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Accountable, responsible
Roy Martin:
For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13).
"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, IS FROM THE LORD" (Prov. 16:1). [Regardless of the proper translation of the first half of this verse, the second half is emphatically] "…FROM THE LORD."
"O Lord, I know that the way of man is NOT IN HIMSELF [not in his will or choice] it is not in man that walks to direct his steps [he is not ‘free’ to choice where he will walk]" (Jer. 10:23).
"Man’s goings [steps] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24).
I've been visiting another forum the last few days, and found it to be very humbling. I got involved in several topics. This forum had believers, and those that don't believe in God at all. Some that have read Rays writings. Anyway, I learned some things about myself. The topic I got more involved in was a discussion about responsible and accountable.I found out that I couldn't explain it at all because I myself still struggle with it. I think that I so much want to that I just except it rather than understanding it. There are times that I just say its one of those things that God just doesn't want me to know, and then as I was re-reading Free Will part 2, I think; I came across the verses above quoted from that series. It seems that these verses nurtures my not understanding even more than before, but on the other hand it seems to put me at the edge of something even bigger, such as a treasure I've been digging for that I thought was in a large chest, but as it turns out for me that this gem might very well be in a small chest in a big field, but a large treasure; if that makes sense to anyone. Well anyway; back to the verses above, and responsible vs. accountability. Doesn't both words mean the same? Since our steps are led by God, then where do we get lust of the heart such as any carnal thought or action or words that we speak. Ray says that we of our own have lust of the heart, but where does that come from since it is God that directs our steps, even this posting I'm doing now, and how am I to understand my own way?
Pastors mislead the flock and the flock follows; all steps directed by God, and they understand not. Isn't trying to expose those that contradict, actually exposing that God is the one in charge of what they are doing? According to the verses above, they don't understand because God is leading their steps, and at the same time leading the steps of those that want to expose them? Is this correct? Am I right or wrong to think that no one can be led astray by man unless that's the steps God wants them to take?
There are times when I'm having thoughts that are very carnal or some sort of action or words that lead me to ask God why am I doing this, or having these thoughts that I can't get rid of. Last night my wife and I was watching a TV serious that has a Gay person on it. He is more feminine than a woman; well I made a comment to Silvia that the least he could do is at least act like a man. This guy literally annoys me to no end, but I don't want to think and feel like that toward anyone.I want to understand, and not judge people like that. Well it was this morning that I found the verses above, and they explained that he can't help the way he is and acts no more than the things that I think and do. Is this not correct? I also want to be in Spirit all the time, and see things, and understand in Spirit, but I come nowhere close, no matter how much I want it.
Can someone explain the difference between responsible and accountable, and why does God, who is responsible for all things including our steps, hold us accountable and punish, or correct which ever is the right word when we are doing what he directs us to do?
I went to a forum of which I have avoided all forums except for this one, because I thought I could be misled into some other belief, but I was wrong to think anyone can mislead me or lead me in the right direction unless that is the step God wants me to take. Isn't that what the verses above are saying?
I can understand being submitted to vanity to humble us and teach us as we are being transformed. Is it that I'm seeing accountability as punishment rather than correction or transformation?
Peace
Roy
Marky Mark:
Roy. Hope this helps some. :)
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
God "created evil" (Isa. 45:7). God does not create things that do not serve a good purpose. By the way, the word translated into "evil" in Isa. 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra, and it is the very same word translated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times as "evil" throughout the Old Testament.
Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
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We have seen that not even Satan can go against God’s intentions. Satan needs permission from God to do his dirty work. Since God is responsible (but not accountable—seeing that nothing He does is without a great and beneficial purpose), God takes responsibility for His whole creation, and that is why everything will turn out perfect for every one of God’s creatures.
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#account
There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.
People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins. They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy. The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF. God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering. Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.
We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS. Think of sin as DIRT. It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.
Sincerely,
Ray
Peace...Mark
soberxp:
ROY
Matthew 7:
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
--- Quote ---AS we know the Genesis , before Adam n Eve eaten forbidden fruit , they just didn't know what's the knowledge of good and evil, can you think of that ,MAT5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
--- End quote ---
figuratively ???6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. ??? figuratively
"dogs n pigs " refers to unbeliever ???
ASK SEEK KNOCK
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?
11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
easy for understanding, if I don't like people tell me :"I don't believe in God at all ." it means I hope that people tells me:"I believe in God." so forget about everything,I just need to say:"I believe in God."
THE NARROW AND WIDE GATES
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Roy Martin:
Hi Mark, Thats some good stuff.
So God basically makes us weak and dirty, since we can do nothing of our own even sin which isn't evil, but yet is part of evil. I mean how can we have one without the other, or separate them into two different meanings, or is it like the structure of a house or vessel that has other components that makes it a house or vessel. Vanity consist of several things. We can't have vanity without evil and sin or lust of the heart, and even the unbeliever who's steps also are directed by God according to scripture. If God didn't create sin, then who did? We can't create anything in ourselves nor change ourselves from one vessel to another. Is there a scripture that says we are accountable, or that we of our own have lust of the heart and act on them?
Peace
Roy
Roy Martin:
Hi Soberxp,
O Lord, I know that the way of man is NOT IN HIMSELF [not in his will or choice] it is not in man that walks to direct his steps [he is not ‘free’ to choice where he will walk]" (Jer. 10:23).
"Man’s goings [steps] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24).
Soberxp, its all just a part of learning and growing, don't you think?
Roy
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