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Author Topic: I don't know what to do.  (Read 15527 times)

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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2009, 02:19:36 AM »

Okay, I'm not going to be on here tomorrow, because it's Christmas. I wanted to say, first of all, thank you for your help. I'm going to talk to my parents about maybe some medication, or something, because I'm in pretty bad shape right now. I'm back to worrying that I've committed the "unforgivable sin". Don't worry about responding, I know as long as God is causing me to repent, which I am, that I haven't done it. Thank you for your support.

EDIT: The other thing I'm worried about is that stupid "New Wine" site. The guy's only argument is that God gives us the "free will" to reject Him. I've often thought "We don't have free will, but God allows us to reject Him." But God wills that "All men be saved." So, it's just a matter of accepting God's truth and not man's. Anyway, I just need to stop worrying. (Also, what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason? Thanks. (I sound like I've learned nothing, I know, sorry.))
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 03:19:16 AM by Lupac »
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Samson

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2009, 12:44:11 PM »

Okay, I'm not going to be on here tomorrow, because it's Christmas. I wanted to say, first of all, thank you for your help. I'm going to talk to my parents about maybe some medication, or something, because I'm in pretty bad shape right now. I'm back to worrying that I've committed the "unforgivable sin". Don't worry about responding, I know as long as God is causing me to repent, which I am, that I haven't done it. Thank you for your support.

EDIT: The other thing I'm worried about is that stupid "New Wine" site. The guy's only argument is that God gives us the "free will" to reject Him. I've often thought "We don't have free will, but God allows us to reject Him." But God wills that "All men be saved." So, it's just a matter of accepting God's truth and not man's. Anyway, I just need to stop worrying. (Also, what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason? Thanks. (I sound like I've learned nothing, I know, sorry.))

Hey Jonathan,


I thought you were taking the day off and wouldn't be here, ;D, I'm only Joking with you, don't take it serious, afterall, what better place to be for those who desire to hear the Truth and not the Lie. Consider this regarding your eventual Salvation; Would a Loving God(1John.4:8) who is trillions of more loving than imperfect Humans, His Love being incomprehensible to us Endlessly punish(chastise) us for Finite Sins we committed for 70-80 years of life. That doesn't make any sense, does it. Even the worst of Human Judges wouldn't do that. Will not the Judge of the whole World do what is right. According to Ray, "Judge, Just" means fairness, doing good. There is no amount of sinning that a Human has done or will do that deserves a punishment(chastening) that is endless, meditate on this point and read Emails of Ray where the Emailer asks about Sin And Forgiveness, there's plenty of them. Just type in Sin and forgiveness above where it says search.

                          Hang in there young fellow, Samson.
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Kat

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2009, 01:15:11 PM »


Hi Lupac,

Quote
what happens to someone who is a "Christian", but then "rejects" God for whatever reason?

Christians are the 'called,' only a very few go on to be the chosen.  Christians do have a knowledge 'of' Christ, but He is not 'in' them.  So they have never really known Christ and they are now the Apostate church.

Jude 1:12  These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
v. 13  raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
v. 14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
v. 15  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

It will continue this way for the rest of this age until Christ returns and brings in the new age.  Then will the world's judgment finally comes.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them... And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Rev 20:15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Isa 26:9  ...For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2009, 05:25:27 PM »


Isa 29:24  They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.   8)

Arc
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2009, 07:22:04 PM »

Okay, I'm back. Thank you all for your help. I have some more questions.

1. In Hebrews 6:4-6, when it talks about falling away, I've heard it been said that in order for that sin to be forgiven, Christ would have to be crucified once again. Here's what is says in verse 6: (NASB)

Quote
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

I see nothing in that verse saying that Christ would have to be crucified again to be forgiven. Here's the verse in YLT:

Quote
and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

It sounds like, to me, that by falling away, they make a mockery out of the crucifixion, and will be punished for it. It also seems to say that it's impossible for men to renew them to repentance, but all things are possible with God. (Jesus' words, and the fact that Peter "fell away". I sure one could make the case that Peter wasn't "converted" yet, but he walked with Christ, promised to follow Christ to the end, and casted out demons in God's name. Surely he had "tasted" of the Holy Spirit even though he wasn't "converted" yet, right?)

