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Author Topic: Everlasting Father  (Read 2460 times)

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Extol

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Everlasting Father
« on: December 16, 2009, 05:24:30 PM »

Can someone help explain this? I think I've seen Ray talk about it before but I can't find it on here [I don't really know how to use the search engine]

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
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Samson

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Re: Everlasting Father
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 05:45:52 PM »

Extol,

        An EMail answer from Ray is supplied below in blue. Also, just like God is merely a Title and the Greek Word Theos(God) means placer or disposer, arbiter, also Eonian(Everlasting Father) is a Title, because Jesus is Our Father in regards to Eonian(Everlasting) Life(Life of the Age). See Ray's Email below, it's the only one I found so far. Looked at, Is God a Trinity or Expanding Family, didn't see anything regarding Isaiah. 9:6.




"


    Isaiah 9:6
« on: December 11, 2007, 04:59:17 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ray,
          The (Isaiah 9:6), is with regards to the scripture saying Jesus is called the mighty God and an everlasting father. Christians who believe in the trinity doctrine cite this as unequivocal evidence that the trinity is right and that Jesus is God and the Father. However I think its got some thing to do with the fact that Jesus has be given authority from God in proxy and eventually he will have to return it back to God(1 Cor 15:28) so presently those titles are appropriate but not permanent.
          Just wanted your opinion on my understanding so far and if there is anything you can add that will help me understand this scripture better. I know the word 'everlasting', probably shouldn't be in this verse, and that the Father of the ages is a better rendition. By the way it's not Helen its Jimi I'm using my wife 's e-m ail address, sorry for any confusion.
          Thanks Ray.


    Dear Helen:  No, all of Jesus' titles are permanent, not "temporarily appropriated."  Jesus IS GOD, but remember that "God" is a title, it is not the first or last NAME of Jesus' Father, nor is Jesus HIS OWN FATHER. That is total unscriptural nonsense. Too big a subject for an email. Did you read my paper on the "Trinity?"

    God be with you,

    Ray
 
 
 
[/color]Hope this Helps, Samson.
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Kat

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Re: Everlasting Father
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 05:58:32 PM »


Hi Extol,

I found another place where this is explained in the 'Who and What is God?' transcript.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg39178.html#msg39178 ----

[Someone says;  Isa 9:6  For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.]
Some will say wait a minute, “The everlasting Father?”  Christ (Jehovah) says, He was a Father to Israel.  He’s the eonian God to Israel.  So are we understanding God better? 

Okay, let’s take this a little farther.  We read about God/Elohim, we learn about the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim, and sometimes we hear about El. 
Now we know in the garden, Christ... though Jehovah is doing the talking, because no man has ever heard God the Father.  So the Lord God (Jehovah/Elohim) said unto the woman, “and the Lord God said…”  Why did He say ‘said’?  Because He’s the spokesman, He’s the Word.  He’s the Word of who?  Elohim, and He is Jehovah/Elohim and His Father is Elohim.  There is only one Elohim.  So it’s the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim.

When we come to the NT then we read about God.  Jesus Christ said, they ask Him what is the greatest commandment,  He said “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matt 22:37).  The Greek says, you shall love the Kurios your Theos with all your heart and so on. 

Kurios/Theos… who was He talking about?  The Father.  He’s quoting the OT, that comes out of Deuteronomy, where Jehovah Himself says, “You shall love the Lord your God” (Deu 6:5).  Not Kurios/Theos,  but Jehovah/Elohim. 

Well who are we to worship with all our heart?  Jehovah/Elohim or Kurios/Theos of the NT, who we know is the Father.  But Jehovah/Elohim (where it’s quoted from the OT), is Jesus Christ.  Who is it talking about?  It’s always talking about BOTH.  ALWAYS!

Even though we give Jesus the designation Jehovah/Elohim, it still includes the Father.  Why?  Because there is only ONE Elohim!  He is the Jehovah, one God - there is the Father, one God and together they are the one God.  You just have to believe the scriptures. 

John 10:30  I and My Father are one.

One what?  One God and it’s understood, We are one... one God.  We two, are one.  Whenever two are of the same mind and spirit, they are considered one.
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Hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Extol

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Re: Everlasting Father
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 06:19:02 PM »

Ah, swell, thanks guys!  :D
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Brett

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Re: Everlasting Father
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 09:56:52 PM »

Can someone help explain this? I think I've seen Ray talk about it before but I can't find it on here [I don't really know how to use the search engine]

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hi,

I don't know if this help you, look in:

Ps.102:27 NKJV
“But You [God] are the same, And Your YEARS will have NO END [like ‘eternal’].”

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