> General Discussions
Luke,Matthew,and the virgin birth
eutychus:
--- Quote from: alchemist ---
--- Quote from: eutychus ---
--- Quote from: alchemist ---
--- Quote from: eutychus ---its said the magi where alchemist.
--- End quote ---
there's a lot about alchemy they say.Some say moses sister was an alchemist
--- End quote ---
do you know anything about clear gold? white powder? manna? :wink:
--- End quote ---
I've went pretty deap into alchemy but some stuffs kinda fuzzy since there's a lot and I haven't looked into it that much lately,but yeah I know some about that stuff and lets try and make this thread stay on topic.Don't want to slip into alchemy.
--- End quote ---
my apologies.
carry on.
almah TWOT - 1630b
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
al-maw' Noun Feminine
Definition
virgin, young woman
of marriageable age
maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (TWOT
alchemist:
--- Quote from: eutychus ---
--- Quote from: alchemist ---
--- Quote from: eutychus ---
--- Quote from: alchemist ---
--- Quote from: eutychus ---its said the magi where alchemist.
--- End quote ---
there's a lot about alchemy they say.Some say moses sister was an alchemist
--- End quote ---
do you know anything about clear gold? white powder? manna? :wink:
--- End quote ---
I've went pretty deap into alchemy but some stuffs kinda fuzzy since there's a lot and I haven't looked into it that much lately,but yeah I know some about that stuff and lets try and make this thread stay on topic.Don't want to slip into alchemy.
--- End quote ---
my apologies.
carry on.
almah TWOT - 1630b
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
al-maw' Noun Feminine
Definition
virgin, young woman
of marriageable age
maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (TWOT
--- End quote ---
Bethulah and 'Almah
There are two important words in Hebrew that can be translated into English as "virgin": בתולה, bethulah, and עלמה, `almah. Isaiah uses `almah in the Masoretic Text, and so conservative Christians have tried to demonstrate that the word unambiguously means "virgin", while other scholars, Christian, Jewish and otherwise, have tried to demonstrate that the word means simply "young woman", without any necessary connotation of virginity. `Almah occurs seven times in the Hebrew Bible and usually seems to mean a young woman of marriageable age (e.g. Genesis 24:43), but is never used in the Old Testament of anyone who was not a virgin; bethulah is accepted in modern Hebrew usage as the characteristic Hebrew word for virgin. However, it is qualified by a statement ‘neither had any man known her’ in Gen. 24:16, and is used of a widow in Joel 1:8. In the Ugaritic tablets, btlt was used of the goddess Anath who was a consort of Baal; and in other records, the Aramaic counterpart of betûlah is used of a married woman.
[edit]
Parthenos
The fact that there is no Hebrew tradition of virgin birth — Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, and Hannah were infertile women who miraculously gave birth late in life — is consistent with the view that the Messiah would be unique, and Christian apologists argue that many first century Jews, including Jewish converts to Christianity, used the Septuagint, which explicitly uses the word παρθενος (parthenos) to mean "virgin": the root from which we derive words such as parthenogenesis.
Some scholars, however, claim that the Septuagint does not use parthenos very precisely, as it translates at least three different Hebrew words by it: bethulah, "maiden/virgin"; `almah, "maiden/virgin"; and נערה, na`arah, "maiden, young woman, servant". The meaning of the word parthenos in the Septuagint is sometimes expanded in a way not seen in the Isaiah of the (albeit centuries younger) Masoretic texts:
Genesis 24:16 And the damsel [parthenos = Hebrew na`arah] was very fair to look upon, a virgin [parthenos = Hebrew bethulah], neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.
Judges 21:12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins [parthenous = Hebrew bethulah], that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.
Additionally, the Greek-English Lexicon edited by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott lists other meanings for the word:
παρθενος, parthenos, I. 1. maiden, girl; virgin, opp. γυνη gynê, "woman". 2. of unmarried women who are not virgins, Iliad 2.514, etc. 3. Parthenos, hê, the Virgin Goddess, as a title of Athena at Athens. 4. the constellation Virgo. II. as adj., maiden, chaste. III. as masc., parthenos, ho, unmarried man, Apocalypse 14.4.
Finally, there is archaeological evidence that Jewish speakers of Greek used the word parthenos elastically; Jewish catacombs in Rome identify married men and women as "virgins," and some have suggested that in this case the word was used to call attention to the fact that the deceased was someone's first spouse (although it is notable that this usage is from several centuries before the translation of the Septuagint [citation needed]). Certainly, Jews stopped using the more explicit Septuagint translation as Christianity spread, and post-Christian Jewish translations into Greek use νεανις, neanis, meaning "young (juvenile) woman", rather than parthenos.
from wikipedia and if you want more,I'll get more
eutychus:
i personally dont need more. :wink:
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
the flesh body of christ was just a house for the SPIRIT.
peace
chuckt
Daniel:
--- Quote --- don't disagree with your opinion on paul you maybe right.Although you'd think it be mentioned somewhere else.
Youth version:
5For a young man doth marry a virgin, Thy Builders do marry thee, With the joy of a bridegroom over a bride, Rejoice over thee doth thy God.
I don't see how this applies to this topic remember virgin in old times also ment ummarried.
And further more how do you explainMark 3:21 about fis family saying he's beside himself as if nothing special ever happened in the past.
--- End quote ---
You can rather look at it as a chaste virgin to Christ, wouldnt you think? To present them as a chaste virgin to Him. Sons, joined and one with Him in Spirit and led by the Spirit.
I don't see how the last question is figured into the equation, or see it after the flesh at all. Like Paul just using her as an allegory, "made of a woman" under the law. Seems to show that even Paul disregarded the need to call her ( who symbolized the many) as "A virgin" to whom he was writing. Showing "them" that He would like (in the reality of the thing) present "them" plural of whom it spoke as a virgin. See the comparison spiritually "rolling back" into the body of Christ through the comparison?
Not sure bout the reference to Mark how you see it fit in? Help me out here.
Peace Daniel
alchemist:
--- Quote from: Daniel ---
--- Quote --- don't disagree with your opinion on paul you maybe right.Although you'd think it be mentioned somewhere else.
Youth version:
5For a young man doth marry a virgin, Thy Builders do marry thee, With the joy of a bridegroom over a bride, Rejoice over thee doth thy God.
I don't see how this applies to this topic remember virgin in old times also ment ummarried.
And further more how do you explainMark 3:21 about fis family saying he's beside himself as if nothing special ever happened in the past.
--- End quote ---
You can rather look at it as a chaste virgin to Christ, wouldnt you think? To present them as a chaste virgin to Him. Sons, joined and one with Him in Spirit and led by the Spirit.
I don't see how the last question is figured into the equation, or see it after the flesh at all. Like Paul just using her as an allegory, "made of a woman" under the law. Seems to show that even Paul disregarded the need to call her ( who symbolized the many) as "A virgin" to whom he was writing. Showing "them" that He would like (in the reality of the thing) present "them" plural of whom it spoke as a virgin. See the comparison spiritually "rolling back" into the body of Christ through the comparison?
Not sure bout the reference to Mark how you see it fit in? Help me out here.
Peace Daniel
--- End quote ---
Maybe you'll understand it better with this:
Mark 3:21 (New Living Translation)
21When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him home with them. "He's out of his mind," they said.
The point is that the virgin birth was a sign from god but here they just act like he's crazy and nothing happened that was special at all.
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