> General Discussions
Do you believe in F R E E W I L L ?
acomplishedartis:
I would like to share a part of a writing I made a couple moths ago:
So how do the humans will works? First, people do not have free-will (a will that is free of any kind of influence, a will with No cause) I also used to think that we do, but I was wrong, very wrong. Humans are very easily persuaded by any feeling, sentiment and emotion; by desires that become thoughts, thoughts that become our will on regard to any matter. And all this happens very fast. It is just like when we can be able to follow rhythms, we know there are always patterns of certain times that we do follow automatically; when we play an instrument with harmony we can feel the rhythm, our senses get coordinated, and our thoughts and memories are being translated into movements.
The human will works just as the well known scientific principle of the law of cause and effect; nothing comes from nothing and everything does have a motive, a reason and a meaning!
Long before, the Time and the seasons where being measured by Priest-Astronomers whom used to take on account the position of the sun, the moon and stars, this knowledge was often used to control individuals; telling them what to do so that they would evoke or cause or bring certain season. Now days many individuals believe in luck, chaos and free will witch is often begging used against them to control them.
Not because we are not always aware of the cause of everything, it means that everything does not have a cause. Or could there be other options? Does people really can will things with out first desire them? Could they take willingly actions with out think about them first? Is there any other option left that doesn’t sound dumber than these? Anyone that knows very well all these fields understand very well how our wills are very limited. It seems greatly incredible to me how the majority of the people cheat themselves about these over and over again tons of times every day. Well… maybe not so incredible, since it is understandable that certain circumstances can make people feel that some individual’s behaviors have no excuse, and so they get these feelings, emotions and desires that make them think that we do have free will, however, the pattern stills there. The thing is that when we can’t understand something it is way more easily to ignore it.
Here is a clearer quotation about the main idea:
The seat of emotions and desires is the HEART. And God made the heart "exceeding WEAK." Man did not sin because he "freely willed" to sin, but because his heart was so exceedingly WEAK. That is why it takes next to nothing to persuade the heart of man to DESIRE SIN.
Jesus Christ Himself taught us that EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, BLASPHEMIES, ADULTERIES, etc., all start, begin, originate, proceed, out from THE HEART.
Once the heart senses a feeling or emotion, it begins to desire something. These very thoughts of desire emanate out from the heart, seeking fulfillment. At this point in the process the will is manifested. It now becomes the driving force within you to accomplish the thoughts and emotions of the heart. The will is not the original instigator in this chain of events; it is not even the second in line, but rather the third.
· The will of man has no power until first his heart DESIRES,
· Second these desires are formed into actual THOUGHTS,
· Then at this third stage the will purposes to find fulfillment for all that is coming out of the heart.
[L. Ray Smith, The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part A (bible-truths.com)]
There are not many the people who do not believe on the lack of this supposedly human power to be able to choose things with out a reason, motive, or cause. And yes, it is overwhelming just to grasp whatever we can of the real meaning of this truth, overwhelming as well as humbling. There is not neutral position; there is not such thing as half free will or anything like that. But you still can un-freely keep advertising your self about how you can supposedly control your own destiny.
aqrinc:
Hi moises,
I borrowed: Jesus Christ Himself taught us that EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, BLASPHEMIES, ADULTERIES, etc., all start, begin, originate, proceed, out from THE HEART.
for a twitter message, cannot attribute because it only gives me 140 characters. I did post a second tweet attributing it to BT.
george. ;D
E. Woods:
--- Quote from: Moises on November 13, 2009, 10:27:08 AM ---I would like to share a part of a writing I made a couple moths ago:
So how do the humans will works? First, people do not have free-will (a will that is free of any kind of influence, a will with No cause) I also used to think that we do, but I was wrong, very wrong. Humans are very easily persuaded by any feeling, sentiment and emotion; by desires that become thoughts, thoughts that become our will on regard to any matter. And all this happens very fast. It is just like when we can be able to follow rhythms, we know there are always patterns of certain times that we do follow automatically; when we play an instrument with harmony we can feel the rhythm, our senses get coordinated, and our thoughts and memories are being translated into movements.
