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Author Topic: end times  (Read 5806 times)

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gallenwalsh

  • Guest
end times
« on: December 13, 2009, 10:04:04 AM »

How does one make distinctions between what is literal and what is figurative in the book of revelation. I understand that we will live the seals and that the seals are gods judgements on the elect, and that his judgements have  mercy in them in that we receive correction and all of our idols of the hearts are exposed for what they are and become nothing as they should be. The last and greatest Idol being ourselves, that being said, how does one make distinctions regarding the rest of humanity and what will happen to them up until the return of Christ. What can we expect in the days ahead ? Will the literal heavens and earth be shaken, will men die from fear,will there be total economic collaps and chaos,disease,if these days are not shortened there should be no flesh saved alive, is this to be taken literally ?
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 11:40:34 AM »

How does one make distinctions between what is literal and what is figurative in the book of revelation. I understand that we will live the seals and that the seals are gods judgements on the elect, and that his judgements have  mercy in them in that we receive correction and all of our idols of the hearts are exposed for what they are and become nothing as they should be. The last and greatest Idol being ourselves, that being said, how does one make distinctions regarding the rest of humanity and what will happen to them up until the return of Christ. What can we expect in the days ahead ? Will the literal heavens and earth be shaken, will men die from fear,will there be total economic collaps and chaos,disease,if these days are not shortened there should be no flesh saved alive, is this to be taken literally ?


Dan 12:4   ...even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

2 Tim 3:13  ...evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.


Mankind will continue to grow worse & worse...in morality. Babylon has influence in all the world [The waters which thou sawest, where the whore [Babylon] sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues...Rev 17:5]. It is the spiritual that God is concerned with (mind & heart)...mankind's heaven & earth will be shaken.

The Lord had already planned in the beginning when this wicked age would end, He's not changing it to save anyone...it was already planned in the beginning.


Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 01:14:45 PM »


Rom 13:11  This also, knowing the time, that it is already time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we believed.

"The Lake of Fire!"
Part 1


God plainly tells us in chapter one, verse one, that an angel "signified" this whole "Revelation of Jesus Christ" contained in this book. He "SYMBOLIZED" it, for that is what "signifies" means--to make known by signs, and signs are symbols. Therefore it can’t be literal.

Arc
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mmijares

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 08:18:46 PM »

I, myself, like Gallenwalsh, is a bit concern of what some of the verses in Revelation mean.  When we say that everything in Revelation is not to be taken literally, does this mean that Christ's second coming is also not literal, i.e. He will not come in bodily form and appear to us the second time?

-Mijares  ???
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2009, 11:34:22 PM »


Hi mmijares,

The first paper in the Lake of fire series explains a lot about the symbols in the Bible and the book of Revelation.  Here are a few excerpts from that article.

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html ----

LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?

In many cases it is not difficult to determine whether a verse is literal or not. But, since we use figures of speech so often we tend to forget that much of what we say daily is not literally true. Many of us would hardly be able to carry on a conversation if we had to drop out of our vocabulary every word and every phrase we speak that is NOT LITERALLY TRUE. The English language, as well as all other languages, is just filled with symbolic and metaphorical phrases.
v
v
Who "wears the pants" in your family? Has "the cat taken your tongue" lately? Can you "carry a tune in a bucket?" Do you follow the "spin doctors" with their commentary on the "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC? Where do you stand when "the tire hits the road?" Do you know for a fact that "the early bird gets the worm?" Does "a stitch in time save nine?" Are any of your friends "square?" Is it "cool" to eat chili on a hot day? Do people turn "blue" when they are sad? Do cowards really have "a yellow stripe down their back?" Are you "worth your salt?" Do you know people who are "pigeon heads" and "hot heads?" If people realized that "silence is golden," maybe they would stop "breaking your ear drums." Do you think that I am just "pulling your leg?" And just when will "hell freeze over?"

All languages have many, many figures of speech that are not literally true. And God also uses symbols, figures, idioms, metaphors and parables, over and over in His Word--hundreds and hundreds of times!
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The first eleven verses of Chapter one in Revelation are an introduction regarding where, how, and what John is going to record for us. Much of this introduction can be taken literally, however, not all. Beginning with verse twelve, we are confronted with one symbol after another for the remainder of the entire twenty-two-chapter-book.

Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true.

The fact is there are many many truths in the Bible that are not literally true.

Jesus "said" that the bread He gave His disciples at the Lord’s supper was His body. Yet, Jesus Himself explains in other places that this was not literally true. He gave them literal bread, and not His literal physical flesh. What that bread represented, and symbolized, was indeed, His body--but not his physical body.

