Hi! I joined this forum because of this very question. Is it okay if I post here instead of making a new topic? I'm not sure how to know if I've fallen, or left my "first love". (I'm not even quite sure what my "first love" is.) I found about about this wonderful site through the Tentmaker site. Anyway, as I've been reading through Ray's LoF series, I've agreed with every word of it, but when I came to chapter 13 & 14, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I didn't understand it very well. I'm not sure what he means by falling away; to me, it means renouncing your belief in God or Jesus and doing something else, or leaving religion altogether. That has always been my worst fear. I was raised a very strict reformed Calvinist, so the "no free will" part didn't bother me too much, but it was still kind of a shock, because I always kind of believed in free will, because my church taught that only the "elect" will get to heaven, which God has already preordained. (So basically, God already decided to put most people in hell.) I couldn't accept that, so I believed that God would give everyone one chance, or something. I don't know, it wasn't scriptural, but to me, it was a lot more merciful.
I then started reading on the internet about hell. I have often worried, very much, that ether I had committed the "un-pardonable sin", or that I was just going to hell because I couldn't "believe enough". I was told by many people that all I had to do was believe, but sometimes, believing is the hardest thing you can ask anyone to do. Anyway, I found the Tentmaker site, and then this site. It's helped me so much, and I thank God every day that men like Ray Smith are here. But anyway, back to my first question, can anyone help me?
I also found this site in my search about hell called "New Wine for the End Times". That site still bothers me. (I don't want to look it up to post it, but you can Google it.) It's written by some hick from North Carolina, in it, he "refutes" universal salvation for his own his own doctrine, which is a weird mix of "free will" (He's VERY free will oriented.) Jewish "end times" and falling away/committing the un-pardonable sin/receiving the mark of the beast/rejecting God which is the way to hell. I've never seen anyone refute this guy, mostly because no one knows who he is, but if anyone could help me with that, that would be great.
I know this is a lot of questions, but I haven't been feeling okay in a long time. Last year, due to genetics, and my own fear and worry, I developed obsessive compulsive disorder. I would have very worrisome, obsessive thoughts. (Mostly about me going to hell, or... (I don't even like to type this.) Worrying that Satan was really god, or in charge, or something.) I'm still working to over come this, but I'm afraid God is angry with me about it. I've prayed countless times, asking him to forgive me for them, and asking him to help me. I found a good psychiatrist last year, and he helped me a lot, but I still get the thoughts about Satan, and they worry me.
Thank you all for listening.
Hello and welcome to the forum Lupac.
I'm not sure how to know if I've fallen, or left my "first love". (I'm not even quite sure what my "first love" is.)
Here are a few email replys from Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7112.0.htmlDear Heather: My "First Love" was my first desire to repent and come out of this world and follow God's way, which I then deserted to a large extent and went back into the world, and then repented and returned to my First Love. My Web Master formats and proof reads my material, and another good friend proof reads it. No one actually makes corrections to anything I teach. Some of our older material is being proof read by a Doctor who has volunteered. He has made many spelling corrections so far.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7618.0.htmlDear Reader: Quite to the contrary. Many have left their initial belief and acceptance of God and Jesus and have gone back into the world with a spiritually-minded vengeance! Thankfully, God recalls some out of that condition, as He has done with you. All we who have "left our First Love" have similar feelings about how stupid, and selfish, and carnal we became. But it is good to feel guilt and shame. These emotions help to continuously keep us from committing the same sins or to the same degree. We have to "COME OUT" of Babylon, and then we need to "STAY OUT." And the staying out is often as difficult as the coming out. The more we spiritually grow and understand, the more we see our shortcomings. It is good that God does not show us all of our sins all at once--it would be so over-powering and shameful, that we would have trouble facing another day. Glad that you have seen the Light.
