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  Does it get any better than that?

[cjwood]

Ecc 3:4  A time to weep, And a time to laugh. A time to mourn, And a time to skip.

Does it get any better than that?

i don't think so dave.
btw, i really enjoyed reading this particular translation of that verse.  i love to skip...

thank you moises for the thread and all the Scriptures posted.

learning...always learning...

(gettin excited 'bout mobile!)

claudia