2. It's about the "unpardonable" sin. Yes, even asking forgiveness hundreds of times, I still feel so worried that I've somehow committed it... (And, by extension, am going to hell. (I know. I know.)) One thing is, in Mark 3:29, Jesus refers to it as an "eonion sin". Now, most Bibles translate it as "eternal sin", which kind of scares me. (I know the word "eternal" isn't in the Bible. It's just my inner fear.) But Young (I quote from Young because it's my favorite translation on BibleGateway.) translates it this way:

Quote
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

I assume the word "aion" is in that verse in addition to "aionion" in the Greek. Is that true? If so, why do so many translations leave it out?

Those are my only two questions right now. Thanks everybody.
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mharrell08

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2009, 08:20:40 PM »

Okay, I'm back. Thank you all for your help. I have some more questions.

1. In Hebrews 6:4-6, when it talks about falling away, I've heard it been said that in order for that sin to be forgiven, Christ would have to be crucified once again. Here's what is says in verse 6: (NASB)

Quote
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

I see nothing in that verse saying that Christ would have to be crucified again to be forgiven. Here's the verse in YLT:

Quote
and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

It sounds like, to me, that by falling away, they make a mockery out of the crucifixion, and will be punished for it. It also seems to say that it's impossible for men to renew them to repentance, but all things are possible with God. (Jesus' words, and the fact that Peter "fell away". I sure one could make the case that Peter wasn't "converted" yet, but he walked with Christ, promised to follow Christ to the end, and casted out demons in God's name. Surely he had "tasted" of the Holy Spirit even though he wasn't "converted" yet, right?)

2. It's about the "unpardonable" sin. Yes, even asking forgiveness hundreds of times, I still feel so worried that I've somehow committed it... (And, by extension, am going to hell. (I know. I know.)) One thing is, in Mark 3:29, Jesus refers to it as an "eonion sin". Now, most Bibles translate it as "eternal sin", which kind of scares me. (I know the word "eternal" isn't in the Bible. It's just my inner fear.) But Young (I quote from Young because it's my favorite translation on BibleGateway.) translates it this way:

Quote
but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

I assume the word "aion" is in that verse in addition to "aionion" in the Greek. Is that true? If so, why do so many translations leave it out?

Those are my only two questions right now. Thanks everybody.


Hello Lupac,

The Holy Scriptures are inspired by God [2 Tim 3:16], not translations. For all the many translations, one could go on and on about why this was done a certain way and another version done differently. But it comes down to the fact that they were not inspired by God for the purposes of "doctrine, reproof, correction, etc." That's why the translations are inconsistent, their intentions for translating were not always the same as what God actually inspired to be written/stated.

I notice you continue to struggle with the 'unpardonable sin'...you even associate Peter with committing this as well. Peter never did so and neither have you. First we need to understand 'what' this sin is:

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2175.0):

Dear Jennifer:
Jennifer, I have many hundreds of emails ahead of yours, but I took the time to answer your before them all. It is not possible, however, for me to write essay type answers to hundreds and thousaands of emails. I realize that this is hard for many people to understand. Your email is about 6 pages long. If all my emails were 6 pages long, I would have to read thousands of pages each year before I could answer all my emails. Try that some time.
 
Don't apologize in one sentence and then put me down in the next. I did give you constructive criticism in my answer to you. I said that your theory was not Scriptural, because if it was, then Paul himself would have commited the "unpardonable sin" when he persecuted the Church of Christ in the name of God.
 
However, I do not wish for you to be despondent over this matter or me.
 
When Jesus warned of this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it was when He had cast out demons. The Scribes said that Jesus cast out devils by the prince of devils (Mark 3:22).  The Pharisees also accused Him of this very same thing (Matt. 9:34). And we are told that Jesus gave that stern warning, "Because they said, He [Jesus] has an unclean spirit."
 
But this alone is not all there is to this sin. Even in the Old Testament, when one sinned "ignorantly," he was held to a lower standard than if he sinned "willfully, knowlingly."  God's principles are always true. There was more to the sin of these Scribes and Pharisees than merely stating that Jesus had a devil and cast out devils by the prince of devil. The truth is THEY KNEW BETTER.  They knew that they were lying in order to deceive the multitudes who were beginning to believe in and trust Jesus as a Man of God. They were SINNING AGAINST LIGHT.  They were sinning aginst WHAT THEY KNEW WAS THE TRUTH.  And how do we know this?  We are frankly TOLD this in the Scriptures.
 
In John 3 we have a "Ruler of the Jews" by the name of Nicodemus, and this is what we are told by him:  "There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a RULER [this man KNEW what the Scribes and the Pharisees believed behind closed doors] of the Jews. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, WE [Scribes, Pharisees, Rulers, Jews]  KNOW  that you are a Teacher COME FROM GOD; for no man can do these miracles [such as casting out demons] that You do, except GOD BE WITH HIM"  (John 3:1-2).
 
