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What did Calvin and Luther do?

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Samson:
Lupac,

A copy and paste from Wikipedia on Martin Luther, it isn't much, but it clearly supports the fact he advocated and supported evil actions against the Jews, especially after they wouldn't adhere to his conversion intentions for them. Paste and Copy below in Blue.


 Luther's other major works on the Jews were his 60,000-word treatise Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen (On the Jews and Their Lies), and Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlecht Christi (On the Holy Name and the Lineage of Christ), both published in 1543, three years before his death.[174] Luther argued that the Jews were no longer the chosen people but "the devil's people": he referred to them with violent, vile language.[175][176] Luther advocated setting synagogues on fire, destroying Jewish prayerbooks, forbidding rabbis from preaching, seizing Jews' property and money, and smashing up their homes, so that these "poisonous envenomed worms" would be forced into labour or expelled "for all time".[177] In Robert Michael's view, Luther's words "We are at fault in not slaying them" amounted to a sanction for murder.[178]


                        Kind Regards, Samson.

Kat:

Hi Lupac,

All those things about Calvin may be truth, but let me add this email from Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=253.msg2134#msg2134 -----------------------

Until we come to realize that we are all just as evil as John Calvin or Adolph Hitler, we will never ever understand evil in the world.  I thank God that I have never slowly burned another man or woman at the stake over a low heat fire, but I also know that under the same circumstances, I could have done such a thing. It is within the carnal mind to do ALL the evils of the universe, and that is why carnal-minded people do such things.
Ask yourself what kinda of a God would allow YOU to be led to these same crimes of eating your own children?  PEOPLE rape little girls, not God!  Some people WANT to rape little girls. Others just want to DECEIVE their fellow brothers and sisters into thinking that they are powerful, or great, or spiritual, or wise, or loving, etc., but are just as evil inside as Adolph Hitler. Given the opportunity we would have all been Calvin and Hitler.  But is it necessary? Yes, it is necessary. Do we think that God is playing a game?
I once placed a board across a little stream that I crossed going to school in the first grade. However, laying a board accross San Francisco Bay is a bit more involved.  Creating a cat that will sit and purr on your lap is one thing, but creating creatures into the very IMAGE OF GOD HIMSELF, is quite another. Even the miracle of the Golden Gate Bridge compared to a wooden board cannot compare to what we see now and what we will be when God is through with us.
 It takes incredible powers of good and evil to accomplish this. Christians cannot justify God's use of evil, and hence attribute it to what they preceive to be a greater force than God--SATAN.  Supposedly God doesn't want evil, but He just can't stop Satan. Nonsense. Read my site. I told you it is a large subject.

Ray

Extol:
Excellent reminder Kat. I have to remind myself of this kind of thing daily; only by the grace of God am I prevented from engaging in certain sins. I've been listening to the audio "Is Free Will an Oxymoron?" in which Ray says:
 "I just thank God there are certain sins that I just never was tempted to have or partake of.  I’m so thankful for that.  But if you think that I’m so stupid, that I can’t see that under the same circumstances, of whoever you want to take, say Manson, that I can’t see and know and understand in my very heart and being, that if I was born in his family under those conditions and circumstances, I would have been Charles Manson! ...You and I under the same circumstances, would have done the same thing.  Why can’t we see that?"

arion:
Also the audio teaching of called 'guilty of all' which came from Nashville 05;  http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05%20Guilty_of_ALL.mp3  This teaching is a tremendous blessing and at the same time humbling because if you sin in one area then your indeed guilty of all and no better than the murderer or child molester.  We might not have done these things but were not any better than those who have done so.  It's just that God has exercised his grace in our lives that we didn't go down the same path as some of these others have done.

Extol:
I was listening to the 2008 study Does A Sovereign God Ever Change?, and there was another great explanation by Ray which reminded me of this thread:

(e-mail referring to the disciples falling asleep in the garden): The person asking the question above said that if she was with the Son of God and He ask her to pray, she would not have gone to sleep, RAY DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU WOULD HAVE GONE TO SLEEP ? 

And the answers is, absolutely!  Absolutely!  You will never understand the Bible and you will never understand God’s plan and you will never understand who and what you are, until you understand that you are no different than any of those people because of anything that is superior in you.  If you say, ‘well if God told me not to eat of the forbidden fruit in the garden Eden, I wouldn’t have eaten it, would you Ray.’  Absolutely I would have.  Why?  Because I’m a human just like they were. 

Now I’ll admit when it comes to raping little girls and cutting their heads off, I have a problem with that.  If they say, ‘Ray if you were born where they are, would you have done that?’  I have to admit absolutely I would.  Now it goes against every thing that I believe and stand for, now.  Why is that?  Because I wasn’t born under those conditions, by those parents, at that point in history, under those circumstances, that’s all.  I mean that is a great spiritual lesson of humility. 

When I think of some of the most evil, despicable people that ever lived, I think of Uday and Qusay.  Saddam Hussein killed and murdered so many people… 

But his sons Uday and Qusay, I mean Saddam could not hold a candle to them.  I think it was Uday that Saddam said, ‘my son Uday is immoral.’  Can you believe that.  Saddam one of the most evil, despicable person to ever draw breath on this God’s earth, said that his son Uday was immoral... 

So if you can’t see though, that if Saddam had been your father, when you were three months old and a year old and ten years old and you were raised under him in that family.  You would have been Qusay.  Yes you would have and if you deny it you don’t understand yourself and you don’t understand human nature and you don’t understand the Bible.  It’s just a whole lot you don’t understand, if you can’t see that that is true.

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