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Author Topic: Sermon on the Mount  (Read 4500 times)

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Oatmeal

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Sermon on the Mount
« on: December 25, 2009, 11:49:59 PM »

I hope that this doesn't get me kicked off the website.  Yesterday I started going through the book of Matthew and I got to the "Sermon on the Mount" and then…

I hope that it is OK that I ask.  It's not something major.  I'd feel uncomfortable if I didn't deal with it now.  It would make me feel isolated.

Matthew 5:1-2  And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:  2  And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Who does "them" refer to, the multitudes or the disciples or both groups?  Surely it can only mean both the multitudes and the disciples because:

Matthew 7:28-29
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:  29  For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The phrase "(he) taught them" is used in Matthew 5:2 at the start of the sermon.  The phrase is also used in Matthew 7:29 at the end of the sermon where "them" is clearly referring to "the people".

When I got to "the people", I looked up the Greek to verify that "the people" were a different group than "the multitudes".  However, in the Greek the word for "the multitudes" in Matthew 5:1 is the same as the word for "the people" in Matthew 7:28 (ochlos).  The Concordant Literal Version uses "the throngs" in both verses.

Ray says in bible-truths.com/lake16-D2.htm that the sermon was for the disciples only (if you search for the 2nd occurrence of the word "specifically" you’ll hit Ray's explanation) and I have also read this opinion elsewhere (and I felt uncomfortable then).  I feel disturbed by such a claim because I cannot see how the text in Matthew 5:1-2 and 7:28-29, and even the text in Matthew 5:1-2 on its own, unambiguously substantiates it.

Also the phrase: "And seeing the multitudes" speaks to me that Jesus taught them, not ran away from them.

Perhaps one or some of you could clarify things.
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From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.

Kat

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Re: Sermon on the Mount
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2009, 12:33:15 AM »


Hi Oatmeal,

Mat 5:1 But, seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain,—and, when He had taken a seat, His disciples came unto Him;

Looking at this Scripture we see Jesus saw the multitudes 'then' He "went up into a mountain" and it is there that the disciples came to Him.  I believe the multitude was gathered below and up on the mountain He was separated from the multitude and with only His disciples.

Then later in verse 28 you will see He was with the multitude again, obviously He had gone back down the mountain to the multitude.

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, with astonishment were the multitudes being struck at His teaching;

Now we also have Luke's version of this same sermon with the disciples and the multitude.  Here I think it may show Jesus wasn't speaking to them at the same time.  It starts out with Jesus calling all His disciples together and choosing out the 12.  This seems to be the match to Matt. 5:1.

Luke 6:13 And, when it became day, He called His disciples, and chose from them, twelve, whom also he named, Apostles,—

I think verse 13 is when Jesus was up on the mountain with the disciples, then it shows that He came down off the mountain in verse 17, back to where the multitude was.

Luke 6:17 and, coming down with them (disciples), He stood upon a level place, also a great multitude of His disciples,—and a great throng of the people, from all Judaea and Jerusalem and the sea-coast of Tyre and Zidon, who had come to hearken unto Him and to be healed from their diseases;

But when we go down to verse 20, this is referring back to when He is speaking to the disciples, as He says so.

Luke 6:20 And, He, lifting up His eyes towards His disciples, was saying:—Happy, ye destitute, for, yours, is the kingdom of God.

Luke 6:39 He spake, moreover, a parable also, unto them: Can, the blind, guide, the blind? will not, both, fall into, a ditch?

But then when you come down to verse 39 and this is when He starts to speak to the multitude as it says in "a parable" He spoke to "them."  He always spoke to the people/multitude in parables.

Mat 13:34  All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them.

So in Matt. there is no division between what He said up on the mountain and when He came down and spoke to the great multitude.  But in Luke it seems more like it was maybe a two part thing, one for the disciples and one for the multitude. 
 
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Sermon on the Mount
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2009, 01:02:01 AM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4117.0.html ---------

 Dear Jerry:

        Great!  I look forward to meeting you in Nashville.       

        The Sermon on the Mount was NOT given to the multitudes as were His many parables. He taught "His DISCIPLES" higher up on this mountain, not the multitudes which He taught nearer the base of the mountain. However, these teachings on the mount are ANYTHING but "straight forward" as you suggest. It would take a 100 page paper to answer your question fully, Jerry, and so that is why I am writing a 100 page paper to do just that. It is called:  "HELL Part D."  Parts D-1 and D-2 are already posted, and part D-3 should be posted in the next week or so with more parts to follow. Be sure to read them.       

        Yes, the professor did show my material to his class and he also contacted me by email several times. After I totally blew him away with the Scriptures he stopped emailing me.
   
        God be with you,

        Ray
------------------------------------

Found this rather old email that points to Hell Part D as a place where Ray covers this in more detail.  Maybe that will help.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

mharrell08

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Re: Sermon on the Mount
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2009, 01:05:04 AM »

I hope that this doesn't get me kicked off the website.  Yesterday I started going through the book of Matthew and I got to the "Sermon on the Mount" and then…

I hope that it is OK that I ask.  It's not something major.  I'd feel uncomfortable if I didn't deal with it now.  It would make me feel isolated.


Why would you feel that to ask a question would get you 'kicked off the website'? Why assume negative consequences for simply asking a question?

Many people outside of the membership come to the forum for inquisitive purposes. If one of them read your thread, they would wrongly assume that people are banned for simply asking questions. Would they be inclined to join the forum then? Just something to think about...


Marques
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soberxp

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Re: Sermon on the Mount
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2009, 07:11:43 AM »

this forums is so nice,I've never seen before ;D :D
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