God be with you,
Ray
Also from Rays paper on;
The Lake of Fire - Part XIV
The Beast Within
EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST
What an astonishing truth it is, that God CAUSES all those destined from the foundation of the world, to be chosen in Christ, that they should "fall away" from the Truth and "leave their first love" before they can be truly spiritually converted. Yet this is the plain declaration of Scripture.
Peter fell away:
"Jesus said unto him [Peter], Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, you shall deny me thrice [three times]" (Matt. 26:34).
All the apostles fell away:
"Then said Jesus unto them, ALL YE shall be offended because of Me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad" (Matt. 26:31).
"And they ALL forsook Him, and fled." (Mark 14:50).
Paul fell away:
"As for Saul [renamed Paul], he made havock of the church…" (Acts 8:3) [while at the very same time he was "blameless" in keeping the Law of Moses] (Phil. 3:6).
ALL the Churches in Asia fell away after being in full support of Paul’s ministry. First:
"The churches of Asia salute [greet] you…" (I Cor. 16:19).
Later near the end of Paul’s ministry:
"This you know, that ALL they which are in Asia be TURNED AWAY FROM ME…" (II Tim. 2:15).
Paul warned the Ephesian Elders about the "flock—church" falling away:
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock [the whole flock]." (Acts 20:29).
Jesus prophesied that all who will become overcomers will have first fallen away temporarily by leaving their first love:
"Nevertheless I have somewhat against you, because you [the seven-in-one golden candlestick church of God that is, was, and will be] have LEFT YOUR FIRST LOVE" (Rev. 2:4).
Jesus Himself calls this leaving of our first love, a falling away:
"Remember therefore from whence you ARE FALLEN, and REPENT…" (Rev. 2:5).
Whenever we "fall," we leave our "first love." For spiritual falling IS, LEAVING LOVE. Jesus said that when we leave our first love we are to ‘remember from whence we are FALLEN…’ Love itself has not failed us, but we have failed love, for true love is not capable of failure or falling:
"Charity [Old English for ‘love’] never fails…" (I Cor. 13:
.
Jesus reprimands us for "falling" from love in Rev. 2:5. Interestingly, the word translated "fails" in I Cor. 13:8 is the very same word translated "fallen" in Rev. 2:5. And so, "love never FALLS," but before we are saved, we will fall.
Why is it that this Scriptural truth is not taught in the Church? Simple: Most in the church have not as yet experienced "leaving their first love." Therefore, they are still deceived, and CANNOT see the beast within. They are still in the process of constructing their spiritual house upon the sand. Most will never see the beast in this lifetime.
ALL SCRIPTURE IS FOR OUR ADMONITION
Why should the Scriptures preserve for us the falling away of Peter, Paul, all of the disciples, all of Asia, and all of the church (Rev. 2:4), if none of these things pertain to us or none of these things will ever happen to us?
I have said many times in this series that there are "the called" and there are the "called AND chosen." We see it in every example: Jesus called Peter
"And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter… and He said unto them, Follow Me…" (Matt. 4:18-19),
and so Peter followed Jesus
"And they straightway left their nets, and FOLLOWED Him." (Ver. 20)
And so Peter followed Jesus for three and one-half years. But Peter was not converted:
"And the Lord said, Simon [Peter], Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and WHEN YOU ARE CONVERTED, strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32).
And later Peter denied Jesus three times in the same night!
The question presents itself: "If we truly had "love" why should we have to "fall" from it or "leave it" in the first place? Ah, herein lies one of the grandest Truths found in all Scripture!
From our first parents onward, God has always allowed men to believe that they are able of and by themselves (by their supposed phantom "free" will) to love God and be obedient to His laws. Despite God’s plethora of testimonies to the contrary, theologians and philosophers alike have taught mankind that they are indeed ABLE TO CHOOSE and, ABLE TO DO and to carry out that choice, because they have the "free will" within them to do so. What they have within them is a "beast" that is no more able to choose and obey God than any literal beast of the field.
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.htmlHope this helps...
Peace...Mark
Author
Topic: Falling away first. (Read 9856 times)