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Author Topic: The Illusion of Free Will  (Read 4570 times)

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EKnight

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The Illusion of Free Will
« on: October 30, 2009, 01:30:20 AM »

I just wanted to shared an excerpt from an essay my daughter wrote for her philosophy class.

Quote
      Separately from Skinner and Holbach, but while still in agreement, I disagree with free will’s existence. To clarify, I do believe that our decisions aren’t technically ours if something else outside of our control manipulated us into making them. I also believe Holbach’s position on free will.  However, I also contribute the lack of free will to the predetermination every person has. This deterministic view stems from my religious background. Before I knew any research behind the matter, I never thought it was possible that someone believing in God could also believe that everything presently happening around him or her was unbeknownst to God himself. I couldn’t fathom the notion that national disasters, terrorist attacks, petty thefts and murders occurring everywhere were surprising God at the same instant they were surprising me. How could someone put their faith in God, believe he were to be “all knowing” and not believe that He has total control over their decisions. Well, I dug deeper into the dilemma at hand and I approached my Mother with the subject.  She in turn scolded me and threatened to run the car off the road because it was going to happen whether she liked it or not.  As you can see, my mother was a devout Christian and refused to accept something the Catholic Church wasn’t teaching every Sunday at noon. She then said to me, “well if I don’t have free will what do I have?” Not exactly knowing myself, I replied, “I guess all we have is the illusion of free will.” Our decisions, painstakingly or even swiftly made as they are, it’s never actually ourselves making them. I believed it was God putting the decisions in my head, or the obstacles in my course, or causing the events to lead me to those decisions but it was never my own genuine thoughts. Little did I know, I was right and there was plenty of research by philosophers and religious observers to confirm my theory.  If Holbach says “madness is a state that depends upon the heat of the blood, not upon the will” I would further his example by saying “and God caused us to become mad by however it is we became mad.”  I believe we are controlled unwillingly by our environment and a million other factors, but I also believe our environment is controlled by God and thus, we are as well.

      While my personal theory is different from Holbach and Skinner, because neither of them attributes the lack of free will to God, they will agree that free will doesn’t exist. If you were someone who believes they have control over every decision they make then you’d be in agreement with Jean Paul Sartre and Simone DeBeauvoir. If you were someone who believes their lives are laid out before them, you’d be in favor of determinism along with me.  In the simplest possible way, I can only sum up my belief by saying “everything happens for a reason.”

Close enough, and the part about my driving off the road was slightly exaggerated but you get the point.  ;)  But it's true, she used the term "illusion of free will" to me several years ago.

Eileen
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cjwood

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 01:49:48 AM »

hmmmmmmmm, eileen,
have you ever shown your daughter any of ray's teachings on free will?  it seems she might be ripe to receive the truths which ray expounds on.  she is way ahead of where i was when i first was drawn to the bt website.  you should be very proud of her.

claudia
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Marlene

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 02:13:01 AM »

That, is just awesome. That, girl has more knowledge then those lost in Babylon. It would be fantastic if she were to read things on Ray's website.

In His Love,
Marlene
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 02:30:50 AM »

What she knows, the Spirit of God has shown her.  In the context of a Philosophy paper, that's as good a simple explanation of the Truth as any.  I'm glad you've regained control of the wheel.   :D  Just make sure her Philosophy professor doesn't pidgeon-hole her as a Calvinist.  His or her head may explode if he or she tries not to, however.

It's been way too long ago for me.  Even though I was a proud and determined Existentialist back then, now I don't even remember what that means.   ;D
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 11:39:58 AM »


Hi Eileen,

Your daughter has cracked one of the hardest concepts there is to grasp  8)  This gives you a like mined person (at least on this point) in your own household.   I hope you are able to use this as a stepping stone to discuss more truths  ;)

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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EKnight

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 08:57:48 PM »

Yes, she is intuitive.  She will be with my husband and I at the conference and is "considering" attending the actual conference.  She hasn't read anything here on her own I have thrown some stuff out there.  She and my son Jack have a pretty clear idea of what I believe.

Eileen
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EKnight

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 12:56:57 AM »

Quote
Just make sure her Philosophy professor doesn't pidgeon-hole her as a Calvinist.  His or her head may explode if he or she tries not to, however.

Dave, You seem to have a firm grasp of today's college professors.  And this one fits the bill.  The things my kids repeat that these professors say is very scary.

Eileen
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gmik

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 03:06:52 PM »

Eileen, that made for good reading!

My 3 kids are all college grads and what they said about their professors is cause for fear for our nation (if we did that sort of thing, but you know what I mean).
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9440geoff

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 08:14:19 PM »

Hi Eileen,

It would be good if your daughter knew the Scripture verses that prove the illusion of free will. She would then be able to refute any contention by profs or peers.

I'm praying that she joins you in the conference.

Geoff
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EKnight

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 10:50:14 PM »

Geoff,
Quote
It would be good if your daughter knew the Scripture verses that prove the illusion of free will. She would then be able to refute any contention by profs or peers.


I have those scriptures written in a notebook and she has read and heard me use them.  I'm not sure that she committed them to her memory but I believe she is at least aware that the bible backs her belief.

I am hoping she attends the sat. conference at least.

Eileen
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OBrenda

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 04:49:11 PM »

Very well written.  Does she know you shared this with us?

Looking forward to seeing you,
Brenda
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EKnight

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Re: The Illusion of Free Will
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 01:05:06 AM »

Yes, she knows I posted it here.  I asked her first.  She likes telling people it was she that first introduced me to the "illusion" of free will.  I only posted the religious belief portion of her paper that pertained to free will. 

This professor already tried to engage her in a debate using 911 and Jeannine is not too self-assured but from what she told me, she handled herself well. 

The only problem is is that even though she doesn't believe in free will, she still doesn't readily give all the glory to God.  One step at a time and in God's time.  :)

Eileen
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