It is when we KNOW the truth and blaspheme AGAINST THE TRUE LIGHT THAT WE KNOW, that we then "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" which is the means by which light and truth is imparted.


God be with you,
Ray



Listen carefully Lupac: If one who knows the truth of God but 'fall away', that is NOT the unpardonable sin. Only God is able to make us stand and keep us from falling away, it requires faith from God [Eph 2:8]. Don't ever think just because you stumble along in your walk that you are committing this sin because again, that is NOT what the unpardonable sin is.

The unpardonable sin is this: when one knows the truth of God and all its goodness but blasphemes AGAINST these truths. In other words, when one calls the light of God DARKNESS, even when they KNOW what the light really is, or at least perceive it.

Have you ever thought that the sovereignty of God, salvation of all mankind, the love of God, etc as something that is evil, wicked, or vile? Seems absurd doesn't it? Well keep that in mind if you ever think about the 'unpardonable sin' again.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Terry

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2009, 08:29:16 PM »

Hi Lupac,
(And, by extension, am going to hell.
You can't go to a place that doesn't exist,
When God lead me to Bible Truths i was just like you full of doubt and fear and that was why he lead me here so he could replace doubt and fear with Truth.
Theres no way i can give you Scriptures that you haven't already heard ,God brought you here for a reason and that was to remove that doubt and fear.
This is how God worked it out for me, i  read every email sent to Ray everyone of them and slowly but surely i started to see these things it took months, as Ray would explain things in his replys farther alone in his emails i would remember other things that he had said and all of a sudden it was like a puzzle the pieces started to fall in place, and then after that i read everything on the home page getting a little here a little there,man can't make you see these things its God that will reveal these things to you by his Spirit its hard to explain it its like i would read something over and over and then over again and i still couldn't see it and then praise God it would be like a light went off in my head and i would see it i think thats the way it is with most people God lead you here and it was for a reason so don't beat yourself up God will show you these things in his time so just dig in and hang on your're in for quite a ride.

P.S. I've been studing here for about three years and still have only scratched the surface

Your Friend
Terry
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Terry

Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2009, 12:49:34 PM »

Thanks, but I wasn't saying Peter committed that sin. I was saying that Peter "fell away" by denying Christ. Is that true? Also, could someone explain Hebrews 6:4-6? I've heard it been said that to be forgiven of falling away, Christ would have to be crucified again, using that verse. Also, using that one verse, I've heard that the "impossible" is really impossible, even for God, I suppose. That to me, is blasphemous. But can anyone help? Thanks.
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mharrell08

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2009, 01:29:05 PM »

Thanks, but I wasn't saying Peter committed that sin. I was saying that Peter "fell away" by denying Christ. Is that true? Also, could someone explain Hebrews 6:4-6? I've heard it been said that to be forgiven of falling away, Christ would have to be crucified again, using that verse. Also, using that one verse, I've heard that the "impossible" is really impossible, even for God, I suppose. That to me, is blasphemous. But can anyone help? Thanks.


I'm sorry Lupac, I was only trying to follow your comments. You are right, Peter 'fell away' by denying Christ as did all the apostles.

Now regarding Heb 6:4-6, no where does it state that it is impossible for God to do anything in these passages. Also, as Peter states in his 2nd epistle, no scripture is it's own interpretation [2 Pet 1:20]. If you continue on in Hebrews 6, the writer explains the end for those who 'fall away' from the truth:

Heb 6:4-8  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


These who 'fall away' were never of the Elect in the first place, seeing that the Elect will not be deceived [Matt 24:24]. In Hebrews 6, these people are likened to ground that brings forth thorns & briers [similar to the analogy Paul uses in Romans 9: 'vessels of dishonor']. Their end is to be burned aka judgment by fire. This judgment will teach the wicked & unbelieving righteousness in the next age [Isa 26:9].

The Elect are likened to ground that brings forth herbs...similar to the 'vessels of honor' that Paul speaks of in Romans 9 as well as Christ parable of the Sower [Matt 13].

Though Peter 'fell away', this was not the same falling away talked about in Hebrews 6, seeing as he had yet to be 'enlightened'. Peter's shame happened before the scriptures being opened to him & the other apostles [Luke 24:45] and the spirit coming onto him and the others [Acts 2].