Jesus said that the words that he spoke were SPIRIT (John 6:63). Jesus Christ changes not. His words are STILL spirit and they certainly were spirit when John wrote the words of Christ regarding His unveiling or revelation. Just as we physically feed on physical bread for PHYSICAL LIFE, thus also we spiritually feed on Jesus Christ’s spiritual body for SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Understand this! Some think that by accepting the Scriptures as they are given (in the case of Revelation that means AS SYMBOLS), that somehow this "spiritualizes away" the teaching. What? It is the "spiritual" aspect of these symbols that IS THE REAL THING; THE REAL UNDERSTANDING! Physical things "pass away" whereas spiritual things are eternal! The very FACT that this book is written in "symbols" is proof positive that the understanding of them is SPIRITUAL and not physical or literal.

Symbols, metaphors, and parables ARE NEVER LITERALLY TRUE! But they powerfully demonstrate SPIRITUAL TRUTHS!

"This is the second death--the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15 and 21:8) is a metaphor that is no more literal than "Jesus taking the bread...said, ‘Take, EAT. This IS My body" (Mat. 26:26).

Paul did not instruct Timothy to "STUDY" the scriptures if a mere casual reading is all that is necessary to comprehend its many deep and profound teachings. On the other hand, I believe that those who have "studied" God’s Word are able to open up much understanding to those who are not called to teach (even babes, or minors as our Lord stated).

I want to quickly show my readers just how impossible it is to assume most of God’s word is literal.

Again I state: All God’s Word is TRUE, however, much of it is figurative language which is not literally true to fact, but rather in what the figurative language of symbols, metaphors, and parables represent.
v
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My King James Bible says:

"The Revelation of Saint John the Divine."

And then verse one says,

"The revelation of Jesus Christ..."

Which is it? It is, of course, the latter, seeing that the title is merely man’s interpretation which is obviously wrong. The book of Revelation is a revelation OF Jesus Christ. It is not just a revelation from Jesus Christ, but a revelation of or about Jesus Christ. It is a revelation of HIM!

Most of my life I believed that the book of Revelation was a literal prophecy about events that will happen at the END OF THE WORLD! Prophesies that had virtually no meaning for those who have lived during the past two thousand years since it was written. But for most of my life, I WAS IN ERROR!

Now for a most important understanding. Just how was this revelation to John to be recorded and preserved? Notice it:

"...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John" (Rev. 1:1)

What does it mean to "signify?" Certainly this prophecy of the revelation or unveiling of Christ was written down (ver. 19), but it means more than just that. To "signify" has to do with signs and symbols. From my Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary p. 1541, first definition of signify:

"to make known by signs or words"

First definition of sign:

"any symbol ...that represents an idea"

That which, being external, represents or signifies something internal or spiritual.

The synonym for sign is: symbol.

There is no mistaking this language. The book of Revelation is written in SYMBOLS! So what is written externally, on paper, in symbols, has a SPIRITUAL meaning and application.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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soberxp

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 01:55:46 AM »

I, myself, like Gallenwalsh, is a bit concern of what some of the verses in Revelation mean.  When we say that everything in Revelation is not to be taken literally, does this mean that Christ's second coming is also not literal, i.e. He will not come in bodily form and appear to us the second time?

-Mijares  ???

Christ's second coming
 REV 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

the bright Morning Star? what's that ? that's must be sun! WHY? from other planet,the sun also looks like Star.

literal and parabolical
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 01:58:14 AM by soberxp »
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mmijares

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 02:01:40 AM »

Kat and others,

Ray wrote, "Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true."
Meaning, some are literally true.

So, as Gallenwash previously asked, "How does one make distinctions between what is literal and what is figurative in the book of revelation?"

-Mijares  ???
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 02:17:10 AM »

Kat and others,

Ray wrote, "Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true."
Meaning, some are literally true.

So, as Gallenwash previously asked, "How does one make distinctions between what is literal and what is figurative in the book of revelation?"

-Mijares  ???


All the signs & symbols written in Revelation have a higher, spiritual meaning. But 'Jesus Christ' written in Revelation literally means 'Jesus Christ'...not someone or something else. One understands the symbolism in Revelation by going to the OT and finding the 'shadow' or 'type' (and some parts of the NT, but mostly OT).

Stay reading the Word and continue reading Ray's teachings (on the BT website & forum)...the Lord will begin to open up more of your understanding. It just takes time, He's not going to give you more than you can bear [John 16:12].


Marques
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mmijares

  • Guest
Re: end times
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 04:36:10 AM »


Stay reading the Word and continue reading Ray's teachings (on the BT website & forum)...the Lord will begin to open up more of your understanding. It just takes time, He's not going to give you more than you can bear [John 16:12].

Marques

Thank you Marques.

Sometimes, in this busy world, I thought I can always go thru the shortcut and understand everything in an instant.
Spiritual matters are entirely different.  You are right.  The Lord Jesus is right.

-Mijares  :)
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