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Romans 5:19?
Lupac:
Okay, here's what the verse says according to YLT:
--- Quote ---for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
--- End quote ---
Here's my question, why does it say "the many" instead of "all" like in 1 Timothy? I've asked this question before, on an other forum, but I didn't get a very good answer. Also, a couple of verses back Paul calls grace a "free gift" and a lot of Babylon has twisted that into "you have to accept it. (Of your own free will.)" Which is totally unscriptural, but why is it called a gift? Thanks.
arion:
Because it's two different words in the Greek. In 1 Tim 2:4 the word translated 'all' is the word 'pas' (strongs 3956) whereas in Romans 5:19 the word translated many is the word 'polus' (strongs 4183) so there are two different words used here.
However the meaning of Romans 5:19 is pretty clear. Ask any Christian about the verse...
--- Quote ---Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
--- End quote ---
They will almost all tell you that the first useage of the word 'many' means all because we know that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Yet if you ask them about the second 'many' they will tell you that it doesn't mean all. Yet in the context of the verse here if all were made sinners then all are going to be made righteous. Same word translated 'many' yet the change the meaning in the middle of the verse from everyone to not everyone. See the difference? Neither do I.
Lupac:
Yeah, I know about the greek words. I meant, why didn't Paul just say "all" instead of "many"? But that sentence from Ray pretty much sums it up. Thanks.
Kat:
Hi Lupac,
There is a Bible study 'Does All Mean All?' I think it would be a great help to understand the meaning of 'all' in the Scriptures.
transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
Audio
http://bible-truths.com/audio/09-02-07 Part 1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/09-02-07 Part 2.mp3
--- Quote ---Also, a couple of verses back Paul calls grace a "free gift" and a lot of Babylon has twisted that into "you have to accept it. (Of your own free will.)" Which is totally unscriptural, but why is it called a gift? Thanks.
--- End quote ---
Here is an excerpt from the Bible study 'Saved By Grace thru Faith' that should help a bit.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html ---
Grace is a gift, you don’t have it. Now this is something you can’t conjure up, it’s a gift of God. It’s always the grace OF God, it comes from God, there is nothing you can do. You say, ‘well what about the faith we’ve got, that comes from us.’ No no no, it says in Eph 2: 8-10 “… faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELF, it is the gift of God;”
The faith it’s a gift, the grace it’s all a gift, everything is a gift. It’s all a gift of God. It’s all faith, it’s all grace, they are all one thing. Grace causes you to live rightly. What does faith do? If you believe God, you do what He says. It is virtually the same thing.
v
v
We are saved by grace. It’s free, gratuitous gift from God, but it does something. It teaches - it chastens - it educates - it is divine influence upon the seat of our emotions - thinking - plans - purpose - goals - aspirations and everything else. It divinely influences that heart, you can’t help it, it does it.
This just smacks free will right in the teeth. According to true free will, God can’t make you do anything, you have to choose it on your own. How can you choose to do good unless God divinely influences your heart? You see, you can’t. But the second you say He does, you’ve taken away man’s free will. Now God is doing it. What an evil contradiction this thing of free will and free choices is.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Lupac:
Thanks Kat. I wish I could be as sure about every thing, all of this, as you are. I will read those transcripts. I'm on the last part of the LoF series. The one about Hades, then, I'm going to read them all over again.
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