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Kat

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2009, 04:52:24 PM »


Hi Terry,

Quote
i  read every email sent to Ray everyone of them and slowly but surely i started to see these things it took months, as Ray would explain things in his replys farther alone in his emails i would remember other things that he had said and all of a sudden it was like a puzzle the pieces started to fall in place, and then after that i read everything on the home page getting a little here a little there,man can't make you see these things its God that will reveal these things to you by his Spirit its hard to explain it its like i would read something over and over and then over again and i still couldn't see it and then praise God it would be like a light went off in my head and i would see it

This is the way I see it too.  Ray brought out this verse in the last conference.

Pro 23:7  For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.

I have thought about this verse and considered the meaning, it seems to me to be saying your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions and your actions become your reality.

The thought process or mind/heart is constantly evaluating what we take in through sight, sound, taste and is processing it.  This is reflected in our speech, the way we act (how we deal with issues and solve problems) and our overall attitude or who we are. 

So we have been planting and nourishing all these false concepts/doctrines in our minds all our lives and they grow to form who we are.  It will take more than our own efforts to change who we are and learn/understand/know the truth.  The only way this is possible is that God's Holy Spirit comes in and then our carnal beast natural is brought into check.

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

It is a slow process though, we are removing the old/falsehoods by replacing it with the new/truth. But it is like you said we can read something over and over and not get it and all the sudden a light goes on.  I think the process of learning precept upon precept (Isa. 28:10) means we have to get one understanding in place before we can go on to learn more.  But some false doctrines are so deeply rooted in our thinking that they keep creeping back in and raising their ugly head.  So our battle is ongoing.

Quote
I've been studing here for about three years and still have only scratched the surface

So true  ;)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2009, 04:25:56 PM »

I'm so confused. On one side you have Ray, and others like him saying that God will save all, and no one is going to be burned forever. But then on the other side is all the theologians who are supposed to know the Bible better than anyone else. And then you have the middle ground, of people who say only those who reject Christ will be burned. I don't know what to believe. I want to believe that God is good and just, and won't eternally punish anyone for sin. But then I'm scared that maybe he will. I don't want to serve a god that would burn anyone alive forever, but then I'm afraid if I don't, I will meet the same fate. I wish I could believe, but I don't know how...
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arion

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2009, 04:51:04 PM »

One of my former teachers in babylon did have a few pearls of wisdom that I still hold on to and one of the finest is this one.  "Don't doubt in the darkness what God has given you in the light."  IF you believe that the word of God is true then you have to actually believe it.  God is love!!  (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)  God never changes!! (Mal 3:6)  Now, is it love in any idea of the word to burn your enemies in literal fire?  Well is it?  What does God think about burning people in literal fire?  God says that burning people in fire is an abomination and has never even entered into his mind.  (Jer 32:35)  You will have to decide what you believe about God and his nature.  Do we take him at his word or not?  Do we listen to the charlatans who are like the birds of the air in the parable plucking away God's truth from our hearts or not?  I believe that down deep you have the witness in your own heart about these things.  If God is calling you then this issue will be settled for you sooner or later.  I wish we could pray a prayer for you and fix this but it's not that easy.  God has a path that He has you on and in the end it will bear out.  Some things you just have to walk through.  But I leave you with this once again.

    Don't doubt in the darkness what God has given you in the light!!
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2009, 05:09:58 PM »

You're right. I just have to... overcome. I wish it was easier. I just, want to be secure in my faith that God is good, and just. I certainly don't believe the Babylon idea of hell is justice. JWs have more "justice" than mainstream Christianity. But nether are anywhere near the truth. I guess what I struggle on is, how can I know which is true?
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2009, 05:12:41 PM »

Let this reasure you Lupac

Php 2:13  For it is God who is producing in you both THE DESIRE and the ability to do what pleases him.

God produces the DESIRE and the ABILTY. They are both from God.

Arc
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Kat

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2009, 10:27:54 PM »


Hi Lupac,

You have only been studying here for a relatively short period.  Give this time to develop in your mind, you are still laying the foundation.  There is a lot to take in and understand, keep studying and learning line upon line, precept upon precept.  Once you have laid a solid foundation you will really be able to go on to further knowledge, because you will have the basics down.  But first things first.

Mat 13:31  Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field,

Luke 13:18  Then He said, "What is the kingdom of God like? And to what shall I compare it?
v. 19  It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and put in his garden...