The human will works just as the well known scientific principle of the law of cause and effect; nothing comes from nothing and everything does have a motive, a reason and a meaning!
Long before, the Time and the seasons where being measured by Priest-Astronomers whom used to take on account the position of the sun, the moon and stars, this knowledge was often used to control individuals; telling them what to do so that they would evoke or cause or bring certain season. Now days many individuals believe in luck, chaos and free will witch is often begging used against them to control them.
Not because we are not always aware of the cause of everything, it means that everything does not have a cause. Or could there be other options? Does people really can will things with out first desire them? Could they take willingly actions with out think about them first? Is there any other option left that doesn’t sound dumber than these? Anyone that knows very well all these fields understand very well how our wills are very limited. It seems greatly incredible to me how the majority of the people cheat themselves about these over and over again tons of times every day. Well… maybe not so incredible, since it is understandable that certain circumstances can make people feel that some individual’s behaviors have no excuse, and so they get these feelings, emotions and desires that make them think that we do have free will, however, the pattern stills there. The thing is that when we can’t understand something it is way more easily to ignore it.
Here is a clearer quotation about the main idea:
The seat of emotions and desires is the HEART. And God made the heart "exceeding WEAK." Man did not sin because he "freely willed" to sin, but because his heart was so exceedingly WEAK. That is why it takes next to nothing to persuade the heart of man to DESIRE SIN.
Jesus Christ Himself taught us that EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, BLASPHEMIES, ADULTERIES, etc., all start, begin, originate, proceed, out from THE HEART.
Once the heart senses a feeling or emotion, it begins to desire something. These very thoughts of desire emanate out from the heart, seeking fulfillment. At this point in the process the will is manifested. It now becomes the driving force within you to accomplish the thoughts and emotions of the heart. The will is not the original instigator in this chain of events; it is not even the second in line, but rather the third.
· The will of man has no power until first his heart DESIRES,
· Second these desires are formed into actual THOUGHTS,
· Then at this third stage the will purposes to find fulfillment for all that is coming out of the heart.
[L. Ray Smith, The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part A (bible-truths.com)]
There are not many the people who do not believe on the lack of this supposedly human power to be able to choose things with out a reason, motive, or cause. And yes, it is overwhelming just to grasp whatever we can of the real meaning of this truth, overwhelming as well as humbling. There is not neutral position; there is not such thing as half free will or anything like that. But you still can un-freely keep advertising your self about how you can supposedly control your own destiny.
--- End quote ---
I Have a question. If humans don't have a free will to choose to do good , What is the use of a judgment day?
EJW
aqrinc:
Hi EJW,
Great question You need to read:
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part A
The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part B
The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part C
The Myth of "Free Will" Exposed - Part D
Ray went to exhaustive lengths to teach on this subject, do yourself a favor and read it a few times. You will be glad when you are finished and get a real understanding.
george. ;D
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: EJW on November 13, 2009, 12:25:46 PM ---
I Have a question. If humans don't have a free will to choose to do good , What is the use of a judgment day?
EJW
--- End quote ---
So that the Lord will be glorified and given all the credit for His achievement, not us.
Isa 10:15 Does an ax claim to be more important than the one who swings it? Does a saw brag that it is better than the one who uses it? That would be like a stick swinging someone who picks it up! It would be like a war club waving the one who carries it!
2Co 10:17 But, "The one who brags should brag about what the Lord has done." (Jeremiah 9:24)
2Co 10:18 Those who praise themselves are not accepted. Those the Lord praises are accepted.
Eph 2:8 God's grace has saved you because of your faith in Christ. Your salvation doesn't come from anything you do. It is God's gift.
Eph 2:9 It is not based on anything you have done. No one can brag about earning it.
Eph 2:10 God made us. He created us to belong to Christ Jesus. Now we can do good things. Long ago God prepared them for us to do.
God created us bad, and He will make us good through judgment (correction). I mean you know, God can do that, He is God.
Its very important to know good and evil like God does, and thats what this life (in part) is all about, learning the difference between the two. Ray says its all about the contrast.
A lack of free will has nothing to do with choosing to do good.
George (aqr) gives good advice, you would do very well to read those papers.
Hope this helps
Peace, G.Driggs
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