The kingdom of God, could we say this is the Truth and all it encompasses.  What could "his field/garden" be?  Well you take that initial bit of truth you received into your 'heart' and it begins to grow if you nourish it and it will become huge and intricate and able to help others.

Mat 13:32  which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

v. 19 ...and it grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches."

Quote
But then on the other side is all the theologians who are supposed to know the Bible better than anyone else. And then you have the middle ground, of people who say only those who reject Christ will be burned.


Wouldn't you say that these are the "many"?

Mat 7:13  "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Mat 7:14  For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
v. 22  Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
v. 23  And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Keep on seeking His truth, He will not disappoint you.

mercy, peace and love
Kat



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G. Driggs

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2009, 11:33:10 PM »

I wish I could believe, but I don't know how...

Just ask and believe you will receive.

Mat 21:22  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Joh 16:24  "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.

I too sometimes struggle with unbelief, but I have never forgotten these next verses and how much they have helped. Ask Him to help your unbelief.

Mar 9:23  And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."
Mar 9:24  Immediately the boy's father cried out and said, "I do believe; help my unbelief."


All good gifts must be asked for and given by God.

Mat 7:11  "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Luk 11:13  "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Everything good comes from God, including your faith, your belief, your hope, your love, and the grace and salvation you WILL receive. Just ask and be patient, give yourself time like Kat told you, all this does not happen overnight. I have complete confidence you will believe, in HIS time.

Sincerely hope this helps a little.

G.Driggs
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2009, 08:24:32 PM »

I'm learning, and doing better now. One thing that's hard, for me, (I need to get over myself...) is that Calvinists have a very, very negative view of humanity. They believe that not only we deserve to die, (Which we do, and WILL.) but we deserve nothing less than to be tortured forever, just for existing/sinning. (I don't know if that's what they say they believe, nor would they admit it, but that's what a lot of them think.) It's very depressing, and it's hard to get out of that mindset.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 08:26:42 PM by Lupac »
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arion

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2009, 09:33:11 PM »

The truth of the teachings of God's great love for all is not only found throughout scripture but is now on the doorstep of your heart through the teachings.  You know in your own spirit I believe, the truth of this.  Time to turn off the Christian tv, radio or books that parrot the doctrine of babylon.  Ray has said it many times that if something is true the more study you do shows it to be true and by the same token if something is false (the typical pagan hell doctrine) the more honest study you do proves it to be false.  It does take some time for most of us to be able to slough off all the old and carnal teachings that we received.  

      Gal 5:22-23  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I find these fruits everyday on this board and on precious few other websites that have grasped some truths of universal salvation.

However,

     Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I also see many of these manifested on various websites and in every church that I was ever a part of.  Not that any of us are any better than those who do these things as it is God who works in us both will and to do of his good pleasure.  Jesus said that by their fruits you will know them and of course being in the carnal teachings of the institutional church that is all that you ever saw so it was easy to point the finger at other churches and belief systems and be blind to the works of the flesh in your own church and in your own self.  It didn't really take all that long after throwing myself into the teachings and into the people on this board to discern these things once God turned the lights on in my heart as it were.  Just keep on keeping on...you'll make it.
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2009, 03:22:24 PM »

Thanks. I worry about stuff that shouldn't even be worried about. Worrying won't do me any good. I'm still very afraid of hell, unfortunately. When I was younger, I used to have nightmares about being sent there. I never told my parents. I worry that... this is really silly, that maybe all of this isn't even true, (God, Jesus, an afterlife at all.) but I know it is. I've stumbled across many sites in the past I wish I hadn't. One was a site, I hate to even say it, run by a satanist that supposedly "proved" that the Bible was a Jewish/Catholic conspiracy designed to keep the masses under control, and not let them into the "higher up's secrete occult power". Yeah... I sometimes wish I could erase all my memories and leave only the "good" ones. I worry about the stupidest stuff. I don't know where I'm really going with this post, I had the idea earlier, but I had to leave my house and when I got back, I couldn't remember what I was going to say.
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Ninny

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Re: I don't know what to do.
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2009, 06:44:26 PM »

Bryant...please keep it in your heart and mind that God is Love..keep that...remember that...Love doesn't torture, love doesn't hurt intentionally, Love is God...whatsoever things are true...think on these things..God is not out to hurt or torture in any way any of his creation..not you nor I nor anyone...ever...If you can't cling to anything else in the darkness, cling to the fact that God is Love....God is Love....His Love is awesome and He is an awesome Father...You've been given the scriptures. Now let them soak in...
Kathy :-*
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